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Topic: Food Triggers??? (Read 8641 times) |
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MinxKittten
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Food Triggers???
« on: Apr 16th, 2008, 2:32am » |
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Well, from what i can tell, not alot of you have "EATING" as a trigger for CH. but my husband, when he is in cycle, has major touble with eating. seems like when he eats, he gets a CH within about an hour.
i'm convinced that certain foods have to be worse for him than others, but i can't find any reliable info on this.
i was thrilled to find a book called the "headache prevention cook book" only to be bummed that half the reviews on it were NEGATIVE.
so maybe yall can help me figure out what foods he should avoid and more importantly, what foods he CAN eat without getting a headache. (poor guy is starving) as starving for him is better than more CH.
here's what i know so far:
1. of course we avoid the well known triggers like wine, alcohol, chocolate, MSG and cheese.
2. last week the doc told us to avoid nitrites found in most cold cuts, processed meats, hot dogs and pork.
3. my personal observation believes that vinagar based salad dressing gives him a more severe CH, (although he doesn't believe it)
4. thought i read somewhere that tomatoes were a trigger, which i'm assuming would include salsa, again i can't get him to accept that.
5. 90% of the canned soups out there have MSG 
PLEASE HELP ME try to figure out what might go down smoother and is easy to digest without being a HA trigger.
i'm open to any and all suggestions.
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Bob_Johnson
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #2 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 8:55am » |
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A search in Pub Med (the bible for medical literature) reveals a no current report on the relationship between CH and diet. The most "current" abstract was from the mid-1980s.
The only "food" which we accept as being an important trigger is alcohol and even here, a single report from Europe, several years ago, suggested that white wine was the exception. (I think many folks would add solvents as a trigger.)
When this site was first started, the issue of food triggers was a major topic. In time, it was clear that this was largely speculative for limited clinical trials didn't confirm foods as being a widely based/consistent trigger.
Individual variation is always a possibility but, it appears that food, as a general issue, is not something which most people have to be concerned about.
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Bob Johnson
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seasonalboomer
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #3 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 9:19am » |
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Every time I've thought I'd figured out a food trigger, I later prove it wrong.
Alcohol, when in cycle, is the only ingestible trigger I have - red wine and chocolate combined, is a supercharged versino of the same thing.
Scott
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Guiseppi
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #4 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 10:03am » |
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I guess I'm fortunate as alcohol is the only consisten food trigger for me. Funny though, if I "starve myself" like your husband is doing, that is allow myself to get reallly really hungry, that's a trigger for me.
Said it before but deserves repeating, you're a hell of a supporter, thanks.
Guiseppi
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darknight
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #5 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 11:42am » |
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Ive never experienced a ch attack from food but i have when i miss meals!!!
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AussieBrian
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #6 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 12:01pm » |
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AussieBrian's Famous Meatloaf
Equal parts ground beef and sausage meat.
Chopped onion, garlic, finely-sliced celery and a beaten egg.
Salt, pepper, rosemary, thyme, Worcestershire sauce, breadcrumbs.
One quarter of 10% of a small baby carrot, finely grated, sliced, diced, boiled and pureed.
Mix all ingredients well and form into a 'loaf'. Bake in a medium/hot oven for 1hr 30mins, basting between beers, then decant and allow 15 minutes to set.
Great served hot with pan gravy and seasonal vegetables or chilled, fine sliced, to go with fresh salad or onto sandwiches.
Disclaimer: If cooking for CHeads, consider cutting back on the carrot.
Bon apetit,
B.
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AlienSpaceGuy
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #7 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 12:13pm » |
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The most important thing is to forget about that infamous migraine trigger list. It contains everything that that some migraineur in the last 200 years thought it might be a trigger.
Furthermore, migraine trigger are thought to last for 24 hours. For CH the effect of a trigger is immediate, less than 5 minutes in case of alcohol, up to about half an hour for something that goes through the intestines.
I've never heard that chocolate or nitrites are triggers for CH. Fully ripened cheese can contain lots of histamines that might be a trigger for some; the usual rubbery cheese does not have a large amount histamines.
If he is sensitive to MSG (like myself) salad is probably a trigger: A few years ago I checked out about 20 brands of vinegar and ready-made salad dressing and all but one were laced with MSG, one really obnoxious vinegar was MSG free. Therefore, I have given up salad. But if your DH insists on salad, a replacement for MSG loaded vinegar would be lemon juice (but check for MSG  ).
Tomatoes are sometimes sprayed with MSG, but by cooking them some natural MSG develops.
In the declarations (if any) MSG is usually hidden by euphemisms like flavor-enhancers, natural flavorings, hydrolyzed vegetable protein, yeast extract and many more.
For Friedrich:
I wouldn't trust an article that put aspartame and MSG in the same pot.
There is a year long defamation campaign in e-mails and all sort of 'health related' articles, probably originating from the sugar industry. Read what snopes.com has to say about these horror stories.
On the other hand The Truth about MSG not only exposes all the hazards of this nerve poison, but also exposes the tricks and cheats its lobby uses to play down the dangers.
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MJ
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #8 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 12:15pm » |
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I think many of us at one time felt various foods were triggers of CH.
Like Boomer said next time around we found what we thought were triggers were not.
I phsycologically without real proof feel strawberries and high acid citrus are stiil possible triggers in a deep cycle.
Definate triggers for me are perfumes, alcohol and Walmart.
