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Topic: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER (Read 1204 times) |
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The mad viking
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Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« on: Nov 15th, 2003, 3:55pm » |
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I am now reading the newspapers here in Norway.
They say that USA is loosing more GOOD soldiers there then USA did the 3 first years in Vietnam.
If thats true my question then is:
Is it worth that?
Can the Iraque disaster develope to a "new"Vietnam-war".
The news here says also that USA is loosing more GOOD soldiers after your president declared that the war was over
Let there be no question who`s side Im on
Im just conserned about what i read in the news here.
No matter what ,we has to agree on 1 thing and that is that there is NO winners in a war.
Hope im not getting in to "deep shit"here,im just a bit concerned what i`m reading
Svenn
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jonny
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #1 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 4:00pm » |
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on Nov 15th, 2003, 3:55pm, Svenn wrote:| They say that USA is loosing more GOOD soldiers there then USA did the 3 first years in Vietnam. |
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Thats Bullshit!!
Ill let the Nam vets explain if they care too, I wasent there.
..............................jonny
Edit....Svenn, do they say how many the Americans are killing or is it just how many Americans are dying?
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| « Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2003, 4:02pm by jonny » |
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Virginia
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #2 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 4:05pm » |
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Svenn,
It's true that we have lost A LOT of soldiers since Bush declared the war in Iraq to be over. It's very upsetting and things have to change soon.
I don't believe we have lost any where near the number of soldiers that we lost in Vietnam. That's crazy!
But, I'm not a vet so I also can't speak with authority on the subject...
Virginia
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The Clusterhead formerly known as 9erfan.
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The mad viking
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #3 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 4:08pm » |
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I said that USA is up until to day in Iraque have LOST more good soldiers in Iraque then they did THE FIRST 3 YEARS in Vietnam Jonny NOT THE VIETNAMWAR Total
And for the record
I only refering to what i read in the newspaper here
Svenn
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jonny
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #4 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 4:14pm » |
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I know what you are saying, Svenn.
Does the newspaper tell you how many the Americans have killed? how many of the enemy?
Or is it just the American body count that they report on?
...................................jonny
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The mad viking
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #5 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 4:18pm » |
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Just the american body count
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jonny
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #6 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 4:21pm » |
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Thats what the media is doing here to and it pisses me the fuck off!!
BASTARDS
.................................jonny
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The mad viking
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #7 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 4:22pm » |
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Dont shot me Jonny.Just telling you what i read over here
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jonny
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #8 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 4:27pm » |
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Svenn my brother....im not mad at you, im mad at the American media for only reporting American deaths and not how many enemy our boys killed.
I know we are killing ten to twenty of them to every dude we lose, but the fucks dont report that.
..............................jonny
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| « Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2003, 4:29pm by jonny » |
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jonny
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #10 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 4:55pm » |
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Very good link, Grant.
Makes me, Hmmmmmm
............................................jonny
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Charlie
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #11 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 5:02pm » |
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Oh my.
It sounds plausible that we have lost more men in Iraq than in the first 3 years of Nam. It was well before we really got deep into the mess.
Is it another Vietnam? Not really. Vietnam was pretty much a civil war at first. Europe was happy to let us work on Vietnam for awhile...Yikes, what a mess we were handed.
The one way it is like Vietnam is that it makes no difference to compare body counts. Doesn’t mean a thing to them. Comparing dead and maimed children is no fun either.
I read that Bush & Co. are thinking of bringing home 100,000 troops in 2004.....right in time for the election of course.......Sadly, I think it's a bad idea. I can't deny the world is better off without Saddam though. Now that we are there we need the men. Fewer troops only make it more dangerous for those who remain.
How nice it would be if a new Iraq happens but if it does, it's gonna cost us lots more time, money and some more dead people. It's just the way it is. It has probably become one of those things where leaving now would be worse than staying. The good guys never seem to get a break. I don’t like it but I think it’s true.
By the way, it's harder to find news like this in our papers. Too much of our media has to play ball some with corporate owners; especially TV. Oslo papers probably don’t have this problem so give Svenn some wiggle room.
Charlie
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| « Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2003, 5:04pm by Charlie » |
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River_Rat
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #12 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 5:05pm » |
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I don't even know what to say about all that, I voted for George W. and I know we needed to to do something, But I'm not smart enough to know what.
One thing I do know is if someone tried to kill my dad I would do what ever I had to, to nail that f u c k e r what do ya think, do you think George was just getting revenge?
LEE
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kim
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #13 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 5:30pm » |
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Media ...........why take a stroll .........happens all the time.
Global support for this current situation LIENS toward the "u-no-what"...........why would the GLOBAL news relfect anything BUT.
Read the books, learn the history and try as hard as you can to think .......think..........think.
It takes a lot of time and energy and most of all it takes independent thought. Something the media abhores.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2003, 6:02pm by kim » |
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Unsolved
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #14 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 6:04pm » |
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on Nov 15th, 2003, 4:27pm, jonny wrote:
I know we are killing ten to twenty of them to every dude we lose, but the fucks dont report that.
..............................jonny
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Sad to say, but sometimes the others (like the vietnamese) find this ratio acceptable.
