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JohnM
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10 Ways to Avoid War
« on: Mar 11th, 2003, 1:15am » |
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10 Ways to Avoid War
by Deepak Chopra
Avoiding war can be at once the simplest and most difficult thing to do. It is simple to see that war is always a failure, a perilous risk that leads to immense misery. But it is difficult to get out of the war mentality once the mind is infected by it. Even anti-war protests can inflame the war mentality by inciting more stubbornness and resolve on the other side. To be belligerent in the name of peace is a form of war. Therefore the dilemma about over Iraq must be resolved in a way that is neither pro-war nor anti-war. Is this viable?
Recently I was caught by surprise when a newspaper reporter in Memphis said to me," You have stated that there is a creative solution to every problem. What's the creative solution to prevent the bombing of Iraq?" My answer caused a minor stir-both of outrage and support-because I suggested that if Pope John Paul, Nelson Mandela, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, the Dalai Lama, Nobel Peace Laureates, and other luminaries went to Baghdad, bombing would be impossible. My hope was that symbols of peace might be a startling reminder, if they physically traveled to Iraq, that human beings exist for a spiritual purpose higher than war, however justified that war seems.
I'd like to expand on that argument. The war mentality is blinded by fear, which fuels aggression and violence to make the fear go away. That is war in a nutshell. The other rationales are pointless, and when we obsess over them, arguing whether the U.S. is acting as savior, aggressor, imperialist, peacekeeper, world policeman, or cynical oil power, the net effect is to forget that war is about fear and using violence to "solve" it.
If you step out of the war mentality, there are not just a few creative ways to avoid an invasion of Iraq. There are dozens. If every person who doesn't want war sent in his or her suggestion about a better answer, tens of thousands of replies would flood in. Of these I 'm sure that five or six would be completely workable. Let me mention ten to begin with:
1. Congratulate President Bush on already succeeding. The presence of U.S. troops around Iraq has called Saddam's bluff. Disarmament has begun. If pressure is kept on with U.S. military presence, in the region, without dropping bombs, further progress will inevitably occur.
2. Assign prominent figures of peace to be present in Iraq constantly, along with the U.N. inspectors. Have these revered figures address the Iraqi people and the world every day on the value of peace.
3. Ask 100,000 well-wishers from around the globe to bring food and aid to Iraq's children. These people would carry humane relief in person to Baghdad.
4. Start a global Peace Corps of volunteers who will go to Iraq with the express purpose of fulfilling any humanitarian need asked for by that country.
5. Offer MTV, CNN, and Nickelodeon free to any Iraq household with a TV. Exposure to the world will make them feel like part of the world.
6. Sponsor 25,000 student exchanges for Iraqi high schoolers so that they can live for a year in Europe or the U.S.
7. Keep a tenfold number of U.N. weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq and have them report every two weeks.
8. Teach courses in all American schools on the pros and cons of globalization and multiculturalism, as opposed to instilling the false belief that nationalism is going to continue to work (war being a logical and horrendous extension of nationalism).
9. Withdraw the resented presence of U.S. troops from those regions where seeing an American army uniform inflames simmering hatred.
10. Open Disney World somewhere in the Middle East., a region where up to half the population is under the age of 15. These children are in enormous peril, not just from bombs but from cultural isolation. Let children breathe free air at a place where fun and joy abide. What better way to reduce fear and anger? At the same time, find a way to expose American children to the children of the world.
Whatever you think of these particular suggestions, the most obvious thing is how easily they arise once you stop being infected by the war mentality. Weapons of mass destruction are disposed of when they are seen as irrelevant. That is what happened with the former Soviet Union. The same can happen in the Middle East once we put our hearts into it. The choice to change history or become its next victim faces us right here, right now.
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TomM
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #1 on: Mar 11th, 2003, 8:18am » |
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While we are on the subject...
1) I support the decision made by OUR commander in chief to place our service men/women in harm's way.
2) I support our troops. I realize I just stated that but it should be stated again.
3) I am a vet but have never been in combat.
