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E-Double
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Triptans and heart conditions
« on: Aug 15th, 2006, 12:52pm » |
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It seems to me that we in the US are told not to use triptans if there is a heart condition or if we are predisposed.
However, those across the sea such as Svenn who does have a heart condition has been told by his doctors and the HA gurus in Norway that it is actually ok and that it does not appear to be s dangerous as everyone deems.
We know that triptans are potent vasoconstrictors thus we get relief and it seems logical that if one has cardiac problems that one should avoid such a medication.
I wonder if the differing opinions or suggestions regarding the usage of [triptans] is because of the fact that we in the USA live in such a Letigous Society or do they know something that American docs do not.
What's your opininon?
E
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| « Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2006, 1:53pm by E-Double » |
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The mad viking
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #1 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 1:42pm » |
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Well how should i start
I dont think i have said that triptans is NOT bad for your heart if you have a heartfailure
But what i have said is that it SEEMS that the neuroes over here at least believes that the triptans is NOT that bad for the heart as first expected back in the early 90s when imitrex was released.
As of today i still use up to 8 shots of trex a day if needed,and im still here"At least i think so" 
My firstline defence is O2 and if that wont kick in its trex-shots and if that wont help its up to 5 shots of morphine a day.When i am at this stage im in zoombieland.
All this my doc and neuro knows
Svenn
I like also to add that i believe strongly that the docs in US are more scared of lawsuits then willing to think new and help you.Just a feeling i have from the two dreamtours i have had to the US and from what you have told me
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| « Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2006, 5:16pm by The mad viking » |
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Sandy_C
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #2 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 1:52pm » |
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Being in a Litigous society has never crossed my mind and has no bearing with regard to triptans.
My father died at 42 with a massive heart attack, undiagnosed prior to his death, even with a full physical less than three weeks prior (and he was an athlete). Both of my grandfathers died of heart attacks. Both grandmothers died of strokes. My mother had a stroke at age 50 (post operative blood clot). Two aunts died of strokes (not post-OP). I guess this might make me predisposed.
I'm 60 years old, I smoke, I drink alcohol moderately, and I have trex in my stash for CH. It is possibly (verdict is still out right now) that I'm beginning a new cycle. That trex is going to stay right where it is.
So, in answer to your question - until it is PROVEN to me that triptans will have no adverse effect on my heart, no possibility of causing strokes, blood clots, I choose not to use them. That's why, if I am going in to cycle, I'm trying rc seeds, ice/water, Red Bull, coffee, Melatonin, and 02.
That's my battle plan, for good or for bad. The jury is out right now.
Sandy
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The mad viking
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #3 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 2:17pm » |
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What i can add to this thread is that i have been told by 2 professors of neurologi that there is a swed living in the Gothenburg area that is prescribed 32 THIRTITWO shots of trex on daily bases
Svenn
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| « Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2006, 2:25pm by The mad viking » |
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seasonalboomer
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #4 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 2:23pm » |
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on Aug 15th, 2006, 2:17pm, The mad viking wrote:What i can add to this thread is that i have been told by 2 professors of neurologi that there is a swed living in the Gothenburg area that is prescribed 32 THIRTITWO shots of trex on daily bases
Svenn |
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Holy smokes. While the actual feeling from the trex is not at all like an orgasm, the feeling afterword is kind of like that post orgasmic rush, I can't imagine feeling that 32 times a day. Whew!
(or is that more information than anyone wanted to know about my trex experience?)
Scott
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Margi
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #5 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 3:46pm » |
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on Aug 15th, 2006, 2:23pm, seasonalboomer wrote:
(or is that more information than anyone wanted to know about my trex experience?)
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lil bit, yep.
Although Woody Allen's "Sleeper" does come to mind...
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pattik
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #6 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 5:03pm » |
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on Aug 15th, 2006, 3:46pm, Margi wrote:
lil bit, yep.
Although Woody Allen's "Sleeper" does come to mind... |
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What...the orgasmatron.. 
edited to add: I don't think it's as much about litigation as maybe the differences between our government overseers of the drug companies. Although based on what I have been reading lately about drug company influences at the FDA, that could be changing.
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| « Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2006, 5:14pm by pattik » |
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Sandy_C
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #7 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 5:54pm » |
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Actually, it may have more to do with our damned insurance companies, who don't want to pay for it.
Sandy
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rickyshot
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #8 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 7:19pm » |
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Yea insurance companies and lawyers the deadly twins and the bane of medical practice in the US. OK I am not a doctor but 32 shots of any medication sounds nutz to me and I can't help thinking problems down the line are coming to this poor individual. Trex sometimes works for me and sometimes not and I always have the hangover and feel kind of shitty afterwards. To boot I think they prolong the cycle. A catch 22 There is heart disease all over my family almost exclusively and I chose to bust as well.
Hey Sandy Keep a diary I am interested in your experience too especially since you are going into cyle.
Shit some people get orgasms I get the hangover. What is wrong with this picture?
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kissmyglass
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #9 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 7:23pm » |
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[quote author=rickyshot link=board=meds;num=1155660739;start=0#8 date=08/15/06 at 19:19:37
Shit some people get orgasms I get the hangover. What is wrong with this picture? [/quote]
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unsolved1
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #10 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 7:38pm » |
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Imitrex is not as dangerous as we once believed. I also use mulitple shots a day if needed. The most I've had in a 24 hour period is 10 shots (3 - 4 mg each shot ). If I needed 32 shots a day ... I wouldn't make it long.
