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stecky001
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Narcotic Pain Relief
« on: Jun 11th, 2006, 10:12pm » |
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I know this is a controversal subject but as a CH sufferer for over 4 years I think I'm on my last leg here. Verapamil, DHE, lithium, Oxygen, melatonin, beta blockers, Belladona and the list goes on....As a chronic suffer (anywhere from 10 days to 3 months straight) I was curious if there was an opinion on narcotic pain treatment for these episodes. I have yet to go there (although the ER daughters want to immediately dope me up to shut me up) I just need some advice. The last time I was up at the Diamond Headach Clinic in Chicago they suggested Methadone...which scared the heck out of me. If anyone has used narcotics as a supplement to their preventative please let me know. At this point I am pretty much looking for any relief -- um let me clarify that...not the permanent relief 
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Redd
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #1 on: Jun 11th, 2006, 10:19pm » |
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3.1.2 Chronic cluster headache
Description
Cluster headache attacks occurring for more than 1 year without remission or with remissions lasting less than 1 month.
O2 and imitrex injections abortive....check it out.
http://www.brightok.net/~mnjday/chtherapy.pdf
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Guiseppi
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #2 on: Jun 11th, 2006, 10:23pm » |
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With all the usual warnings about long term pain resulting in a tendency to addicition etc etc, please do take all of that VERY seriously. With all that in mind, the only narcotic that ever helped me was fiorinal. Something about it takes the edge off of the pain and also seems to affect the mechanism of pain, shortening the duration of the head ache.
That being said, if you have an addictive personality be very careful with it, you can really start to like it. That's why I stopped using it. If nothing else has worked take a look at the alternative treatments on the other boards. My job makes it a non option for me but I read lots of success stories on the board. Wishing you peace.
Guiseppi
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chewy
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #3 on: Jun 11th, 2006, 10:26pm » |
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Quote:| As a chronic suffer (anywhere from 10 days to 3 months straight) |
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If I am reading this right you are not chronic you are episodic.
What have you tried other than O2 for abortives?
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stecky001
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #4 on: Jun 11th, 2006, 10:29pm » |
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Thanks for the reply, I have tried Imitrex, Migranal, O2, Verapamil, Methoxyflurane, Calcium Channel Antagonists, Ergotamin , nifedipine and Occipital Nerve Steroid Blocade (not fun and obviously not at the same time). I have had my current CHRONIC headache for a year and half. Any other suggestions?
I don't mean to sound grouchy here but I understand what the difference of a chronic and episodic CH is. Personally my headaches started out as a once a season but has escalated into what is termed as chronic by my neurologist. I
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| « Last Edit: Jun 11th, 2006, 10:32pm by stecky001 » |
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Guiseppi
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #5 on: Jun 11th, 2006, 10:42pm » |
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Don't apologize for sounding grumpy, these damned things hurt!!! I use lithium, 1200 mg a day when in cycle. I'm a 46 year old male, weigh about 190 pouinds. I use oxygen and cafergot to abort. Resisted trying lithium at first cuz i thougt it was a crazy person med. It's been my "magic drug for blocking these things. Good luck.
Guiseppi
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zuesthedog
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #6 on: Jun 12th, 2006, 2:05pm » |
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Well I am a 30 year suffer[ first episodic then chonic for the last 5 years. Anyway i have try about every med and procedure know to man, including narcs. At one point up to 1600 mil of demerol a week. also tried methadone. None of the narcs really knock the pain out however if I would take enough it knock me out. My wife told me even though I would be out cold I would still cry and moan in my sleep. I wouldn't wish narc on any one but when your at your end they could be the different between life and sucide. Other narcs I tried are stadol, morphine phentall ,dilatta. The answere to the next obvios quest ? is yes i did become addictived and currently useing methadone to wing myself off. Oh yea .I have foud what works for me to keep from doing any meds again, that is a trigeminal nerve stim. inplanted feb 2 .working great and keeps me away from narcs and emer. room visits . I wish you good luck and PF days John
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Charlotte
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #7 on: Jun 12th, 2006, 3:26pm » |
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Fiorinal worked best for me, also, but it was more a partial success, and the local docs don't like to prescribe it because it was so overprescribed in the 90's that many people abused it.