A few quotes form Flags of Our Fathers: "He talked about all the bodies laid out on the beach and how the Polish kid from Milwaukee was tortured. How they hammered his teeth, cut out his tongue, poked his eyes out, cut off his ears, almost dismembered him". "He had be bayoneted repeatedly. The back of his head had been smached in". And fianally..."They tortured my buddy. The Japanese stuffed his penis in his mouth". --Nice--
The quotes are from the forementioned book about the raising of the flag on Iwo Jima, most peticular Mount Suribachi, during WWII written by the son of one flag raiser. The only non-Marine; a Navy Corpsman and last "flag raiser/hero" of that battle to leave this world to hopefully a better, peaceful one.
So, you ask, how can I support war if I think it's so tragic?
I support the troops, thier families and the command. Sometimes we must do somethings we just do not want to do. This I learned the hard way on a few patrols in the Bering Sea and a few trips 200 miles off Cape Hatteras in a 44' small boat in raging seas just to save a few pleasure boaters lives. Sometimes you just gotta STFU and follow. Even Admirals and Gernerals take orders and MacArthur learned that the hard way.
Is Dubya right in being such a war monger? I don't think so but obviously Sadam is liar that can be trusted about as much as a $5.00 crack sleeper.
Does that mean the U.S. should march over there and show him what it means to be considered an upstanding member of the U.N.? Don't know.
What do you think? I do not have the answers and am teetering on the fence.
Here is my bottom line: I love this country with all my heart and soul. I love my brethren and thier families. Sept. 11, 2001 changed everything around the world. Thank you, religious zealots! I fear most for the families who must endure the pain of knowing thier loved one is gone. The loved one is peaceful; we will cry for them but it's the faimlies we cry for the most. And sometimes I take orders from my boss that I do not like.
Just my humble opinon.
TomM 
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Brian_Y
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #2 on: Mar 11th, 2003, 10:42am » |
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We just need to relax on this Iraq issue. Trust me, there is MUCH insanity within it....
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Woobie
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #3 on: Mar 11th, 2003, 11:53am » |
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Anybody read the book "Bush At War"? Just wondering.
Gives his PERSONAL thoughts, and reasons ... i dont know if I agree or disagree.. but it was an interesting read.
Tina
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Brian_Y
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I've not, Tina. But ya'll need to hear me out on this. There is NO way, not no how I do not support troops adnd veterans and folks who gave their lives for this country because I love this place. But I'll tell you this and I have just come to realize this: There is MUCH insanity in this Iraq thing. I am, quite frankly, frightened.
We shall see, but you mark my words....
Maybe I'm feeling "weak" cuz my wife has exited teh picture, but as I said, we shall see....
I hope all of you are well....
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The mad viking
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #5 on: Mar 11th, 2003, 1:29pm » |
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just 1 ONE way needed
remove both Saddam&Bush JR from the seat,
Svenn
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The mad viking
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #6 on: Mar 11th, 2003, 1:31pm » |
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Saddam is a mad despot and G,B is just a simple triggerhappy cowboy who want to end what he`s father was not able to do 12 years ago
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jonny
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You all just sit back and watch America and friends take out a mad man that should have been dead twelve years ago, Then you will see why France is dragging and bribing certain countries to vote aginst this.
You will see how much French writing is on aircraft part crates in Iraq and alot more.
French economy?....Can you say "Toilet"
LMMFAO
..........................jonny (JMHO
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Brian_Y
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4th largest economy in the world. The world. Their opinion means something....
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jonny
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And growing at ONLY 1% a year, America boycotts means....Toilet!!!
.............................jonny
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| « Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2003, 4:09pm by jonny » |
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RevDeFord
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #10 on: Mar 11th, 2003, 5:05pm » |
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There is not a single Iraqi who has faced the torture and oppression of Sadam's regime that will not welcome the liberation that will come from our forces. Ask the Pols, the Czecks, and any other country but France that we have liberated.
Iraq is a repressive regime that would not allow the infiltration of Western Culture to be on the TV screens.