Those with serious heart related probelms should still probably avoid Imitrex. IMO
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lionsound
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #11 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 8:46pm » |
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Ambulance chasers aside.....
I think we also need to consider that here in the USA we have a larger population, than in a single European country, from which to draw a larger more genetically diverse sample of triptan users. (or mis-users for that matter)
So maybe in the USA the risk for heart attack could be higher due to a broader sample, genetic predisposition, or by the more unhealthy lifestyle that we tend to live in the first place.
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| « Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2006, 8:49pm by lionsound » |
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Paul98
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #12 on: Aug 15th, 2006, 9:34pm » |
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I can see a Dr. not writing a script for trex for a patient with a heart condition. The patient may do fine with a "good" shot but if the patient were to nick a blood vessle, I can easily see it killing them.
Two summers ago I nicked a vessle and thought my time on this earth was up. My heart was sputtering and flopping like a fish on the deck of a boat. My BP is normally low and my ticker is in great shape and if a bad trex shot gave me that reaction, I could see it killing someone with corranary/heart conditions.
-P.
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chopmyheadoff
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #13 on: Aug 16th, 2006, 3:56am » |
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32 shots of imitrex ???
imagine the monthly bill for that !!
in the uk (if we had to pay) its £150 for a 6pack refil
its £800 PER DAY
i have a hard time believing that
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Bob_Johnson
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #14 on: Aug 16th, 2006, 8:36am » |
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Title: Triptan safety--latest statement
Post by Bob_Johnson on Jun 1st, 2004, 9:47am
------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------
Since this is a report on medications and not on the condition being treated, I believe it would be O.K. to apply these findings to folks with Cluster. NOTE: there are no comments about using triptans at the high/multiple dosing which is often done by cluster patients. (Treat everything below the line as a quotation. These are selected para. from the total report.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------
Consensus Statement: Cardiovascular Safety Profile of Triptans (5-HT1B/1D Agonists) in the Acute Treatment of Migraine
Headache 44(5):414-425, 2004.
Posted 05/25/2004
Abstract
Background: Health care providers frequently cite concerns about cardiovascular safety of the triptans as a barrier to their use. In 2002, the American Headache Society convened the Triptan Cardiovascular Safety Expert Panel to evaluate the evidence on triptan-associated cardiovascular risk and to formulate consensus recommendations for making informed decisions for their use in patients with migraine.
Objective: To summarize the evidence reviewed by the Triptan Cardiovascular Safety Expert Panel and their recommendations for the use of triptans in clinical practice.
Participants: The Triptan Cardiovascular Safety Expert Panel was composed of a multidisciplinary group of experts in neurology, primary care, cardiology, pharmacology, women's health, and epidemiology.
Evidence and Consensus Process: An exhaustive search of the relevant published literature was reviewed by each panel member in preparation for an open roundtable meeting. Pertinent issues (eg, cardiovascular pharmacology of triptans, epidemiology of cardiovascular disease, cardiovascular risk assessment, migraine) were presented as a prelude to group discussion and formulation of consensus conclusions and recommendations. Follow-up meetings were held by telephone.
Conclusions: (1) Most of the data on triptans are derived from patients without known coronary artery disease. (2) Chest symptoms occurring during use of triptans are generally nonserious and are not explained by ischemia. (3) The incidence of serious cardiovascular events with triptans in both clinical trials and clinical practice appears to be extremely low. (4) The cardiovascular risk-benefit profile of triptans favors their use in the absence of contraindications.
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These data should be interpreted in view of characteristics of the patient population in migraine clinical trials. Generally, controlled clinical trials with triptans excluded patients with cardiovascular risk factors including known ischemic heart disease, symptoms or signs consistent with ischemic heart disease, cardiac arrhythmias requiring medication, and supine diastolic blood pressure >95 mm Hg and/or systolic blood pressure >160 mm Hg. Thus, the clinical trials data cannot be generalized to migraine sufferers with cardiovascular risk factors.
Triptans are associated with a modestly elevated incidence of chest symptoms (ie, triptan sensations) relative to placebo in well-controlled clinical trials that excluded patients with significant cardiac risk factors or known ischemic heart disease. The chest symptoms in clinical trials were generally transient, mild, and nonserious.
Given the widespread use of triptans, the risk of serious cardiovascular adverse events during postmarketing surveillance appears to be very low. While the risk of a serious cardiovascular event during triptan use appears to be very small, it cannot be dismissed. Serious cardiovascular events, some of which resulted in death, have been reported in association with triptans during postmarketing surveillance. The causal association of triptan use with serious cardiovascular adverse events is difficult to determine based on the postmarketing surveillance data alone.
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The mad viking
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Re: Triptans and heart conditions
« Reply #15 on: Aug 16th, 2006, 11:54am » |
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on Aug 16th, 2006, 3:56am, chopmyheadoff wrote:32 shots of imitrex ???
imagine the monthly bill for that !!
in the uk (if we had to pay) its £150 for a 6pack refil
its £800 PER DAY
i have a hard time believing that |
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Yess i know it sounds strange but i have NO REASON WHAT SO EVER to lie to anyone here
I am only refering to what the professors told in a public meeting for Clusterheads in Oslo
Either can i see no reason for the 2 proffesors of neurology to tell a lie like that in public
Just my 2 cents worth
Svenn
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