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Topic: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please (Read 2280 times) |
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jenrob2006
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Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« on: Jul 7th, 2006, 8:36am » |
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After reading all of the success stories about these two supplements, I went to the health food store last night and bought them. The lady there tried to sell me all sorts of stuff including something called Feverfew. I've never heard of that and I have been on herbal regiments before.
I took one melatonin before bed, along with my 480 mg of Verapamil, but decided to wait on the taurine until today. I had a miserable night. I got one hour of sleep. I have been getting one to two hits a night. But last night was constant. Everytime it would leave I would fall asleep and wake up a half hour later back where I started.
How much of each am I suppossed to take? I am currently on 480 mg of Verapamil, just finished the prednisone, O2 and Imitrex injections. I am encouraged my what I have been reading but discouraged over last night's visits. Please, any advice is appreciated.
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E-Double
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #1 on: Jul 7th, 2006, 9:16am » |
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As far as melatonin, many of us have found success when using anywhere from 6-12 mg about 30-45 minutes prior to bed.
My magic number was 9mg.
Thomas always suggested using a mix of regular and extended released melatonin (i think) since it also provided more of a natural sleep.
I have not tried taurine.
Feverfew is commonly recommended for migraine.
Good luck.
Also when many of us start melatonin much like beginning anythng else, our cluster wlrd is thrown for a loop and sometimes appears worse prior to getting substantially better
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George_J
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #2 on: Jul 7th, 2006, 9:23am » |
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'Morning, Jenrob.
As far as the feverfew goes, I tried it years ago. Even raised it in the garden so I could chew the fresh leaves. Some people even mix it into salads. Didn't do anything in my experience, but according to what I've heard, I think it's supposed to be more efficacious for migraine than anything else.
I use melatonin (one of the few things I do use that could be construed as meds, but I take 9 mg, not 3.)
Can't speak to the interaction between prednisone, Verapamil, and/or taurine, and I don't know what that might do. What I suspect (and this is just a suspicion, mind you) is that you're somewhere near the middle of your cycle, and there's not much that works then to avoid the H/A's breaking through--prescription or non-prescription.
Sorry you had a bad night. Wishing you better days ahead.
Regards,
George
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kcopelin
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #3 on: Jul 7th, 2006, 10:14am » |
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Hey...when I started melatonin got hit the first night pretty bad-then I upped the dosage to 9 mg and added 50 mg of Benadryl. Viola! It worked for me. And, is still working. I take my verap in the am, and tried feverfew many years ago-its a migraine herb that seemed to do nothing for me. Have you tried kudzu yet? And please let us know how the taurine supplements work for you-I drink a couple of energy drinks a day and the supplements sure are cheaper-
Praying for dome PF time for you,
Kathy
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jenrob2006
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #4 on: Jul 7th, 2006, 1:55pm » |
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Thanks, I am going to try 9mg of the melatonin tonight, but does anyone know how much of the taurine has been helpful?
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Beastfodder
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #5 on: Jul 7th, 2006, 4:11pm » |
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For those who have alcohol as a trigger I apologise in advance. Just saw that researchers in Italy found high levels of melatonin in red wine.
Certainly explains why you the more have the deeper you seem to sleep?
http://www.decanter.com/news/88311.html
The research will be published in the Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, but has been met with some scepticism by other boffins, including Richard Wurtman of the brain and cognitive science department at MIT.
Wurtman told Chemistry & Industry magazine that further research is needed to determine whether the compounds discovered are melatonin, or something very similar.
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #6 on: Jul 8th, 2006, 12:49am » |
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on Jul 7th, 2006, 1:55pm, jenrob2006 wrote:| Thanks, I am going to try 9mg of the melatonin tonight, but does anyone know how much of the taurine has been helpful? |
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Sorry, I dont know much about the taurine, but with regard to the melatonin, you might wanna try to mix it with 50mg of benadryl too.
And something that is very important to me: take the sleep cocktail on an empty stomach. I generally skip dinner, or eat it so late I can take the sleep aids just before I eat. If your stomach is empty, the drugs absorb quickly into your system, and they leave your system quickly too. If you have a bunch of food in your stomach, the pills take a much longer time to kick in and then a much longer time to leave your system....making it tough to wake up.
When I take the sleep aids on an empty stomach 8 to 9 hours before I need to wake up, I pop out of bed before the alarm even goes off.
Its pretty amazing stuff
GL and PF wishes
BMonee
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jenrob2006
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #7 on: Jul 8th, 2006, 8:24am » |
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Well, I took 9mg of the Melatonin last night along with my Verapamil, no taurine. I slept throught the night.  What a wonderful thing. It is the first full night of sleep I have had since I cant remember. But this morning I am very groggy and I have a never ending shadow. I think I am going to try a cup of coffee for both reasons. Thanks for the tip about the empty stomach. I will have to try that.