We can not stick our head in the sand and do nothing. This is what happened before September 11 and is the reason why Iran and North Korea have developed nuclear weapons programs.
And yes Jonny, as a French American, I say damn the french. Change the name of french fries to freedom fries, change french toast to freedom toast. Kick the UN out of Iraq, and quit giving 50% of the UN's operating budget.
And, quit teaching french in school. It encourages tourism to that God forsaken place.
W. has far more knowlege from intelligence sources than we will ever know. I bet they only share 10%of what they actually know so that they don't blow their sources. If you are terrified about what you have seen thus far, you will hear of far worse once that country is liberated.
Many of those against this war are genuine. Others were totally for the war when Clinton was in office. Funny how they have changed now that W. is in. It is also funny that these same peaceniks would be shouting against any action against Afghanistan had we had the information put together before the September 11 attacks.
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Charlie
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #11 on: Mar 11th, 2003, 6:27pm » |
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Rev,
You win the prize:
Quote:| And, quit teaching french in school. It encourages tourism to that God forsaken place. |
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Charlie
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Ueli
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #12 on: Mar 11th, 2003, 6:55pm » |
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Does anyone else see racism raise its ugly head in this thread ???
Why the fuck should the French, or anybody else for that matter, help to usurp the Iraqi oil wells for the GWB clan ???
I don't know what Toni Blair hopes to gain, but one thing is sure: He will lose his job if more than a few British soldiers come to death. After all the British, as a people, are opposed to this war like the rest of Europe, including the Italians and Spaniards who have chiefs too that govern against the majority of their people (I'm talking here of 70-80% against versus <10% for this war).
Rev, are you sure to be still a proud Republican in half a years time?
A final note: This message board is about cluster headaches, not to libel those who don't share your skewed political opinion.
Peace, Ueli
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jonny
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #13 on: Mar 11th, 2003, 7:15pm » |
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The Fench dont want to help cause they have billion dollars contracts for oil with Iraq, plus they dont want us to find all that they have given Iraq in parts to airplanes.....the same with Germany.
Looks to me that Italy is sending troops in to help us....Am I wrong?
Cant see Tony Blaier loosing his job when there is no one with credibility to run against him.
Spain is with the US.
The Pope is trying to cut a deal with Sadam, is that not enough for you to realize that this needs to be done?
Stay the fuck out of the the way, America will wipe your ass for you if you cant do it yourself!!!
....................................jonny
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M.R.
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #14 on: Mar 11th, 2003, 8:13pm » |
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My thought is some of those peace loving folks want to hang out in Iraq, move in where he posioned gassed his own people. I'm sure they would like the help. Bring your "Peace-no war" signs. I don't think they will really beat you with them.
P.S. I will be a republican longer than a half a year from now.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2003, 8:21pm by M.R. » |
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Charlie
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #15 on: Mar 11th, 2003, 9:06pm » |
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Quote:| My thought is some of those peace loving folks want to hang out in Iraq......P.S. I will be a republican longer than a half a year from now |
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Great, but you evidently think that being a Republican is the way to go if you aren't peace-loving. This is a shame as Republicans are a pretty good bunch and just as peace-loving as the rest us. It’s the neo-conservatives that occupy the White House that are an embarrassment. It's a shame too, that so many of this bunch call themselves GOP. It's destroyed a great party and sent me across the aisle.
Again, the almost giddy anticipation for the coming bloodbath, and the juvenile bashing of those who question this undertaking, and call for some restraint, is mind-boggling. I’ve never seen anything like it.
