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Topic: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell damage? (Read 1834 times) |
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victoriawatson
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Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell damage?
« on: Sep 11th, 2007, 10:46pm » |
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I was so excited yesterday because I was going to start my O2 therapy....Then I told my sister about it. She replied that she had recently read an article on cell damage caused by pure O2 in a medical journal. (She's a teacher so she has strange reading habits!) So I Googled it and sure enough there is research published recently (May 2007) from UCLA showing that pure oxygen can cause damage in brain cells! Great! Just when I thought there was hope via a "safe" treatment for my clusters!
Any thoughts on this?
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Brew
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #1 on: Sep 11th, 2007, 10:50pm » |
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If you breathe it for about 20 hours straight, sure.
What do you think fighter pilots do? Pure O2 on demand for hours at a time.
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victoriawatson
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #2 on: Sep 11th, 2007, 11:00pm » |
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Hmm...true, in a way. But the pilots aren't wearing the rebreather masks, right? So it would be a mixture of O2 and carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, etc. Plus one of the troubling aspects of the report is that they could actually see damage to the brain cells via MRI within minutes, not hours. I wish I could post the article here, but I'm not that proficient with my computer.
Anyway, I am not going to abandon my O2 therapy, but maybe modify it so I am not breating pure O2, but a mixture of regular air and O2. Hopefully that will still work.
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Kevin_M
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #3 on: Sep 11th, 2007, 11:11pm » |
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on Sep 11th, 2007, 11:00pm, victoriawatson wrote:| Plus one of the troubling aspects of the report is that they could actually see damage to the brain cells via MRI within minutes, not hours. |
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It's that free radical thing I'd guess. But would that timespan be on humans or rats?
Astronaut John Glenn went into outer space at the age 76. I guess I don't worry about it too much.
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nani
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #4 on: Sep 11th, 2007, 11:11pm » |
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on Sep 11th, 2007, 11:00pm, victoriawatson wrote:| so I am not breating pure O2, but a mixture of regular air and O2. Hopefully that will still work. |
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It won't. I spent most of my life damaging brain cells (including damage done with meds), I'm not giving up effective relief for a few more.
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George_J
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #5 on: Sep 11th, 2007, 11:38pm » |
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http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/72299.php
Everything's a trade-off.
I doubt that a CH attack does us much good either.
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Kevin_M
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #6 on: Sep 11th, 2007, 11:53pm » |
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Good find George, I was checking for problems in space travel, she mentioned "cell damage" which is associated with free radicals.
from link provided:
Quote:| "When the children inhaled pure oxygen, their breathing quickened, resulting in the rapid exhalation of carbon dioxide from their bodies," said coauthor Paul Macey, associate researcher in neurobiology. "The drop in carbon dioxide narrowed their blood vessels, preventing oxygen from reaching tissue in the brain and heart." |
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Despite a lot of things otherwise happening, isn't the narrowing of the blood vessels the reason we use it? Too much oxygen and the brain narrows the blood vessels, or something like that.
The point made about tradeoff and CH attack is the decider I guess.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2007, 12:14am by Kevin_M » |
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vietvet2tours
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #7 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 12:13am » |
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on Sep 11th, 2007, 11:00pm, victoriawatson wrote:Hmm...true, in a way. But the pilots aren't wearing the rebreather masks, right? So it would be a mixture of O2 and carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, etc. Plus one of the troubling aspects of the report is that they could actually see damage to the brain cells via MRI within minutes, not hours. I wish I could post the article here, but I'm not that proficient with my computer.
Anyway, I am not going to abandon my O2 therapy, but maybe modify it so I am not breating pure O2, but a mixture of regular air and O2. Hopefully that will still work. |
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You do that ya maroon.
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artonio7
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #8 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 5:27am » |
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Go see a doctor... if you are healthy enough to use o2 as an abort for Cluster Headaches your doctor will tell you. Perhaps he will even give you a perscription for o2.
Before you go to see your doctor, go to this link http://www.ouch-us.org/medications/oxygen/o2info.shtml and read all of the resources available there.
with warm regards,
Tony
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| « Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2007, 4:18pm by artonio7 » |
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tommyD
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #9 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 5:40am » |
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Like Kevin said, the article doesn't seem to be about free radicals, but about reactions in the brain triggered by a lack of carbon dioxide.
