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Topic: See men shredded, then say you don't back war (Read 1181 times) |
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fubar
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See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« on: Mar 18th, 2003, 12:36pm » |
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March 18, 2003
See men shredded, then say you don't back war
By Ann Clwyd
“There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were dropped into it and we were again made to watch. Sometimes they went in head first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It was horrible. I saw 30 people die like this. Their remains would be placed in plastic bags and we were told they would be used as fish food . . . on one occasion, I saw Qusay [President Saddam Hussein’s youngest son] personally supervise these murders.”
This is one of the many witness statements that were taken by researchers from Indict — the organisation I chair — to provide evidence for legal cases against specific Iraqi individuals for war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. This account was taken in the past two weeks.
Another witness told us about practices of the security services towards women: “Women were suspended by their hair as their families watched; men were forced to watch as their wives were raped . . . women were suspended by their legs while they were menstruating until their periods were over, a procedure designed to cause humiliation.”
The accounts Indict has heard over the past six years are disgusting and horrifying. Our task is not merely passively to record what we are told but to challenge it as well, so that the evidence we produce is of the highest quality. All witnesses swear that their statements are true and sign them.
For these humanitarian reasons alone, it is essential to liberate the people of Iraq from the regime of Saddam. The 17 UN resolutions passed since 1991 on Iraq include Resolution 688, which calls for an end to repression of Iraqi civilians. It has been ignored. Torture, execution and ethnic-cleansing are everyday life in Saddam’s Iraq.
Were it not for the no-fly zones in the south and north of Iraq — which some people still claim are illegal — the Kurds and the Shia would no doubt still be attacked by Iraqi helicopter gunships.
For more than 20 years, senior Iraqi officials have committed genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. This list includes far more than the gassing of 5,000 in Halabja and other villages in 1988. It includes serial war crimes during the Iran-Iraq war; the genocidal Anfal campaign against the Iraqi Kurds in 1987-88; the invasion of Kuwait and the killing of more than 1,000 Kuwaiti civilians; the violent suppression, which I witnessed, of the 1991 Kurdish uprising that led to 30,000 or more civilian deaths; the draining of the Southern Marshes during the 1990s, which ethnically cleansed thousands of Shias; and the summary executions of thousands of political opponents.
Many Iraqis wonder why the world applauded the military intervention that eventually rescued the Cambodians from Pol Pot and the Ugandans from Idi Amin when these took place without UN help. They ask why the world has ignored the crimes against them?
All these crimes have been recorded in detail by the UN, the US, Kuwaiti, British, Iranian and other Governments and groups such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty and Indict. Yet the Security Council has failed to set up a war crimes tribunal on Iraq because of opposition from France, China and Russia. As a result, no Iraqi official has ever been indicted for some of the worst crimes of the 20th century. I have said incessantly that I would have preferred such a tribunal to war. But the time for offering Saddam incentives and more time is over.
I do not have a monopoly on wisdom or morality. But I know one thing. This evil, fascist regime must come to an end. With or without the help of the Security Council, and with or without the backing of the Labour Party in the House of Commons tonight.
The author is Labour MP for Cynon Valley.
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cootie
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #1 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 1:36pm » |
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WOW....that shredder story gave me the "willies"......man.......thanks fu fer the story.......Pam-Coots-with-wee-willies
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cbolony
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #2 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 1:56pm » |
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great post fubur. Saddam and his two sons are going to die can't wait to see there dead bodys in the streets
and watch the Iraq people kicking there dead ass all over Baghdad.
Quote:| Many Iraqis wonder why the world applauded the military intervention that eventually rescued the Cambodians from Pol Pot |
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I think pol pot killed over 2 million people
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jonny
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #3 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 3:27pm » |
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Let operation "Crispy Camel" begin!!!!
...........................jonny
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JDH
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #4 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 3:41pm » |
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What goes around comes around and it's about to come around in a very big and very bad way for Mr short ass life span Hussein and his band of thugs.