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ShaneM
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #8 on: Jul 8th, 2006, 8:26am » |
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Jenrob,
Please, don't give up on the Melatonin yet... It took me a couple days. My Doc had just returned from some big HA conference where Goadsby and another top Doc had spoken about the benefits of Melatonin in CH and he suggested that I even raise the current amount that I was taking (9mg) and start on 12mg. If I did not see improvement in a few days then raise it by 3mg. As soon as I went to 12 I was sleepin like a babe. Mind you, I am on the same RX that you have described yourself being on (even amounts). I have read others here taking as much as 18mg of Mel before finding relief. And Doc insist that is a hormone that we make anyway.
I have read other postings here about individuals doing taurine trails in pill form. You may want to check that out. Seems that I remember seeing them using like 5000mg a day. Also, most of the energy drinks (RedBull, etc.) have 1000mg of taurine in them. I slammed one when I was having a hard shadow not long ago and it seemed to work. Didn't really care for the taste though. I am an espresso man myself and for the price...they are pretty much equal.
Hope ya get some sleep soon.
Shane
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ShaneM
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #9 on: Jul 8th, 2006, 8:27am » |
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The groogy feeling should go away too.
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godsjoy777
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #10 on: Jul 8th, 2006, 9:30am » |
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I have just started taking taurine supplements as well.....and keep some Monster drinks on hand these days....If I have my oxygen and it is a daytime hit....I try both.....and the jury is out on the supplements.....I think it just takes some time for things to start working in your system.....I'm on 9mgs of meletonin too and think I might raise that amt too.....getting hit pretty concictently.....and last week I had a couple of hits that even the oxygen didn't work on.......whoa! That was a rude awakening.....In the meantime I pray....Still hopeing against hope (like Abraham did) that I will get my healing....even after 16 years of this....Take that devil!
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E-Double
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #11 on: Jul 8th, 2006, 9:40am » |
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on Jul 8th, 2006, 8:24am, jenrob2006 wrote:| Well, I took 9mg of the Melatonin last night along with my Verapamil, no taurine. I slept throught the night. What a wonderful thing. It is the first full night of sleep I have had since I cant remember. But this morning I am very groggy and I have a never ending shadow. I think I am going to try a cup of coffee for both reasons. Thanks for the tip about the empty stomach. I will have to try that. |
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Very common.
You'll get used to it and things will be better.
Sleep is good huh 
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Garys_Girl
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #12 on: Jul 8th, 2006, 10:33am » |
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If you're not taking any triptans (Imitrex), anti-depressants, or opiods (vicodin, tramadol), you may want to try 100mg - 300mg of 5-HTP (L-5-HTP) instead of the Melatonin. Or you may want to mix 250mg of 5-HTP and 3-6mg of Melatonin.
"Melatonin vs. 5-HTP
5-HTP bypasses the brain's light-regulation system that controls the secretion of melatonin. 5-HTP results in the increased the production of neurotransmitters such as serotonin and norepinephrine that stimulate the noradrenergic receptors in the brain. This stimulation directly triggers the production and release of melatonin.
Thus, when you take 5-HTP, it causes the release of melatonin irrespective of how much light is present. The higher levels of melatonin in circulation, helps you to fall asleep and stay asleep better.
People with low melatonin who take 5-HTP at nighttime can enjoy the same sleep enhancing benefits as they will from taking melatonin alone, but they will also be getting the broader spectrum of benefits that comes from increased serotonin levels. (If you take melatonin alone it does not enhance the functions of the serotonin system.)"
from http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/Sleep/sleep_ins_melatonin-and-5HT P.htm
With 5-HTP, you don't wake up groggy.
Laurie
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Garys_Girl
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Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #13 on: Jul 8th, 2006, 10:52am » |
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Re: Taurine
"Taurine is an amino acid found in the heart muscle, white blood cells, skeletal muscle, and central nervous system. It is a building block of all the other amino acids as well as a key component of bile, which is needed for the digestion of fats, the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins and the control of serum cholesterol levels.
Taurine polices our cell membranes, keeping potassium and magnesium inside the cells and keeping excess sodium out. In this way the nutrient acts like a diuretic, without the side effects of a pharmaceutical diuretic.
Taurine does not act against the kidneys. In fact it improves kidney diseases in experimental animals, it was proposed as a treatment for several kinds of human renal disorders.
Regular supplements of taurine contribute to our antioxidant defenses, reinforce the immune system, strengthen the heart muscle, stabilize heart rhythm, prevent blood clots, guard against diabetes, and aid digestion.
Bile is an enzyme manufactured in the liver with taurine's help. In taurine's presence, bile remains in a liquid state and is less likely to form gallstones. Persons with cystic fibrosis can digest fats more successfully when they take taurine supplements.
In addition to encouraging the excretion of excess fluid, this amino acid dampens the sympathetic nervous system (which can constrict blood vessels), thereby relieving arterial spasms that cause blood pressure to rise."
from http://www.wellfx.com/InfoBase/vitamin_taurine_.htm
Basically, it helps lower blood pressure and benefits people with CHF because of the way it interacts with Calcium, potassium and magnesium.