It seems the lack of CO2 triggers the hypothlamus to do stuff is doesn't normally do, actually reducing the amount of oxygen reaching the brain, which is a bad thing when you are trying to revive someone or counter an asthma attack. But we are clusterheads, and the hypothalamus is already doing stuff it doesn't normally do.
Note this:
Quote:| "Adding carbon dioxide to the oxygen relaxed the blood vessels, allowed oxygen to reach the heart and brain, calmed the hypothalamus and slowed the release of dangerous chemicals," said Macey. |
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The article is about situations very different from a cluster headache attack - it is about emergency resuscitation, and how to get enough oxygen to the brain in situations where a lack of oxygen could be damaging brain cells.
The experience of clusterheads is that we need as close to 100 percent O2 as possible - less than that reduces its effectiveness. The clustermasx is designed to deliver maximum O2, and that's why it works so well.
The thing that worries me about this study is that techniques for dealing with asthma or other breathing problems will be applied to cluster headaches.
-tommyD
And no one here is a maroon. Or even magenta.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2007, 5:47am by tommyD » |
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Brew
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #10 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 8:24am » |
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on Sep 11th, 2007, 11:00pm, victoriawatson wrote:| But the pilots aren't wearing the rebreather masks, right? So it would be a mixture of O2 and carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, etc. |
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No, fighter pilots have a mask that completely seals around their nose and mouth and is hooked up to what is called a demand regulator. They get as much 100% O2 as they need simply by breathing (in other words, it's not a constant flow, but flows whenever the pilot breathes).
Talk to Batch - he knows.
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Kevin_M
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #11 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 8:45am » |
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on Sep 12th, 2007, 5:40am, tommyD wrote:| The thing that worries me about this study is that techniques for dealing with asthma or other breathing problems will be applied to cluster headaches. |
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Good point.
Quote:Based on their findings, the researchers strongly encourage healthcare providers to add carbon dioxide to oxygen dispensation, especially when resuscitating infants or administering oxygen for more than a few minutes.
Earlier data on high oxygen's harmful effects have already resulted in policy changes overseas. Instead of using straight oxygen, many European hospitals now resuscitate patients with room air, which contains a mixture of nitrogen, oxygen and carbon dioxide; or with a blend of oxygen and carbon dioxide. |
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Which would certainly be ineffective for us.
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George_J
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #12 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 9:14am » |
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A little more poking around. Here's the primary source:
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi= 10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0040173&ct=1
Best,
George
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Ah! The foreigners put on such airs
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The pain they inspire
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Debonair.
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mynm156
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #13 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 2:06pm » |
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Hi I have patients on high amounts of O2 for long periods of time DAYS and for the most part they all seem fine. It bugs me when this type of topic shows up because we never REALLY know the validity or true account of how these conclusions were formed. I can say to you without a doubt that EVERYONE who drank milk in 1812 is dead.
Good Vibes
MYNM156
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Kilowatt3
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #14 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 2:36pm » |
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on Sep 11th, 2007, 11:38pm, George_J wrote:
Everything's a trade-off.
I doubt that a CH attack does us much good either.
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I subscribe to the Norm Peterson theory - The brain cells that are killed by oxygen are the slow and the weak, same as those killed by alcohol.
This actually contributes to the betterment of the herd <G>.
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Ctech
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #15 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 5:59pm » |
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I posted this in the "getting to know ya" section of the board, but I will say it here also...
I just started using 02 this cycle and it is great! I read the same info that you did about the brain cell damage but compared to the other “legal” treatments out there I will take my chances with the 02. Besides, I’m sure I have caused more damage to my brain over the years by banging by head into walls then the 02 will do.
The 02 cut my pain time from 1 to 3 hours down to about 10 to 15 min. in most cases. I just hope it damages the beast along with the brain cells!
-Chris
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barry_sword
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #16 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 7:08pm » |
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Banging my head on a washing machine is a little hard on the brain cells also. 
I am 48, exercise a lot, and use o2 to abort my hits. It works for me and no side effects. I am willing to chance anything if it makes the pain stop.
o2 is my hero, with no outside air, just pure o2.
Barry
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Sean_C
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #17 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 10:19pm » |
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Groov
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #18 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 10:55pm » |
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on Sep 12th, 2007, 7:08pm, barry_sword wrote:Banging my head on a washing machine is a little hard on the brain cells also.