Hope they still have that shredder in operation when the good guys arrive in Baghdad...I'd like to see it used on some of these sadistic a-holes.
Jim
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suzy617
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #5 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 4:42pm » |
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That story was absolutely horrifying. Its just so hard to imagine someone could do these things.
Saddam and his boys got to go.....
Operation Crispy Camel, LOL! 
suzy
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CJohnson
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #6 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 4:53pm » |
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Wow, this story really shocked me. I have always expected a group of people chock full of extremists who have for 100 generations lived in a freakin' war-torn desert to produce sensible and peaceful leadership.
Let operation "Crispy Camel" begin!!!!
Umm, what Jonny said.
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Bob P
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #7 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 5:26pm » |
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Just heard that there was a big earthquake in France .........56,000 Americans just rolled over in their graves.
Seriously, watched a CNN special last night on Sadamn. Showed a clip of when he took over the government, convened a session of all of the government types, declaired there were traitors in the room, started reading names. Some were his closest friends. As each name was called, the person rose and was escorted from the room, never to be seen again. The rest of the people in the room sat there wiping tears from their eyes but too scared to say anything.
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jonny
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #8 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 5:48pm » |
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NUFF SAID!!!!
...............................jonny ;D
(Thanks Cutie)
LMAO....Just heard on the radio that our guys are getting messages from Iraq commanders saying they dont want to fight....Hmmmmmmmm!!!
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| « Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2003, 5:58pm by jonny » |
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cootie
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #9 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 6:11pm » |
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Sure nuff jonny !! Hey don't them people over in Iraq area think that if they die for there country or cause they will live ferever and sniff insense in a dream world bein a martor for there country ? I think that was an evil plan to control there people for war purposes or terroism attacks....they get the job done for ya on command thinkin that crap will happen. Poundin them indeas into people esp the young makes it bad........nothin worse then kamakazi ragheads on camels. Jus some thoughts......Pam-Coots-that-sumtimes-thinks-stupid-thoughts
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jonny
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #10 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 6:16pm » |
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Ya, and now we got the damn frogs saying "We will help you"....Fuckin frogs, too late suckers. you showed your true colors.
Boycott anything from France but not american run french joints, we dont want to hurt our peeps.
.................................jonny
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2late
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #11 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 6:36pm » |
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just think we ain't even scratched the surface with this piece-o-shit. the world will find out what he's been up to once we storm Bagdad! Bush is doin' a helluva job, especially tellin' France & Germany to fuckoff! veto this! ;D ...........Jack
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catlind
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #12 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 6:39pm » |
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Further to the examples that Fu stated, the History Channel recently aired 4 hours worth of documentary on Iraq, Beyond Desert Storm. The video and footage of mothers with babies in their arms laying dead in the streets from chemical warfare was horrifying.
Saddam Hussein is a vicious saddistic animal, and has proven this time and again. There is ample documentation and footage to support that and anyone who can look at the video of the torture chambers where they drop acid randomly from spigots on the ceiling on victims, rape women to keep the male population in line, and gas mothers and children in the streets and still say we should give diplomacy more time, does not, in my opinion, have a grip on the reality of the situation in Iraq.
Your party means nothing here. Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative, labour party or not, it doesn't matter, this is not about partisan politics. Milosevic was held accountable for his genocide, and his crimes against humanity aren't even close to the atrocities that the Iraqi people suffer. What's more, there is 10 times the proof of Saddam's crimes.
It is time to act, and it is time to free the people of Iraq, and let them return to their wealth of cultural history that they knew and took pride in, prior to Saddam's tyranny.
check out some of the video clips, if you have a strong stomach. If after you see the people dead in the streets, you can say to me that he should be allowed to play the games of the international diplomatic community, then you have a cold heart and a closed mind.