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Charlie
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #15 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 6:14pm » |
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Is Dubyua getting some revenge? I suppose there's some of that but I don't think he'd invade for that alone.
George has a only a few people he listens to. Certainly Carl Rove, and he pays even more attention to Dick Cheney. Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith are in the mix too. These are the guys who got the ball rolling, and I think too hastily and with bad intelligence. Saddam isn't bin Laden but people don't seem to care.
They don't read history either. Kim's right.
I wish Bush had just parked the Abraham Lincoln in the Persian Gulf and told the creep it was there to stay. Even Saddam and his thugs would realize they'd be toast if they farted sideways.
Charlie
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kim
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #16 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 6:28pm » |
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makes me nervous when media influenced dialogue - like a high wind across a barren corn field turns the head of a fickle masss bownd and tetermined to swing like a penjulim the objectives they never learned in the first place.
Times are tense and victory is not fantasmagoric. I know not one that ever was. Difficult times force dificult solutions and none are accomplished in the way we would expect, much less write as journalists about. Better to stroke our pen in the face of the one writing the words - it's easier and make us more popular - more "visual".
Time bends and morphs. It goes round in circles and I am tired of the same ole argument - for we never learn the anwswer and we never produce the solution; in fact i'm quite sure we have not even asked the right questions. We squawk and tear at ourselves until something else comes along to divert our attention; and so - it goes.
Sensen 
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Charlie
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #17 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 6:48pm » |
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At a loss, Charlie 
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kim
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #18 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 7:33pm » |
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(smile.......) sorta......Charlie,
Brian is tinkerin on guitar right now. Guess wat he's pickin at............
He is playing a beautiful interpretation of the song from "Deer Hunter"............it really is lovely and kinda lonely sound, full of hope, let down and trying to put everything into perspective....................
We gotta find a way to each other*
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BobG
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #19 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 8:28pm » |
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Svenn, your newspapers are as full of crap as ours are in in the USA.
Charlie is right.
And so is Kim (I think)
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Patrick_A
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #20 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 9:03pm » |
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on Nov 15th, 2003, 5:02pm, Charlie wrote:Oh my.
Is it another Vietnam? Not really. Vietnam was pretty much a civil war at first. Europe was happy to let us work on Vietnam for awhile...Yikes, what a mess we were handed.
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Up front it may have seemed like a Civil War, but in truth it was one of the outcomes of the "Cold War" with the Soviet Union. Democracy vs Communism!
Patrick
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Ree
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #21 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 9:05pm » |
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Why doesnt everyone here talk to someone that has been over there... or been in the conflicts in Afghanistan. I have done that this week and Im out of any of these conversations from now on... so each of you that actually think you know what it is that is going on... grab a veteran... have a chat... God bless these kids that love the people of Iraq and ARE trying to help them. God forgive the people that put Ak47's in the arms of 10 year olds. God protect us all from terrorism near and far... ree
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kim
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #22 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 9:26pm » |
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Ree, i understand.
Not one person here has spoken AGAINST our troops ....so please don't bring that up in this discussion....we are all exhausted ....we are wanting the same thing .in the end....we just feel like tawkin together, quiet like on how to get there............okay? You are not the only one...........*don't mean to sound mean*
i read a lot. I think on the stuff happening now and how it got to be this way......i think what shall we do to make it better.............all. the. time. I prik my ears at every outburst and litergy..........and it ALL makes me sad, it smacks of discontent and i fear the futire.....i see the circle turning.
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ClusterChuck
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #23 on: Nov 15th, 2003, 10:06pm » |
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Ree, I love you, dear, but on this one, I have to disagree with you. I am SO proud of your son, and what he has done, and continues to do for our country.
But, unfortunately, virtually every veteran will tell you the same thing. The veteran sees what is happening in the field, what is happening on that particular battle ground, but other than that, they are treated as mushrooms: Kept in the dark, and fed shit!
It was the same during Vietnam, and most likely all other conflicts/wars. Young, brave, patriotic men (and women) were out there sacrificing their lives, and had no idea what was really going on over the whole sphere. The "pee-ons" were just told to do something, and not the reasons why.
As has been said many times before, we would have a lot fewer wars if the old men that make the decisions were put out there on the front line.
Chuck
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Cerberus
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Re: Usa VS Iraque NONCLUSTER
« Reply #24 on: Nov 16th, 2003, 12:52am » |
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Svenn,
I don't know what the "stats" are on this recently. We are and have lost quite a few soldiers since the "Over" declaration. As many as the first 3 years of Nam? NOT LIKELY! Again, not sure of the "stats".
Worth it ? I reckon its relative, is it worth it to remove a genocidal maniac from power? When there are no more Americans dying in Iraq then we'll count the cost and decide if it was worth it.
I wasn't in Nam, I wasn't in the gulf in the 90's, and I wasn't there this time either. If I have to decide now if it was worth it, I am not qualified. I DO SO VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ALL EFFORT GIVEN AND ALL COST COUNTED/ING. Our G.I.'s Rock.
TO those home and still there......................THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH!
Ramon
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