I am 48, exercise a lot, and use o2 to abort my hits. It works for me and no side effects. I am willing to chance anything if it makes the pain stop.
o2 is my hero, with no outside air, just pure o2.
Barry |
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Then what the heck am I doing !!! I went and got a mask from my local Heckman health care store. I told them a "non re-breather" mask like I was told to do.
It has a plastic bag attached to a tube. The way it works is: it fills the bag with pure 02 (I can regulate it) when I breathe, it empties the bag and a one way valve opens up to let in outside air. When you exhale, the exhaled air leaves via the same tube as the additional inhaled air. If it didn't let in extra inhaled air, the bag would collapse and you wouldn't get enough air....that is unless you cranked up the regulator to way past 15 lpm.
I mean, do I have the wrong type? or are y'all saying I should crank up my 02 supply high enough to get pure 02?
Thanks, Dave
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #19 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 11:00pm » |
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Sorry, I forgot to say that it is working for me. Would it work even faster if I did pure 02
I'm gonna guess I have something confused here cause I'm new to this crap. But please advise.
Thanks, Dave
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PARABELLUM
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Sean_C
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #20 on: Sep 12th, 2007, 11:37pm » |
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Hi Dave,
The non rebreather mask has a circle with little holes on the sides, we usually tape those holes so you can't breath the outside air with your o2. However, its VERY important that you remove the elastic strap that holds your mask on your face, in the event you fall asleep after your hit or something, if you don't, you could suffocate if the oxygen bottle empties.
The clustermasx is already geared up for this, its well worth the little money it costs.
Lastly, turn your regulator to a level that keeps the bag half full for you, any more than that is just wasting it.
Cheers,
Sean...............................
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #21 on: Sep 13th, 2007, 12:06am » |
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Ok Sean, I'm gettin it now. Thanks for the clarification. Fortunately I don't need it to sleep. Have only been woke up a few times. I'm going to try more 02 and less outside air. Sounds like y'all have good luck with it. I would think it will help abort even quicker than it is for me now.
One thing is for sure, this site has been a great help to me. Try calling your Doc. for stuff like this. Sure, he will be glad to help for the low low price of $1,000 an hour 
Cheers, Dave
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #22 on: Sep 13th, 2007, 6:34am » |
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I use a Clustermasx at home and when using it I keep it on my face the whole time until the hit subsides, then I keep breathing the o2 for a few minutes afterwards. Some lower the flow rate after the hit which also saves on the o2.
In my car I have a non-rebreather mask and a portable tank. I put my thumb over the small vent to stop outside air but after I inhale I hold for a few seconds then pull the mask away to exhale. I repeat this until the hit backs off.
It was a little awkward at first but it did not take long to get the hang of it. I hope you find success with using o2.
Barry
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Batch
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #23 on: Sep 13th, 2007, 4:18pm » |
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Hey Victoria, Folks,
Just a few things on O2 Therapy and Fighter Pilots...
1. 100% MEDICAL OXYGEN IS COMPLETELY SAFE! USE IT AT FLOW RATES OF 15 TO 25 LPM TO ABORT YOUR CLUSTER HEADACHE ATTACKS.
AT HIGHER FLOW RATES (25 LPM), YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ABORT YOUR ATTACKS AT ALL KIP LEVELS IN A TIME FRAME FROM 5 TO 20 MINUTES. THE TIME TO ABORT WILL BE HIGHER AT 15 LPM.
IF YOU ARE UNFORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE A PRESCRIPTION FOR LESS THAN 15 LPM, OR A REGULATOR ONLY GOOD TO 7 LPM, GO BACK TO YOUR DOCTOR AND GET IT FIXED. 15 LPM IS THE MINIMUM AND 25 LPM IS THE OPTIMUM FOR CONSTANT FLOW O2 REGULATORS.
IN ALL CASES, SEE YOUR DOCTOR FIRST.
2. Brewcrew was 100% on target about oxygen toxicity. You need to be breathing 100% O2 for 18 to 20 hours continuously without a break to start feeling the symptoms of oxygen toxicity. I doubt any of you have the O2 cylinders on hand to pull that dumb stunt...