Cat
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| « Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2003, 7:00pm by catlind » |
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jonny
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #13 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 6:41pm » |
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on Mar 18th, 2003, 6:36pm, 2late wrote:
I would love to see a pic of Bush with the finger up grabbing his nuts with that caption under it......LMMFAO!!!! ;D
................................jonny
http://webserver.dcci.com/SA-Texan/Flash/Saddam.swf
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| « Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2003, 8:14pm by jonny » |
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jimmers
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #14 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 9:15pm » |
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To save American lives, maybe instead of bombing them. How about we drop pork sausage and bars of Irish spring soap on these mother fuckers! ;D
Seeya,
Jimmitrex
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Kcir
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #15 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 10:32pm » |
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jonny,
I now know what time it is. That was great ;D ;D ;D
Rick T
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Ted
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #16 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 11:01pm » |
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See men shredded by war and then cast your vote.
So, if this was a policy that said you're in deep shit if you violate human rights and torture people, you know, a la Jimmy Carter who cut off funds to our allies who engaged in the type of torture that was described here, I'd be all over this shit. I'd love that we were taking a moral stand such as this. But it's only been Carter that would take on anyone, INCLUDING our allies, who behaved like this. At least for that reason. Clinton took the closest stand to that by setting the bar at genocide. We'd get involved if it was genocide, but torture was OK. Now, back to what I was saying. If this was a policy letting the world know, like Carter did, that the days of torture are through while I hold the reins. Or letting the world know that the days of genocide are through while I hold the reins, like Clinton did, I would have no problem with this war becaus of the better good it would do throughout the world. But don't tell me Bush is going in there to stop torturous or genocidal policies of Iraq. And if you can't say this, why bother with this story to justify the war when there are plenty of our friends and enemies throughout the world who do this same sort of thing while we remain silent. Why does anyone think the next regime to come to power after we win this war will not be doing the same thing?
See men shredded by war. And be sure to click on the "previous" or "next" buttons.
http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/pt02.html
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BobG
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #17 on: Mar 18th, 2003, 11:32pm » |
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It's not going to matter much who is top dog after the bombing stops. The killing, the torturing, the genocide will all continue as it has for centuries.
The Kurds hate the Turks who hate the Shiitis who hate the Sunnis who hate the Arabs who hate the Iraqis will continue killing each other until the end of time. Their history demands it. Their religions demand it. They are brainwashed from babies to hate.
And they may all join together to jump on Isreal and then return to killing each other.
I agree the Saddam must go but the horror will never stop in that part of the world.
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cootie
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #18 on: Mar 19th, 2003, 12:07am » |
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The one who knows what freedom is will find a way to be free........famous quote I kinda think sounds cool.....Pam-Coots-quoter
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TammyN
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #19 on: Mar 19th, 2003, 1:02am » |
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oops, dangit... better post under my own name
-Fu
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| « Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2003, 1:14am by TammyN » |
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fubar
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #20 on: Mar 19th, 2003, 1:19am » |
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Ted,
Your point would be valid if Saddam had not already proven, through years and years blatant contempt in honoring a disarmament agreement hammered out as a term of surrender in a previous war, *and* his clearly demonstrated singular purpose of mind and action, that of acquiring and USING WMD on any country he chooses, including his own. This has been proven too many times to count.
Don't tell me you think the fact you can't find a dissertation for the purpose of a war in this article somehow discredits it or makes it less poignant. The author wasn't trying to justify a war with that. I can write on that topic all by myself.
Be Pain Free. I almost remember what that was like.
-Fu
(posting from my own accont, thank you)
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Ted
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #21 on: Mar 19th, 2003, 1:47am » |
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Nope. I'm not going on a legal technicality. I'm going on the fact tht most of the entire UN said to get a second resolution before war. The entire world agrees they NEVER said go to war at your discretion.
So, through the years and years of not paying attention to a treaty? Are you going to accept the parallel of N Korea ignoring the treaty or should I point out our ignoring treaties with Indians?