It helps lower cholesterol because of its conjugation with bile acids that has a significant effect on the solubility of cholesterol - however, it does increase the production of bile, so if you have ulcers, Taurine should not be used.
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/taurine3-2.html
Dosage ranges, but given everything I've read, it seems that for CH (and cholesterol) benefits, it should be taken in 1000mg supplements 3 to 4 times/day. My guess is that for those CH sufferers that see some benefit from it it is because of the way it works with magnesium. To have maximum benefit, it is probably best to also add 1200mg of calcium and 500mg of magnesium (600mg of calcium and 250mg of magnesium twice a day) to your supplement intake.
Laurie
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Barry_T_Coles
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #14 on: Jul 8th, 2006, 9:48pm » |
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I have been trialing Taurine for nearly 3 months and getting some good results, the research Gary’s Girl (Laurie) has done into Taurine is good and a valuable read, one of the things that encouraged me to try it was the reference to Kidneys as I only have one kidney “ born that way as are 1 in 500 other people “ and the reason I don’t like to use heavy drugs.
My dosage for Taurine is 500 mg 3 times a day along with 500 mg of Magnesium X 3 times a day; this is working for me but may not work for everyone.
From my experience it took about a week for the Taurine to start making any difference and about a month for any marked difference.
I’m certainly not PF as I still shadow daily and get my hits but the shadows are so low that at times they are unnoticeable and its only occasionally that I have to resort to the o2 when a hit won’t go away within 15 – 20 minutes and I haven’t had a hit over a KIP 4 since I started the trial.
Here’s the link to the blog I am keeping on the daily goings on if you are interested.
http://au.blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-oT2JJXMzerQyQBygCRv3YiMCJuzW
This link will take you to the thread I started about the trial.
http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action= display;num=1146013283
Hope you find something that works for you.
Kind Regards
Barry
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jenrob2006
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #15 on: Jul 10th, 2006, 12:03pm » |
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OK. I have been taking the melatonin 9 mgs at night and the taurine 1000 mg twice a day. I have been OK at night. Only one attach in three nights, but during the day, I feel like I have been hit by a bus. No attacks, but an overall crappy feeling. I am not going to stop taking them because this is easier to deal with then the attacks. I have also been trying to drink a cup of coffee a day. Thanks guys for all the great advice!
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ShaneM
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #16 on: Jul 10th, 2006, 2:14pm » |
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Jenrob,
Are you taking verapamil? I think that I read something about not mixing verapamil and taurine on one of the RX links. you may want to check that out.
Shane
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jenrob2006
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #17 on: Jul 10th, 2006, 3:52pm » |
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Yes, I am taking Verapamil. I am going to have to check that out.
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Melvyn
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #18 on: Jul 21st, 2006, 4:45pm » |
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Jenrob,
I've been on Melatonin - 9mgs - about 4 weeks now.
The morning grogginess went after about two weeks as did the shadows. I did however stop all other meds.
Had tried taurine and 5-HTL to no effect.
the Melatonin is all I now take and only experience Kip 1- 1.5 maybe every other day.
My advice is - if you are experiencing some improvement - stick with it.
Rozens paper on Melatonin does say that different comercial brands should be tried as the amount of Melatonin described on the bottle is not always reliable.
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ShaneM
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #19 on: Jul 21st, 2006, 6:08pm » |
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Melvyn,
I am curious, what other meds were you on? I have had very good results with the Melatonin and am only getting minor attacks every 3 days but continue on preventatives. I am considering tapering and coming off the drugs (except Melatonin) b/c I think that my normal 6 wk cycle has been extended to 10wks. Is this your reason, or something else? I am on Verapamil and Topamax and hating it...
Shane
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Melvyn
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Re: Melatonin and Taurine - Help Please
« Reply #20 on: Jul 21st, 2006, 6:33pm » |
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Hi Shane,
My doc is not very good. He had me on Pzotifen as a preventative, was doling out trex injects 2 at a time when I visited and made a scene other than that he gave me Zomig melts.
I did ask to see a neuro but have been told I will have to wait 13 weeks for an appointment. Seems like when the doc referred me he didn't mark it as urgent. He'd said there was nothing else he could prescribe - never mentioned O2, and said only a neuro could prescribe verapamil. Suggested I give up smoking and try acupuncture!!
I did notice a lessening of the intensity of the Ch within a couple of days of using the Melatonin - which I had to order from the States, as a European regulation banned it's sale in the UK. Once the intensity lessened I stopped using the prescribed meds and relied on the Melatonin.
Like others I went through the groggy stage and the all day shadows but I can honestly say that after a couple of weeks I knew that I was over it. Slight Ch every 2 days or so but nothing worse than a minor headache.
No eye pain at all usually just the lower jaw and that's pretty dull at worst.
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