Have you tried kudzu? It seems to give me a systemic type relief, taking some of the pain off the top level.
I, too, am chronic. Mine varry and seem to fall into a pattern for between a day to a month.
When I started kudzu, a little over a month ago, I was getting hit every hour, something that happened only once before in 2001-2002 and lasted over 2 months. This time it only lasted a day - which was the day I started kudzu. The second day changed to 1 1/2 hours apart for about 4 days, then had a morning of back to back hits, then the next day started a pattern at a lower pain level and about every two hours. Today, it seems to be every 4 hours.
Charlotte
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| « Last Edit: Jun 12th, 2006, 3:50pm by Charlotte » |
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jon019
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Hi Stecky,
The very first med I was prescribed was fiorinal. All it did was make me dopey and in the same pain I was in without it.
Did not notice a steroid in your list. Prednisone taper worked for me in the past (and then verapamil) and the latest cycle busted with a solu-medrol IV and taper followed by the verapamil. O 2 for breakthroughs and a very tried and true (for me) double strength HOT coffee
gulped at first sign.
Hope you find your answer,
Jon
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Bob P
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #9 on: Jun 12th, 2006, 5:02pm » |
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Quote:| I have had my current CHRONIC headache for a year and half. Any other suggestions? |
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Is that one headache for a year and half?
All of the CH doctors say there is no place for pain killers in the treatment of CH. The headaches are too short in duration and are over before the pain killer can act.
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Kris_in_SJ
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #10 on: Jun 12th, 2006, 5:38pm » |
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Ditto to Bob P. For the most part, narcotics are ineffective, cause rebound headaches and can place a monkey firmly on your back.
Why take something that probably won't help and will possibly make things worse? Just my 2 cents worth.
Sorry you're suffering so much.
Hugs,
Kris
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Tom K
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #11 on: Jun 12th, 2006, 7:24pm » |
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X30(?) on the narcs. I went to the ER one night with a 10 that wouldn't break. They shot me up with Demeral and gave me O2. I don't remember if my HA went away or I just didn't give a damn. I do remember sleeping on the couch and getting hit about 5 hours later. I couldn't move in order to get meds into me and finally passed back out. I live around Chicago and won't go to Diamond...too many bad stories. I have a great doc and I travel 45 mins to see her, Diamond would be closer, but I'd rather go to a doc that listens and works on my plan with me. Just my $.03, due to inflation!! YMMV
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Linda_Howell
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #12 on: Jun 12th, 2006, 8:20pm » |
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Quote: For the most part, narcotics are ineffective, cause rebound headaches and can place a monkey firmly on your back.
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Kris just saved me the time of typing that, for the one billionth time.
Linda
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stecky001
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #13 on: Jun 12th, 2006, 9:20pm » |
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Bob P: pretty much for a year straight. There are days that I can go with only one or two 15-20 minutes episodes but its definitely a consistant chronic.
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stecky001
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #14 on: Jun 12th, 2006, 9:27pm » |
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I am definitely going to be thinking hard about the implications of trading one pain (CH) for a possible addiction. At times it seems like I am walking around in a daze whether I am on in a CH or not. Would like to not have my 7 year old daughter ask me daily if I have a headache - very emotionally traumatic. Nor do I want to have an addiction that does not allow me to enjoy the good days. Thanks all for your help and any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
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FramCire
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #15 on: Jun 13th, 2006, 12:49am » |
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1. If the tradeoff was addiction for pain relief, it would be a ough call but honestly you wont get consistant relief from pain killers (I dont think) to make the risk even worth it.
2. Have you tried melatonin? In the article linked above 9 mg of melatonin was the FIRST preventative that is suggested. Verapomil is 2nd.