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TammyN
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #22 on: Mar 19th, 2003, 2:31am » |
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Ted,
You wanna attack North Korea? I say get ready, they are going to be next. They are also a viable and credible threat at the moment. However, the diplomatic process of dealing with the recent changes in North Korea policy has only just begun. Saddam had long enough. I'm sorry, but this time the UN couldn't make the tough call. I'm thankful as hell that my president has the balls to fix Insane Hussein's ability to threaten anybody, especially the US.
Does it suck to go to war?
Always.
Will innocent Iraqis die?
Yes, and not all from bombs. Infrastructure disruption will cause further loss of life.
Will Americans die?
Americans have already given their own lives in the conflict. More will follow.
Will this increase terrorism against the US?
In all likelihood, attempts will increase. If our ability to detect and foil these attempted attacks does not also increase, the number of successful attacks will unfortunately increase.
Ted, I could find 100 good reasons not to remove this guy RIGHT NOW, but nothing trumps the fact that we know he continues to defy attempts to disarm his country, and he continues to behave as a madman. He continues to acquire and attempt to acquire technology, components, supplies, people and capabilities all to serve one purpose only, to expand his domain of influence by use of incredible, merciless lethal force, psychological and conventional, or insane (nerve gas and the like). These are just a few of the clues in the "Dummies Guide to Maniacal demented Dictators".
Now the USA is no Dudley Doright either. In fact, our previous close relationship with Senior Hussein meant that we built nice, advanced facilities and weapons systems for this man. Funny how the US was willing to feed Hussein’s appetite for awesome weaponry… but I digress. Hey, we love to make a buck. In any case, I’m sure we know quite a lot about how Hussein behaved, what he purchased. This must scare the bejesus out of the administration, don’t you think?
-Fu
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Ted
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #23 on: Mar 19th, 2003, 3:15am » |
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Well Tammy (???), North Korea's been dealt with for more than a decade. If you remember there was the Korean war. And the were being dealt with diplomatically for more than a decade. We give them money and they abandon their Atomic Weapon program. Well, we gave them money and they've built 2 nukes already, threatened to use them against us and have the ability to build a half dozenn more by December. Saddam? Well, the best Bush says is he may someday have a nuke. But, you say N Korea's next? Where do you get your info from and why next? Even Bush admits they're more of a threat to us. Why go after the smaller threat first, unless this isn't about a threat at all but something else?
Let me try your tack and ask and answer questions.
Does Saddam need to be disarmed? Yes. At the risk of making it the very popular Al Qaeda recruitment poster when there is no imminent threat? No. That just means more US civilians will die because this president "with balls" but no brains is impatient.
Was Iraq contained and posing little threat to us?
Yes. Saddam's main goal is survival. He wouldn't attack us nor sell weapons to terrorists who consider him as Godless as America (read "as Allahless" because he knew if there was any correlation with him and a hit in the US he wouldn't survive. He was once contained, until recently.
Does pre-emptive war (which isn't a pre-emptive strike) without an imninet threat put us all at danger in this world? Look at India and Pakistan and answer that. Now, the only justification for war will be "I felt threatened" and anyone can attack anyone. North Korea's Menta Lee Ill said he was going to launch a "pre-emptive war" against us. By the new Bush policy, that's totally acceptable. Is it acceptable to you?
We are in the middle of a war on terrorism. This is an international war. Do we really want to piss off the whole world and lose much support in waging it by taking on Iraq if they don't pose an immediate threat to us?
Well, I hope we'll win no matter what. But saying "fuck you" to the world and then asking them to take on the responsibilities we need them to and lose their nationals when we've suddenly become the primary target is a little hard to swallow.
This war is more than a good feeling thing where we can say "we got them." Becaus the them ain't the ones who hit us. Despite the fact that there is now the 45% of the US population who thinks it was the Iraqis who were the hijcakoffs.
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Bob P
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Re: See men shredded, then say you don't back war
« Reply #24 on: Mar 19th, 2003, 7:39am » |
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Come on Ted. Don't give us the policy line. It's very obvious to everyone that if a Democrat was running the war, you'd be for it.
It's my impression that you suffer from a severe case of political tunnel vision.
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
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