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Topic: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto (Read 6734 times) |
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MJ
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RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« on: Nov 22nd, 2005, 12:34pm » |
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Squanto was a native american trusted quide and interpreter for the europeans in the new land of america. He is reborn. Thanks for your posts Squanto.
I apologize for the length of this post in advance I had told some I would post it.
Ordered RC seeds last friday, came yesterday (monday) afternoon.
I have been in a nasty cycle now for only about 3 weeks I think.
For the last 10 years I have chosen to be unmedicated due to the fact that medications for the most part did nothing for my head and if anything made the pain of CH worse for me. Oxygen for me at any levels and using the proper mask style and flows has never helped in any way. The only symptom of oxygen for me was a tenfold increase in pain if thats possible.
I think its necessary to post about me a bit. So bear with me.
I have had variable episodic cluster headaches for a lot of years. In other words my cycles occur at no particular time and have lasted from four months to years.
While in a cycle the CH attacks occur from 8 to 12 times in a 24 hr. period. The attacks last up to 2 hours. The level of pain is allways at the high end of the scales. Cycle to cycle this has never changed.
Throughout my history of CH I have never found a medication of any kind that has been of true benefit to my cluster headaches. Except high dosage prednisone tapers above 120 mg. wich had only allowed me a few days off at times when I just couldnt take it anymore, but the CH allways returned.
For the last few cycles I have used a 12mg dose of ephedrine once a day in cycle to help me on the non attack side. This has helped to clear my head and keep me alert for the attacks to come and for daily living. Unfotunately the ephedrine has become unavailable due to controversy and some dangerous side effects.
Fast forward to now.
Yesterday upon receipt of the RC seeds from distributor,
I crushed 15 seeds with a pair of pliers and they then easily crumbled in my fingers. I put them to soak in 2 ounces of water for about 3 hours, the water had turned a brownish color and about 9:00 pm I drank the whole thing seeds and all. Taste was not bad at all.
I went about my business half expecting to see the walls start to melt. About 40 minutes in I felt a light tingle in my fingers and a slight flushing in my face. The feelings never went beyond that.
Around 11:00 I could tell a cluster was trying to break through as a very distinct pressure built in my head. No pain emerged..
12:30 I went to bed and fell asleep. Wich in itself was very exciting to me as many clusterheads know sleep is better than diamonds and gold. I had very little sleep in the past few days never more than an hour tops and maybe 2-3 hrs total.
1:30 am woke up and jumped out of bed with an instant k10. I assumed the cluster mode began to pace through the house and then 10 minutes later wondered why I was pacing, "the damn thing was gone". went back to bed.
3:00 am. Same thing again jumped out of bed thought so much for that treatment did some pushups and 10 minutes later Gone.
4:30 am Same again but just sat on the edge of bed a bit and back to sleep.
Slept then untill 8:30 am a 4 hr record for me. I had my very normal wake up, good morning K10 attack, downed some black coffee as allways began my cluster mode and 15 minutes later gone.
I had planned to take the morning off not knowing how I would feel from the seeds. I feel a very slight hangover effect but nothing like the effects of a 2 hr. attack.
11:00am I have not had an attack since 8:30 Abnormal for me. But I do once again feel the pressure in my head but no pain yet.
In a few days I will no wether or not to reccomend this treatment. At this moment in time I am truly amazed.
I dont know of any other treatment that has been so well researched and discussed as the hallucinogenic treatments for cluster HA by and for sufferers.
As I am sure like many of us, I feared that word hallucinogenic. Let me be one of many to say follow the plans laid out by clusterbusters and fear is not neccessary.
I did exceed their reccomended dosing of seeds. I was hoping to have a word with God but the seeds failed me in that aspect.
MJ
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| « Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2006, 10:45pm by MJ » |
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zanychef
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #1 on: Nov 22nd, 2005, 12:41pm » |
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nice to see some positive effects on the rc as i have considered using them keep us informed 
i'd be very interested in the results
are you in touch with clusterbusters?
ian
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plenty of time to sleep now me headaches aint too bad
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MJ
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #2 on: Nov 22nd, 2005, 12:48pm » |
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Ian, no I am not in touch with clusterbusters.
Will keep you posted though.
MJ
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LeeS
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #3 on: Nov 22nd, 2005, 1:41pm » |
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Hope it works and lasts for you MJ.
Quote:| I crushed 15 seeds with a pair of pliers and they then easily crumbled in my fingers. I put them to soak in 2 ounces of water for about 3 hours, the water had turned a brownish color |
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For me this is unusual with the RC seeds. They tend to be very hard and hence difficult to crush without pinging them across the room. This may mean that they are less 'viable' than they should be - perhaps BikerBob could help out here?
Anyway, they seem to be doing the trick thus far. All the best with it and keep us posted.