3. Do you have the right mask for the O2. Just checking. There is info on the left side of this page.
4. I use ultracet sometimes when I am having back to back HAs with trigeminal nerve pain in my jaw. I only use it when I need a little relief and it curbs the nerve pain for me but does little with the HA aspect.
5. make sure you read the entire article Redd linked in the first reply. It is excellent and very extensive.
Good luck. Again that article will give you a lot of ideas and read the rest ofthe site for alternative therapies.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 13th, 2006, 12:51am by FramCire » |
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You've overstayed your welcome since the day we met but it doesn't seem to matter to you. No medications are your master, nothing makes you fret, it's a helpless feeling having nothing I can do
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Katherinecm
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #16 on: Jun 13th, 2006, 3:29pm » |
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I am in the 25% that narcotics do help. I realize all of you are trying to help b/c narcs don't work for you, and addiction (especially to something as strong as methadone) is something to be avoided. But they do help SOME (25%) of CH sufferers, and the people they do help they help A LOT. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for someone else.
I stick to oral meds, which doesn't get rid of them but does knock it down, from say a 10 to a 6. And I only take them when I have a Kip 9 or 10, and even then try to limit to the worst attack every other day or so. Those who say they don't work fast enough to help are flat out wrong. If an attack averages 45 minutes or longer, even if a med takes 20 minutes to work it still makes a huge difference. I have noticed that if I swallow the pill with a Red Bull or similiar energy drink, it works in less than 10 minutes (faster than trex) and is much more effective. And no, red bull does not work alone. Narcotics don't cause rebounds for me. Imitrex & similar drugs definitely do, and don't work well enough to suffer the side effects (knock something down 1 point on the Kip scale, only to have worse attacks in the next several hours). Oxygen doesn't work. As someone who gets 3-8 attacks throughout any given 24 hour period (more if I try Trex), combined with an intractible migrane for well over a year now, pain control is neccesary for me to avoid severe depression & suicidal thoughts. The idea that they don't help me at all is absolute BS! While obviously addiction should be avoided, we are not stecky's doctor, and we don't know her emotional state. Chances are they had a good reason to suggest what they did. I am not addicted, but I would take addiction with pain control over suicidal thoughts any day at all. As patients we have a right to have our pain under control.
Having said that, methadone is extreme at it's best.Stecky, I would research all other options first, unless you're so depressed you can't handle it anymore.
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FramCire
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #17 on: Jun 13th, 2006, 3:46pm » |
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katherine,
I was unaware that 25% get relief from oral narcotics. The paper I read said that narcotics have no place in the treatment of CH because those that do work do take too long. I do use Ultracet but not for the HA (the nerve pain that accompanies the HAs).
I did get relief 1 time from narcotics. They hadn't diagnosed me correctly and the doctor couldn't stand how I looked so he shot me up with a marcotic and the HA went away. It might have been the narcotic or that the HA ended anyway.
Anyway, thanks for the info. I think we all are for pain relief in whatever form it takes. A lot of people use things with bad side effects to get the relief because it is worth it. (I used topomax 100mg/day)
I'd still try melatonin before I went to a narcotic though. It was a horrid first dfew nights on melatonin but then it got MUCH better and melatonin has had clinical results and is MUCH safer.
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You've overstayed your welcome since the day we met but it doesn't seem to matter to you. No medications are your master, nothing makes you fret, it's a helpless feeling having nothing I can do
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Tom K
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #18 on: Jun 13th, 2006, 4:01pm » |
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on Jun 13th, 2006, 3:29pm, Katherinecm wrote:I am in the 25% that narcotics do help. I realize all of you are trying to help b/c narcs don't work for you, and addiction (especially to something as strong as methadone) is something to be avoided. But they do help SOME (25%) of CH sufferers, and the people they do help they help A LOT. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for someone else.
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I think most CHers fit into the 25% rule. 25% of everyone gets relief from some med treatment. Not everything works for everybody.