3. All Navy and Marine Corps pilots that fly tactical aircraft (not transports or helo's) have been breathing 100% oxygen from takeoff to touchdown for over 60 years on missions lasting 2 to 7 hours in duration... The US Navy considers this practice very safe. After all, it takes over $1 million dollars to train a Naval Aviator today, and then the Navy gives them a jet costing well over $30 million dollars to fly around to protect us, then land on an aircraft carrier day and night... I don't think they would be so foolish to knowingly take a risk on that investment if breathing 100% oxygen was not completely SAFE!!!
4. The oxygen mini-regulators Navy and Marine Corps pilots use provide them with 100% O2 with a slight positive pressure ~ 2 to 5 inches water pressure depending on the cabin altitude. Other than that, they operate very much the same as the demand valve that EMTs use or a SCUBA regulator. There is NO dilution of the 100% O2 or mixing of exhaled breath containing CO2 or ambient air with a Navy mini-regulator or EMT demand valve.
5. Ozone (O3) IS a very different animal. It is very reactive and easily disassociates to O2 and a single atom of Oxygen (O) called a free radical. Ozone is not good for us although there are some that pump it up their backsides (colonics) to clean their odiferous bowels.
100% Medical Oxygen is as pure and free of Ozone as chemically possible.
Victoria, you can also Google any one of over a 100 articles written in the last few years by Neurologist, Pulmonologists, Scientific Researchers, and Respiratory Therapists, or even the Naval Flight Surgeon’s Manual, that will tell you Oxygen Therapy for Cluster Headaches is safe and that breathing 100% Oxygen at one atmosphere (1 ATA) is safe. If you’re going to go looking for an answer to your questions on the Internet, pull down a bunch of them to make sure you get a consensus in order to be better informed…
Finally... If you've ever wondered what "FOX 2" and "CHECK SIX" meant under my logo at the left of my posts, I'll tell you. "FOX 2" is a transmission that fighter pilots make over their radios when they shoot a heat seeking Sidewinder Missile at a hostile target. They make this transmission to other aircraft in their flight to let them know they're shooting at a bad guy. "CHECK SIX" is another fighter pilot radio transmission they make. If you hear "CHECK SIX" directed at you, it means someone in your flight spotted a hostile bad guy sneaking up on you from behind or your 6 O’clock position.
In a training environment where you and a member of your squadron or a friendly simulating a hostile adversary get into a dog fight (air combat training maneuvers against similar or dissimilar aircraft), and you manage to beat them with superior tactics and airmanship, and you saddle up at their Six O’clock position within gun range... You make the radio transmission "FOX 2 - CHECK SIX." That transmission will let them know that a simulated Sidewinder is about to fly up their tail pipe, and when they turn and see you... They know they're toast.
So you say, "What's this all about..."
This is the United States of America, land of the free and home of the brave. We have this thing called the First Amendment that lets you say almost anything. People can say what ever they want here on the boards and I am perfectly comfortable with that.
That is unless they're the scumbag communists at Moveon.org and they take a cheap and un-American shot at guy like General Petraeus, who is trying to keep us safe from some very evil animals that pray to die in order to kill us.
OR, until one of us says anything that would scare or prevent another one of us from using the most effective and least expensive cluster headache abortives available to us, Oxygen Therapy... THEN START CHECKING SIX… I'll be down in the weeds or up in the sun, you'll never know where, and I'll come gunning for you with a verbal sidewinder... So when you hear "FOX 2" "Fight's On" it’s likely to be me.
By the way... If I slip up and say something that screws the pooch, or offends one of you unduly, I'll expect the same treatment...
V/R, Batch
An old Fighter Pilot,
an older Chemist,
and, your friendly OUCH O2 Pusher
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Re: Anyone heard that pure oxygen causes cell dama
« Reply #24 on: Sep 13th, 2007, 4:33pm » |
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KERAP!! Batch got here before I did!
Listen to what he says!
Also, please remember, there are plenty of "doctors" out there looking to get a name for themselves. They are human beings, too. And there ARE some bad apples in their midst, just like in the "non-doctoral" population. You give them money, and they will say ANYTHING you want them to say!
OXYGEN IS SAFE!
Chuck
Loading up the AK-47, packing extra ammo, and I'm gonna go find this ba$tard ... OOOPPPSS!!! I guess that is not the politically correct thing to say ...
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