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youngmichael
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psilocybin theory
« on: Oct 3rd, 2006, 7:23pm » |
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Okay, so not much is known about why cluster headaches seem to be aborted and even prevented with psilocybin and other indole ring halucinogens.....so let me offer up a theory, and pose a question. Please understand, before I begin, that I want a cure...period.
So what I am suggesting is that the curative effects of psilocybin may in fact be caused by something other than a chemical process. During my last cycle at about this time last year I took two doses of psilocybin, and there was a marked change in my headaches. They didn't go right away...but it was the shortest cycle in the last 6 years. This could have been a result of any number of things, so I'm not totally convinced that the cycle was aborted due to the drugs.
After the initial 2 small doses, I dosed again.....let's call this one a "BIG" dose. I have to admit, these were partially for my impending cycle and also out of a growing curiosity with the "other benefits" I experienced.
With my 3rd experience, I took 7 dried grams in the privacy of my home....alone with nothing but my thoughts to keep me company. It was the single most incredible and scary experience of my life, and I was utterly changed forever. I realised on an experiential level the way in which I had been attaching to the material world and suffering because of it.....it was akin to Kensho in zen i think, an awakening. Psilocybin has a way of stripping the ego away for a time it seems. According to Mckenna, "psycadelics force the maturation process by disolving boundaries", and I believe that is exactly what happened.
So, what if this kind of maturation heals the body. Deepak Chopra says, "You can free yourself from aging by reinterpreting your body and by grasping the link between belief and biology". Is it a stretch to say that a person that loves their life and feels great is going to live more healthfully...possibly free of clusters?
Lately I have been meditating almost daily, and I feel so calm and at peace as a result.......and I've been thinking. I really wonder if any clusterheads meditate daily. So, if anyone out there does meditate every day and still suffers from clusters, I would really be interested to hear from you. The reason I ask is that it appears to me like psilocybin and meditation are both good at stripping the ego and dealing with the "true self". If my theory about psychadelics is at all right it would make sense that meditation would help as well.
Thanks for reading. I hope to hear from anyone who has anything to add. 
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vig
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #1 on: Oct 3rd, 2006, 7:55pm » |
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as long as it's working, GREAT!!!!
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| « Last Edit: Oct 3rd, 2006, 7:56pm by vig » |
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Redd
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #2 on: Oct 3rd, 2006, 9:36pm » |
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I'll have to say, that the last year has been a rough raod for me with this therapy. Not sure if it has been just a particularly bad CH year, or if my timing has been off on my doses. No one ever really knows. I had a very welcome streach of 20 days PF, and I antisipate more after this recent dose.
Clusterbusters was and is the only method that has given me any measureable freedom from this hell, without the side effects of mainstreem meds.
Please keep us posted.
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I saw an act of faith today. A man was on his knees, not in a pew in a Church, but in a garden planting seeds. ~~Unknown
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BB
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #4 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 8:09am » |
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With psychedelic effects of chemicals such as psilocybin or LSD ( same chemical structures ) the outcomes depend a lot of how stable and already mature the person using it is. Using it the wrong way or in an unstable person can cause disastrous effects.
Triptans, Sansert, Deseril, Ergotamins, Dihydergot etc ... were all derivatives from LSD which was accidentally found by Dr Albert Hoffmann in 1938.
LSD was used extensively in the medical field in the 50s and 60s to treat all sorts of medical illnesses from schizophrenia to bipolar with a lot of success. However, in the hands of Dr Tim Leary, it was slowly turned into a drug of abuse which saw Dr Leary being bannished from a professor position and stripped of his medical registration.
LSD was then outlawed as its psychedelic effects were getting out of hand when used by the wrong person.
The effects were found to be profoundly "soul finding" to some and lead to a better life, yet could cause manic episodes and suicides in others.
There seems to be some links between conditions such as bipolar, schizophrenia and clusters as medications for one appear to work for another. Yet no one knows exactly how they work.
It may be related to the functions of the hypothalamus which controls many hormones and neurotransmitters, many of those are involved in creating and maintaining human emotions such as adrenaline, dopamine, serotonin and melatonin.
In clusters, apart from the anatomical effects such as droopy eyelid and trigeminal pain, there are more subtled changes in the sufferers bodily functions including appetite, sleeping patterns and even emotions.
The changes in emotions are more subtled, ranging from depression to anxiety to anger to frustration ..., and I believe that not all the changes are related purely to pain or lack of sleep.
There is evidence to actual personality changes in a cluster person especially during a cycle. What I have noticed and observed is that how much or how big is this change depends on how mature and emotionally stable the person is normally outside of cluster.
Extremely interesting areas for research and the searches continue...
Annette
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Bob P
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #5 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 9:48am » |
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Quote:| Triptans (sumatriptan, zolmatriptan, etc.) are synthesized indole-ring compounds very similar to psilocybin, but with the hallucinogenic inducing effects stripped out. That's why triptans can abort a CH attack but not a CH episode or chronic CH condition. |
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So we have discovered that the hallucinogenic part of the compund is what aborts cycles?