Charlie
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Jarvis
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #16 on: Mar 12th, 2003, 12:58am » |
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I am with Brian on this and an american. Who the fuck are we to tell someone else how to keep there house... .If the Iraqi people dont want sadaam then where in the hell are they in all this. Lets give them the tools if they want them. . I agree somethings fishy and very frightening here. There may be WMD over there in Iraq. BUT . It is up to the world body (UN) that we were instrumental in setting up to be sure people like bush and sadaam dont get there hands on the weapons and threaten others. . We are becoming very ugly americans indeed. . It is democracy we supposedly pride ourselves on and thats obviously failed with bush and co. Yet we spit on those countries that still believe. . China, France, Germany, Russia, all have intelligence agencies to rival our own. Do you think they would really just stand by and let a madman run amuck with the power to wipe them out. They are a lot closer than us to Iraqs borders. Our economy sucks worse than france. .... I have lost thousands in recent days because of this bullshit. The sad thing is that as americans we are just standing on the sidelines, waiting and wondering just as all the world is. And doing nothing to stop these two crazed Idiots that are holdin the finger over us all. ............"The choice to change history or become its next victim faces us all right here right now."
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Cerberus
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #17 on: Mar 12th, 2003, 1:35am » |
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In keeping with the original thought in this post about ten ways to avoid war, I have to say that almost all of those solutions are invalid, only because they are impossible to carry out. I hate the idea of war as much as the next fellow, but I support American service men and women in whatever capacity they participate.
Here is another interesting thought......chew on THIS for a while, all you conspiracy theorists out there.
In the 80's the "world threat" and all around "bad guy" was Moamar Kahdahfi. he was everything hussein is today. Reagan left office and we don't hear from "Lybia" again till recently. Bush Sr. becomes Pres. and Saddam is now the new threat. We wage a "war" and everything is fine and dandy for twelve years, minus a few attitude checks. Now George Jr. take office and suddenly daddies old nemesis is a problem again. So using a syllogistic method of reasoning, If GWB goes so does Hussein. And the world moves on.
next....
Ramon
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JohnM
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #18 on: Mar 12th, 2003, 2:26am » |
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This war is going to cost the American taxpayer anything upwards of 50-100 BILLION US$
Thats a shit load of money in anyones terms.
War is not about winners and losers, it is about who can kill the most people on either side. It is the death of the civilised human spirit.
I say take all that money and much, much, more and invest it in the right way to fix the situation using the so called genius strategists you have. Focu the enegry on peace instead of war.
The problem is your boss (and my boss) does not want to spend all that money on something that does not satisfy his need to revenge Sept 11, which I doubt Saddam had anything to do with anyway.
Rather get Bush nominated for the Nobel Peace prize for fucks sake!
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Ted
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #19 on: Mar 12th, 2003, 4:35am » |
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on Mar 11th, 2003, 9:06pm, Charlie wrote:
Again, the almost giddy anticipation for the coming bloodbath, and the juvenile bashing of those who question this undertaking, and call for some restraint, is mind-boggling. I’ve never seen anything like it.
Charlie |
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Charlie. It is pretty scary. The bloodbath is coming. And the giddiness is repulsive. People talk like they don't realize others have been forced into sevice by the threat that their children will be raped if they don't sign up. Now, that's pretty much a good reason to fight this regime. It's absurd over there. But I don't see these people telling us to slaughter Iraqis because of some obscure threat and this disgusting regime telling us to to fight N Korea, who has nukes and is raping the daughters of any non-conscripts. Yes, we are going giddily into a bloodbath. Because we can do it in some abstract thought. And that's how we do it. By forgetting what and who is out there getting slaughtered. That Giddiness to the bloodbath. That's what I can't get over. Ueli, I once told you I was getting tired of you "Ugly American" And anti-American attitude. Watching the joy we are taking on the upcoming slaughter... not one side saying it has to be done, but the joy we are taking in it, makes me retract what I said. We're a nation gone mad and we're the most powerful nation out there. Please, as an American, accept my apologies for what we've become. We really were once a peace loving nation. But we've literally gone mad.
There you have it. Two sides of the war spoken with me and Crash. And we both know that that top 10 list would be the worst thing to do. Unless you like people being tortured.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2003, 4:46am by Ted » |
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TomM
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #20 on: Mar 12th, 2003, 9:11am » |
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Quote:| A final note: This message board is about cluster headaches, not to libel those who don't share your skewed political opinion. |
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Ueli--we've never really spoken before but I must disagree. This is a message board for those who HAVE clusterheadaches. And if someone decides to dicuss politics, so be it. You have a right to post your opinion and move on or leave it. Ain't FREEDOM great! And...I don't think libel applies to message boards.