-Lee
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MJ
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #4 on: Nov 22nd, 2005, 3:06pm » |
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Lee, I used a 12" industrial style vise grip/ channell lok type pliers with the sharp serrated teeth in the jaws. crushed no problem, one by one. They flattened like pancakes and I had to brush them out of the teeth
I couldnt catch them when I tried smacking them.
2:00 pm feel like I drank too much coffee. Only 2 cups all day.
edit time.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 22nd, 2005, 3:11pm by MJ » |
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Squanto
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #5 on: Nov 22nd, 2005, 3:14pm » |
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Quote:| Squanto was a native american trusted quide and interpreter for the europeans in the new land of america. He is reborn. Thanks for your posts Squanto. |
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Wow! What a nice thing to say. I'm blushing.
MJ, I really hope that you get the best of all possible results and benefits from the RC seeds. It takes a both a leap of faith and significant pains in the head to step over the ledge and try these "alternatives", don't it?
Keep us posted. It helps a lot to know that there are others in the same boat.
Squanto 
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vig
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #6 on: Nov 22nd, 2005, 5:52pm » |
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way cool.
keep up the good work
allayooz
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MJ
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #7 on: Nov 22nd, 2005, 7:56pm » |
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6:40 pm. not a single cluster headache has occured since this morning. Normally this would not be the case.
I think several times today the attacks have tried to come through. They manifest themselves like a pressure building. Around 4:00 I felt kind of light headed and was sort of buzzing all through my body for about an hour. then that went away. Dont know if that was a CH or was I just a little stoned.
I wonder if maybe I didnt over do the dosage a bit as 20 hours later I still feel a bit buzzed, more so than last night. licking lips etc.
Anybody have some input on that? Can the initial effect of the seeds really last that long?
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BikerBob
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #8 on: Nov 22nd, 2005, 9:58pm » |
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on Nov 22nd, 2005, 7:56pm, MJ wrote:6:40 pm. not a single cluster headache has occured since this morning. Normally this would not be the case.
I think several times today the attacks have tried to come through. They manifest themselves like a pressure building. Around 4:00 I felt kind of light headed and was sort of buzzing all through my body for about an hour. then that went away. Dont know if that was a CH or was I just a little stoned.
I wonder if maybe I didnt over do the dosage a bit as 20 hours later I still feel a bit buzzed, more so than last night. licking lips etc.
Anybody have some input on that? Can the initial effect of the seeds really last that long?
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No.
Considering the fact that you "crushed 15 seeds with a pair of pliers and they then easily crumbled in my fingers. I put them to soak in 2 ounces of water for about 3 hours" before ingesting the concoction...
And considering the fact that you "About 40 minutes in I felt a light tingle in my fingers and a slight flushing in my face. The feelings never went beyond that."
I don't believe that the psychedelic-related effects or the "buzz" could possibly last more than 6-8 hours.
Now...
Considering the fact that "At this moment in time I am truly amazed."
And considering the fact that "6:40 pm. not a single cluster headache has occured since this morning. Normally this would not be the case."
Do you think it's possible that the "feel a bit buzzed" that you're having now is a natural emotional high from being pain free all day for a change?
Relax, breathe, it's going to be OK.
BB
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| « Last Edit: Nov 22nd, 2005, 10:05pm by BikerBob » |
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MJ
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #9 on: Nov 22nd, 2005, 10:50pm » |
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BikerBob
I am in no way stressed and am indeed fairly relaxed. I am also very much pleased with this day.
No I dont think its due to a natural high. I dont quite understand why the very close to identical feeling or "buzz" still remains.
Perhaps it was a mechanism of sorts in my body that hasnt yet shut down from the previous weeks of pain. I sure dont know and I am not too upset about it.
But it certainly is a curious thing.
I did understand that 6-8 hours was the most likely time for the RC effect to last. Thus the reason I asked.
Two of you have mentioned the seeds (wich I got from Iamshaman). Is it possible the seeds themselves are somehow at fault. They were stated to be 100% viable.
I do not pretend to know any more than I have learned from reading the available information.
MJ
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| « Last Edit: Nov 22nd, 2005, 10:55pm by MJ » |
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #10 on: Nov 23rd, 2005, 2:14am » |
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on Nov 22nd, 2005, 10:50pm, MJ wrote: Is it possible the seeds themselves are somehow at fault. They were stated to be 100% viable.
MJ |
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At fault for what? The decrease in cluster activity? Probably.
Do you mean is the viability of the seeds in question and does that play a role in the "length" of any psychedelic effects?
No, the viability would not play a role in the length of the psychedelic effects, IMHO. Especially at such a low psychedelic dose.
The non-viability of some of the seeds "might" cause a decrease in the psychedelic response. It is possible that a non-viable (dead for all intents and purposes (won't grow)) seed will have little or no psychedelic effect. So, if they were not 100% viable, say only 12 of the 15 were viable, then it was like taking 12 seeds and not 15.