Quote:| Triptans, Sansert, Deseril, Ergotamins, Dihydergot etc ... were all derivatives from LSD which was accidentally found by Dr Albert Hoffmann in 1938. |
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Ergotamine isn't a derivative of LSD. Ergotamine was first formulated in 1918 by A. Stoll.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2006, 9:55am by Bob P » |
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kcopelin
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #6 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 10:12am » |
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Youngmichael,
Never stop questioning,probing, there are mysteries unfound still.
Your question seemed to be: "Do any clusterheads meditate daily and yet still suffer?"
I pray deeply everyday. Having practiced meditation in the past, I can tell you that the prayer state is even deeper. Have been having my daily time with God for a few years. Some days I get distraced by waves and wind and the voices of all who "need" me, but mostly, I go to that place where my full relaxed focus is on the One who created me. This is not the "thanks for this food Lord" hastily muttered before eating.
So I reach the state induced by meditation through prayer daily. Now the second, and more difficult, part of your question. "and still suffer".
I do not suffer. I have chronic CHs that are daily-with no pain free days in months (19). But I choose not to suffer. Not anymore. Nor am I some passive victim of my biology. I have a dodgy hypothalumus but God didn't put me here to wallow in that, He doesn't make mistakes. So, I am a victor. Everyday I deal with this condition, and still get something done that makes even one person smile, that inspires, encourages, that strengthens, that educates, that brings glory to God-that is a good day. And every day that I've spent too much time sucking O2, or complaining about my pain, and bringing worry and stress to the ones I love...well there's always tomorrow, there's always grace and there is always forgiveness and there is always faith.
Hope this addressed at least part of your question.
Be well my friends, and don't forget the miracles all around you.
PFDAN
kathy
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BB
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #7 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 10:41am » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 9:48am, Bob P wrote:
Ergotamine isn't a derivative of LSD. Ergotamine was first formulated in 1918 by A. Stoll. |
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Thank you very much , my mistake.
Ergotamine is from ergot, and LSD is also from ergot, which is a fungus grown on rye.
Annette
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BB
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #8 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 10:44am » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 10:12am, kcopelin wrote:
So, I am a victor. Everyday I deal with this condition, and still get something done that makes even one person smile, that inspires, encourages, that strengthens, that educates, that brings glory to God-that is a good day. And every day that I've spent too much time sucking O2, or complaining about my pain, and bringing worry and stress to the ones I love...well there's always tomorrow, there's always grace and there is always forgiveness and there is always faith.
PFDAN
kathy |
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That is absolutely beautiful Kathy ! Love it ! 
Annette
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rickyshot
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #9 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 2:28pm » |
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What a great thread. I find it profound. I too use seeds and shrooms and for the first time have hope. This cycle has been completely different and short with little hits that were taken care of quickly.
I would not use 7 grams I am too chicken but on a difficult day I ate a 5 gram chocolate shroom and did not have any effects whatsoever except the pain dissolved and it has been five days since with no ch but a minor migraine in my ear. I suffer chronic complicated migraines and they are harder to bust than the ch for me but they are responding to the LSD.
I pray daily and have faith in God. Why I am not 'healed" I don't know but HIs grace is sufficient for me. I quote that scripture a lot when in cycle and the one Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.
When I was young I never thought I would be taking LSD for sure. Never say never. I never used any illegal drug of any kind. I won't get into the diatribe and politrics of drugs , economy, ethics and legalities but suffice to say God created everything and there are medicinal purposes for every herb etc. Yes some could be dangerous in the wrong hands and abused but there will always be a population who will abuse anything for a high or other purposes. You can't throw out the baby with the bathwater. I do believe answers are out there. There are answers for everything but sometimes we don't like the fact we have to do the work. We want a quick fix.
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BikerBob
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #10 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 4:09pm » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 8:09am, Annette wrote:
Using it the wrong way or in an unstable person can cause disastrous effects.
The effects were found to be profoundly "soul finding" to some and lead to a better life, yet could cause manic episodes and suicides in others.
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What is your source on information about disastrous effects and suicides related to LSD? I've read that of the tens of thousands of people who have used LSD, there has been one death, a suicide at Esalen in the 1960s.
BB
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seasonalboomer
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #11 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 4:13pm » |
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you guys are going to confuse me if you get into an argument.
BB will be posting and signing as Annette, her quotes will appear to be from Annette but being argued against by BB, or BikerBob.........
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Margi
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #12 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 4:14pm » |
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THANK you Scott!! I thought I was the only one scratching my head here. First we have two Kings of Pain, now we've got two BB's. What next? Two Jonny's?
I think you're pretty safe with 'seasonalbloomer' though...I gotta tell ya, that's a weird ass name, man - I doubt there would ever be two people who could come up with it. 
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| « Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2006, 4:14pm by Margi » |
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kathy copelin, ch.com 8/8/06
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BikerBob
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #13 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 4:21pm » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 4:13pm, seasonalboomer wrote:you guys are going to confuse me if you get into an argument.
BB will be posting and signing as Annette, her quotes will appear to be from Annette but being argued against by BB, or BikerBob......... |
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Get used to it. I was BB first and won't change my signature because several parts of clusterbusters.com were written by and attributed to BB (BikerBob).