The war is inevitable; I don't like it but think it is a necessary action to counteract the evil one in Iraq.
Quote:| We can not stick our head in the sand and do nothing. |
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Like the wolrd did with Hitler?
Everyone says they know someone so here it goes. I work in Washington, DC and live in a MD suburb. I have freinds and family at the State Department , Pentagon, and CIA (when you live in this in this area everyone knows someone). Quote:| W. has far more knowlege from intelligence sources than we will ever know |
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Yup, he does but that is the problem. The administration has not shared any more information with the public. We have the scoop in Sadam. He has proven time and again that he can not be trusted and is a threat to the world.
I don't write like this on this board very often but Fuck the French! Actually, this summs it up: Quote:| Change the name of french fries to freedom fries, change french toast to freedom toast. |
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TomM
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tommyD
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #21 on: Mar 12th, 2003, 6:22pm » |
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I support our troops! Indeed I do!
And the best way to support them is to not send them into a foolish and counterproductive war.
Here's one more reason to support the troops by opposing Bush's war:
http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,57959,00.html
A few excrepts for the impatient:
U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf may be armed with radioactive bombs and missiles hundreds of times more potent than similar weapons used during the Gulf War and the U.N. military campaign in Bosnia.
As evidence that the United States is expanding its use of depleted uranium weapons beyond the relatively small 30-millimeter to 120-millimeter armor-piercing bullets and shells used by tanks and tank-killer aircraft in the Gulf and Balkans, weapons watchdogs cite the so-called "bunker-buster" bombs and missiles unleashed on Afghanistan.
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Depleted uranium has a few drawbacks. It is 40 percent as radioactive as pure uranium and has a half-life of 4.5 billion years. In addition, the very volatility that makes it blaze like an atomic furnace upon impact converts a large percentage of the spent projectile into microscopic radioactive oxides that, when borne by the wind, may be inhaled by civilians miles from the battlefield.
Despite this, Pentagon and Veterans Administration brass are adamant in insisting that depleted uranium is absolutely harmless to both combatants and non-combatants, and is in no way responsible for any of the symptoms associated with so-called "Gulf War syndrome."
.......(end excrepts)
The depleted uranium shells used in the Gulf war affected Iraqis, of course, but American soldiers taking over enemy positions, or checked destroyed Iraqi tanks, were also exposed.
And if Bush intends to occupy Iraq, the contamination will be unavoidable. By spreading radiation, these are indiscriminate weapons, they kill soldiers on both sides, civilians, childen, even people who haven't been born yet. Such indiscriminate weapons are sometimes referred to as "weapons of mass destruction." The bunker buster bombs, where they made by or in the possession of anyone else, would be called "dirty bombs," conventional explosives designed to sprerad radiation or other types of toxic contamination. There is a conference in Vienna, as we speak, about how to keep rogue states from obtaining the radioactive material for dirty bombs. None of the news reports mentioned concerns at the conference that the US might already have dirty bombs.
Sorry for the rant, but this has been buggin' me all day.
-tommyD
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jonny
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #22 on: Mar 12th, 2003, 6:34pm » |
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So what you are saying Tommy is we sit here like ducks doing nothing?
Get real dude!!!!
Kill or be killed no matter what it takes thats why its called "WAR"
......................................jonny
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2late
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #23 on: Mar 12th, 2003, 6:36pm » |
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this piece of shit needs taken out now, i hope all you anti-bush folk don't think the democrats would handle this any better, they had their chance & didn't do a fucking thing. i guess in your eye's they would do better, we wouldn't be going to war, clinton would be gettin' some head (the only thing i liked about clinton) & it wouldn't be long before a nuke comes knockin' on our door. .............Jack
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jonny
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Re: 10 Ways to Avoid War
« Reply #24 on: Mar 12th, 2003, 6:39pm » |
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TOUCHE"......Jack!!!!
........................................jonny
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