As to the effects you were experiencing some 20 hours later, such as light-headedness, this is most likely some of the autotomic responses that occur with cluster headaches. I have had this same sensation a couple of times while breaking a cycle.
There are often times a few of these autotomic signs of clusters that remain even though the pain response has not been triggered. Many people that begin the treatment will report still having a few remnants such as light-headedness, droopy eyelid, pupil contraction, tearing, nasal congestion, etc., but no pain or shortened attacks. These may come just when you would be expecting the cluster attack and last about as long. Instead of all the different symptoms lasting that hour or so, you may get a few tell tale signs that the cluster is trying to break through but doesn't. When the cycle ends, all these autotomic responses end also.
Good luck and thanks very much for the detailed report.
Bobw
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Flash
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #11 on: Nov 23rd, 2005, 8:37am » |
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MJ,
The day after dosing with a hallucinogenic you may feel a little strange. It's like the come down period. And this applies with small doses. Normally you feel a little relaxed, perhaps a bit fuzzy or dopey, and occasionally you may feel a little dizziness.
But I agree with Bob, much of what you have described is actually caused by the CH trying and failing to break down the door. This can cause some peculiar sensations, inlcuding pressure, light headedness, an almost pleasant feeling like you normally experience at the end of a bad attack. Stuff like that.
The chances are that this activity will occur for 48 hours after the dose. At that point either the attacks will taper off, or ramp up again. If they ramp up again then consider a second dose. Other than that it's hard to provide direction. Some people find it best to dose agaun immediately, some wait 5 days, and some wait 7 days. We really don't know which is best.
Twice in that past almost 13 years I have dosed, experience a couple of days of relief/fluctuation, then have the headaches come back worse than ever for 4 days, then had them suddenly stop. But usually they just stop straight away or fade out after a couple of days.
So lets see how the next couple of days go, and based on that we'll each try and offer you an opinion. Most of which will be conflicting LOL!
The good news is that the seeds are doing something, and that is a VERY good sign.
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MJ
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #12 on: Nov 23rd, 2005, 9:28am » |
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Thank you much for your inputs. I appreciate and respect yours and all opinions.
Not to dwell on the buzz but the closest I can describe the lasting feeling I had was most like a high dosage of cold medicine had been taken.
Now as my head is still recovering from the last attack a bit of that feeling still remains
Now the sad part beginning early this morning. I resumed my normal routine.
went to sleep at around 12:30am
1:30 woken by full blown attack back to bed by 2:15am. 45 min
2:30 repeat k10 to bed by 3:30 1hr
4:00am. up like a bolt of lightning and I,m sure many know the feeling of the extreme attack untill 5:30 1.5 hr
6:00am. same attack to 7:30am. Violent is all I can say.
8:20 am feeling bruised but pretty good.
The initial results that allowed me a day off were certainly acceptable to me and the little bit of excess sleep I received the night before also helped.
I will redose this evening and see what happens at the same 15 seeds. Unless I here a sound reccomendation for a change.
Thanks
MJ
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vig
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e: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #13 on: Nov 23rd, 2005, 12:59pm » |
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Here's a picture of a HBWR dose for me...
picture's dated Halloween 2005.
4 weekend doses of psilocybin and a final dose here:
13 minor hits, 3 mild hits; instead of the hundred or so in a typical Fall episode.
thanks Pink and Flash
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| « Last Edit: Nov 23rd, 2005, 1:00pm by vig » |
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Beastfodder
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #14 on: Nov 23rd, 2005, 7:39pm » |
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MJ
I'm delighted to hear progress is being made long may it continue.
It's not so scary once you've taken the first step, much less so compared to alternative medications you can be subscribed. Not surprised you opted out of polypharmacy, some stuff I've been prescribed in the past such as carbazemine and pizotifen make you feel pretty ropey.
Using psilocybin I've had a fantastic cluster attack this year.
I'm touching wood as I type but 4 headaches none lasting over 40 mins-1 hour beat the hell out of the last year's 50 odd two and half hour jobs.
Two weeks since anything of note. I dosed before the cycle and three times as an abortive with 02, mostly sipping, with great effect on the headache - but not on my inner psyche and consciousness.
Only once was it gently nudged for a couple of hours - but the pain was sharpish at the time and the relief so worthwhile.
All the very best with the treatment
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MJ
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #15 on: Nov 23rd, 2005, 8:38pm » |
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Thanks Beast thats what I need to hear.
I'm feeling like my same old self CH all the damn time.
I'm running a CH log here as well sorry.
11:30 am 1.5 hrs attack I believe maybe for the first time it was down to a level k 8
2:00pm major attack for an hour
5:15 heavy shadows Around 6 had a hard hit driving had to pull over for about 20 minutes and attack lasted till I got home. another 30 minutes. Just kindof shadowing now.