BB
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youngmichael
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #14 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 4:28pm » |
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Thank you all for your responses.
Redd715: That's very true. I mean, I only took meds once and the side effects were so bad that I swore I wouldn't do it again. With psilocybin, and possiblely these other hallucinogens, there are minimal if any side effects what-so-ever at the sub dose. That's pretty amazing if you ask me.
Biker Bob: It makes a lot of sense to me that it would be a combination.....which makes me think that we have an astounding argument for more research.
By the way, those links were great. I would like to see the full documentary.
Kathy: I really appreciate your post. It is so inspiring to hear from someone with CH who is so optimistic and empowered. Thank you so much.
Oh and the prayer, that's great. If anyone else does, please post. I didn't think of it at the time, but i think it is very relevant to my question.
Thanks all.
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Jonny
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #15 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 4:30pm » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 4:14pm, Margi wrote:
I can assure you that will never ever happen....LOL 
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Margi
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #16 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 4:33pm » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 4:30pm, Jonny wrote:
I can assure you that will never ever happen....LOL
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LMAO I'm betting you're right.
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And, on the Eighth Day...God created Beer (to stop the Canadians from taking over the world)
source unknown
IMHO (which in my universe is correct)
kathy copelin, ch.com 8/8/06
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Jonny
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #17 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 4:39pm » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 4:33pm, Margi wrote:
LMAO I'm betting you're right. |
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I figured you would say "Thank God, ones enough"....LOL
Sorry for the highjack, folks....Carry on
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Margi
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #18 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 4:48pm » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 4:39pm, Jonny wrote:
I figured you would say "Thank God, ones enough"....LOL
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LOL Isn't the backspace key a wonderful thing? 
You're right - sorry for the hijack - couldn't resist ragging on Jonny.
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And, on the Eighth Day...God created Beer (to stop the Canadians from taking over the world)
source unknown
IMHO (which in my universe is correct)
kathy copelin, ch.com 8/8/06
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thebbz
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #19 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 9:10pm » |
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You all can dig this. My name is John Bebee. I have signed off as BB. I have done this my whole life. I changed it to jb out of respect for my friend Biker Bob. BB is my name. Now for the first name, John,Johnny,Jonny. One is enough. 
And now back to your positions.
jb
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BB
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #20 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 9:56pm » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 4:09pm, BikerBob wrote:
What is your source on information about disastrous effects and suicides related to LSD? I've read that of the tens of thousands of people who have used LSD, there has been one death, a suicide at Esalen in the 1960s.
BB
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Hi BikerBob,
The source is from the publication " LSD - my problem child " by Dr Hoffmann.
Regarding suicide, I believe that there has been only one reported as directely caused by LSD. The main problem with LSD causing it to be banned was that it became an abused hallucinogen with deemed dangerous psychotic effects.
Regarding the name, I have always signed as Annette and not BB. When I registered, the user name BB was available.
Bob and I are not having an arguement, Bob is just trying to make my posts more clear and accurate, for which I thank him very much.
Annette
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BikerBob
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #21 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 10:58pm » |
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Hi Annette,
I read Hoffman's book too. First you say LSD causes disastrous effects and suicides, then you agree with me that there has only been one. Now you say LSD has "deemed dangerous psychotic effects". What is your evidence of dangerous psychotic effects and what percentage of LSD users experience them?
Some of your comments remind me of the 1936 film Reefer Madness...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness
BB
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Jonny
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #22 on: Oct 4th, 2006, 11:03pm » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 10:58pm, BikerBob wrote:| Now you say LSD has "deemed dangerous psychotic effects". |
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It dont?
Wheres your proof it dont?
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #23 on: Oct 5th, 2006, 2:01am » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 11:03pm, Jonny wrote:
Wheres your proof it dont?
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I was going to say, all the ex-hippies from the 60s that are now running giant corporations, or in politics.....and then figured those aren't very good references 
BoB
BTW< Ricky...just so not to confuse.....LSD and psilocybin from mushrooms, although both psychedelics, are not the same thing. Similar, but different.
Happy to hear of your (and the other's) recent success.
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BB
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Re: psilocybin theory
« Reply #24 on: Oct 5th, 2006, 2:17am » |
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on Oct 4th, 2006, 10:58pm, BikerBob wrote:Hi Annette,
I read Hoffman's book too. First you say LSD causes disastrous effects and suicides, then you agree with me that there has only been one. Now you say LSD has "deemed dangerous psychotic effects". What is your evidence of dangerous psychotic effects and what percentage of LSD users experience them?
Some of your comments remind me of the 1936 film Reefer Madness...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness
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Hi BikerBob
You have read Hoffmans book and you dont think that LSD has disatrous psychotic effects if used in the wrong way by the wrong hand ?
Are you saying that LSD is a safe drug to be used by all?
You are entitled to whatever point of view you so choose and I respect that. My view is that LSD is an amazing substance with a lot of potentials but it can cause a lot of damage if used wrongly for the wrong reasons.
This the link to Hoffmans book :
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/child.htm
Anyone interested may read and decide for themselves.
Painfree wishes to all.
Annette
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