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gore2424
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #19 on: Jun 13th, 2006, 5:06pm » |
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Hello all first I must state that everyone is different. I am chronic since Nov 1999 before 17 years spring and fall only. Since 1996 tried 67 different meds in many combos O2 stopped Trex stopped and others failed. Had H/A 24/7 7 days a week 365 days a year. So in May 2002 I tried the trigeminal being cut no turning it back. Numb on right of face for life and only got about 4 months relief. Now I use a fentynal pain patch and it keeps me at base line of a 2-4 h/a 24/7 and am allowed 12 per month 10mg morphine shots for the bad times I must change patch every 72 hours and this has been working for me since the fall of 2002 I am on SSD because mostly of the side effects of the pain med BUT I mow my yard and even sometimes my dads yard if not alone just in case and I drive 3-4 times a week to store or other close by places.
So its like I had to do something and it has been working out for ME and everyone is different so its what you and your body will tell you if it works for you or not. I know about the addiction part because I took stadol for about 6 months but took myself off cause I was lieing to get more (broke bottle ,someone stole it out of car) I was buying it taking off lid putting 1/2 water in it to make it last longer and I could take more so I knew it was wrong and what it was doing to my mind body and soul ok I have rambled on too much Terry
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mynm156
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #20 on: Jun 13th, 2006, 9:44pm » |
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Ya Know it REALLY chaps my A$$ when people just stand up and say Narcs dont work. Lets face it NONE of us are the same! What works for one does not work for the other. However, if narcs didnt work at all for ANYONE then it probably would even be referrenced. So they must help some in some small way or another.
Some people due to insurance restraints can only get 6 trexes a month. Ok well if you are chronic your screwed! Ever check see the price of triptans without insurance?? Hey if it even helps! I say its worth a shot. Hell how many of us accept the fact that there are illegal ways to treat these! I do. I know too many people who have been helped by them. I also know a good amount of our brothers and sisters have had some success with Narcs. Try it, if it works or helps then hopefully you will know just how PRECIOUS it is and not abuse it.
Good Vibes to all
Your Brother in pain,
mynm156
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| « Last Edit: Jun 14th, 2006, 9:59am by mynm156 » |
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Katherinecm
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #21 on: Jun 13th, 2006, 10:59pm » |
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on Jun 13th, 2006, 9:44pm, mynm156 wrote:
Ya Know it REALLY chaps my A$$ when people just stand up and say Narcs dont work.
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Ditto!
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Radha
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #22 on: Jun 13th, 2006, 11:43pm » |
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i doubt any of you will answer my plea, but i am asking anyway, my doc is very close minded and wont give me anything other than imitrex and relpax and ultram, and i really want to try morphine and percocet or even dilaudid for the unbearable times, i have no plans or ideas of taking them often because the last thing i want is to get addicted, do any of you know of any websites or a way to get these drugs without a prescription? i hope someone will help me and not just say go to a pain specialist, because i cannot travel at all, thanks
radha
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FramCire
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #23 on: Jun 14th, 2006, 6:24pm » |
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Unless you can find a doctor to agree with you, I don't know of any other way. Unfortunately, the clinical trials have shown that narcs don't work any better than a placebo (or at least to a statistical significance).
Unfortunately, unless your doctor has specific success with narcs and CH, I don't think you'll find one who will give it to you. Trust me, you don't want the "drug seeker" label either.
Your best bet is a nuero or pain specialist (I know you can't travel, but it is your best bet, sorry).
There are tons of other things to try. Use Redds article and bring it to your doctor. There are MANY things to try as abortives. (it does suggest narcs wont work though).
I hope you can find something to work. You might also want to try the alternatives you find here.
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You've overstayed your welcome since the day we met but it doesn't seem to matter to you. No medications are your master, nothing makes you fret, it's a helpless feeling having nothing I can do
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Radha
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Re: Narcotic Pain Relief
« Reply #24 on: Jun 14th, 2006, 11:27pm » |
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thanks for taking the time to reply ,
radha
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