I have another batch of RC seeds soaking.
Sure hope you all are right on this treatment. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Jonny
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #16 on: Nov 23rd, 2005, 9:11pm » |
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on Nov 23rd, 2005, 8:38pm, MJ wrote:
I'm feeling like my same old self CH all the damn time.
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Bummer, Dude!!
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
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nani
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #17 on: Nov 23rd, 2005, 9:29pm » |
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Don't be discouraged, MJ. It's pretty normal to have an increase in activity in the first few post-dose days. Just keep track, and if it isn't getting better in a few more days, consider another (slightly bigger) dose. You always want to give it at least 5 days, preferably more, before you dose again.
pf wishes, nani
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MJ
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #18 on: Nov 23rd, 2005, 11:01pm » |
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Thanks Nani
Its only an increase in activity from yesterday. Was the same in days before first seeds dose.
Now that I had a taste of the potential of these silly little seeds and some wisdom from those guys above I cant wait 5 days. I am trying a second dose now at 48 hours since the last dose.
So far I am more encouraged, than discouraged.
Will see what happens.
MJ
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #19 on: Nov 24th, 2005, 12:53am » |
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Good luck on this dose MJ.
I know the excitement and urge to use these methods sooner than the 5 days but really, there seem to be good reasons for waiting as long as possible. We obviously don't want to see anyone in pain any longer than need be and would have people dose within 24 hours if we thought it was the best way. There are times when it IS almost impossibe to wait 5 days just from the level and frequency of the pain and in those cases we try to stretch out the time between doses as much as possible each time...hoping for a longer time span between each subsiquent dose.
Hopefully this dose will show great improvement but if not, please don't be discouraged. Please try to determine if the side effects (psychedelic effects) are about the same, greater or less than the previous dose. This will help you/us determine future dose sizes based upon this time span.
Also, if another dose is needed, I would either double the number of seeds or better yet (I believe) would be to soak the seeds longer (12-24 hours) and in alcohol, as this form of extraction may prove more effective. Details of the differentces in extraction can be found in the LSA FAQ on the Clusterbusters website.
Best of luck and have a great Thanksgiving!!!
Bobw
P.S. Great shot Vig...wanna send it to me for the next webpage update?
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MJ
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #20 on: Nov 24th, 2005, 1:19am » |
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Thanks.
Now you tell me I could have doubled the seeds
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Flash
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #21 on: Nov 24th, 2005, 5:06am » |
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on Nov 24th, 2005, 1:19am, MJ wrote:Thanks.
Now you tell me I could have doubled the seeds |
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I suspect what Bob meant was EITHER double the dose OR soak them for alcohol in for 24 hours first. Don't worry - the seeds will neutralise the alcohol as far as any hits are concerned.
Personally my advice would be to soak 15 seeds in alcohol for 24 hours prior to dosing. This will properly extract all the LSA from the seeds, meaning you are more economical with the seeds and get max benefit from them.
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MJ
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #22 on: Nov 24th, 2005, 9:54am » |
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Thanks Flash.
Dosed with the fifteen seeds last night/ evening. again was about a 3 hour soak.
Immediate effects were pretty much the same as before a little tingle in the fingers and a slight flushing of the face.
Something I probably wouldnt notice at other times but I was paying close attention.
The most telling effect was that a shadow that had been nagging disapeared.
Dosed around 9:00 pm (my time)
To bed around 1:30 am
1:50 am, Up with a major cluster headache..
There was a difference in the pain in the fact that it was more focused and less spread out than normal. Not sure how else to desxcribe it. Maybe a cleaner pain without some of the cloudiness that sometimes accompanies it. But the intensity of pain was as strong as ever.
3:30 am. Back to bed and slept untill 7:30 am.
7:30 am. up with what I think was an attack trying to break through.
8:30 am. No pain Tired but feeling like I slept.
Good results as only one attack has occured through the night.
Hosting a Thanksgiving dinner today for a bunch of people, hoping it hangs in there all day.
MJ
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #23 on: Nov 24th, 2005, 10:11am » |
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Flash / Pinkfloyd
My fear of alcohol at this time may be greater than any other. Alcohol is the very worse trigger for me. Even the thought anymore seems to be a trigger. Wine is the worst.
I think I may have to stick with water. I believe you but not that much.
How about grape juice any experience there?
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Chillrmn1
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Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
« Reply #24 on: Nov 24th, 2005, 11:04am » |
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Then don't soak in alcohol........you don't need to be wondering about the alcohol if you fear it will trigger you. Hydrolyzing LSA from 4 HBWR seeds by soaking in water is what I give credit to for busting my 8.5 month cycle. Point being, be comfortable with your preparation.
Edit for spelling.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 24th, 2005, 11:05am by Chillrmn1 » |
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