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CostaRicaKris
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #9 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 2:02pm » |
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on Apr 16th, 2008, 12:01pm, AussieBrian wrote:AussieBrian's Famous Meatloaf
Equal parts ground beef and sausage meat.
Chopped onion, garlic, finely-sliced celery and a beaten egg.
Salt, pepper, rosemary, thyme, Worcestershire sauce, breadcrumbs.
One quarter of 10% of a small baby carrot, finely grated, sliced, diced, boiled and pureed.
Mix all ingredients well and form into a 'loaf'. Bake in a medium/hot oven for 1hr 30mins, basting between beers, then decant and allow 15 minutes to set.
Great served hot with pan gravy and seasonal vegetables or chilled, fine sliced, to go with fresh salad or onto sandwiches.
Disclaimer: If cooking for CHeads, consider cutting back on the carrot.
Bon apetit,
B. |
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How do you cut back on "One quarter of 10% of a small baby carrot, finely grated, sliced, diced, boiled and pureed."?
Seriously, I was going to make meatloaf tonight. THanks for the recipe.
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Sandy_C
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #10 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 5:49pm » |
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I absolutely cannot touch beer and wine especially red wine, while in cycle, although I can drink vodka with a little tonic?????
The only other food group that seems to trigger a CH hit while in cycle, although not always, is beef (red meat).
I love a good, rare steak, but when in cycle, it's not on my menu, much to my husband's dismay. He goes through my entire cycle eating chicken, pasta, chicken, pasta, and maybe, if he's been really good, a little bit of spare ribs.
I'm just not willing to risk red meat, beer or wine in cycle. It's not worth it.
Sandy
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cluster
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Aspartame and nitroglycerin
« Reply #11 on: Apr 18th, 2008, 5:02am » |
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on Apr 16th, 2008, 12:13pm, AlienSpaceGuy wrote:
For Friedrich:
I wouldn't trust an article that put aspartame and MSG in the same pot.
There is a year long defamation campaign in e-mails and all sort of 'health related' articles, probably originating from the sugar industry. Read what snopes.com has to say about these horror stories.
On the other hand The Truth about MSG not only exposes all the hazards of this nerve poison, but also exposes the tricks and cheats its lobby uses to play down the dangers.
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Hello Ueli,
here is a CH patient's report about a single blinded, placebo controlled aspartame self test:
Quote:
(Google translation)
The thing with the aspartame, I investigated further. With my wife, I have two weeks a "blind test". We ate every day as dessert Quark. In the two weeks this was 10 days sweetened with sugar and four days (which I did not know) with sweetener (aspartame). The result was clear! In the two weeks I got four seizures, each immediately after the enjoyment of aspartame. I now avoid the stuff and the other triggers (Glutamate etc. when possible).
Source (German): http://www.clusterheadaches.de/Berichte/Bericht_1/bericht_1.html
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Please see also: Google search results for aspartame at ch.com
From the link you posted above: (The Truth about MSG)
Quote:
With one exception, aspartame and processed free glutamic acid (MSG) cause identical adverse reactions in people who are sensitive to them.(2) In addition, the free glutamic acid found in MSG and the free aspartic acid found in aspartame both have been shown to kill brain cells and cause subsequent endocrine disorders in laboratory animals.(4) (We don't do such experiments on humans.)
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Aspartame and processed free glutamic acid (MSG) cause identical adverse reactions ???
Now to something completely different:
In 1968 Ekbom(1) reported latency periods between 12 and 72 minutes after the sublingual administration of 1mg nitroglycerin and the induced CH attacks. 2004 Sances(2) reported latency periods of 65.4 ± 54.7 min. (mean ± standard deviation), range: 15 – 180 min., after sublingual administration of 0.9 mg nitroglycerin sublingually and subsequent CH attacks.
Please see also: http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/120/2/283 - The free full text PDF is available there.
Nitroglycerin sublingually works within minutes for the treatment of angina pectoris, but it seems to take a much longer time before CH attacks are induced?
Digestion and metabolism of food can take several hours. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestion
on Apr 16th, 2008, 12:13pm, AlienSpaceGuy wrote:
For CH the effect of a trigger is immediate, less than 5 minutes in case of alcohol, up to about half an hour for something that goes through the intestines.
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Why do you think this ? - Any sound scientific reasons ?
1. Ekbom K.: Nitrolglycerin as a provocative agent in cluster headache. Arch Neurol. 1968; 19(5): 487-93. PMID 4971733.
2. Sances G, Tassorelli C, Pucci E, Ghiotto N, Sandrini G, Nappi G.: Reliability of the nitroglycerin provocative test in the diagnosis of neurovascular headaches. Cephalalgia. 2004 Feb; 24(2): 110-9. PMID 14728706
More data about the nitroglycerin provocative test and latency periods (German):
http://www.ck-wissen.de/ckwiki/index.php?title=Nitroglyzerin-Provokation stest
pf wishes,
Friedrich
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cluster
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Diet ???
« Reply #12 on: Apr 18th, 2008, 5:06am » |
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Some more information about low purine and low histamine diet:
Edith and Herbert Renneberg have recorded in detail what Herbert has eaten and what his cluster headache pattern was for more than 18 years. Their conclusion/hypothesis is that a low purine diet, strictly adhered to for about two weeks is beneficial for him. After the two weeks he gradually starts to include normal food into his diet and stays pain free. Some German CH patients have tried a low purine diet with success and some others have tried it without success. A low purine diet (sometimes called gout diet) may not give the full nutrition value required, so nobody should be on such a diet for too long. The target of such a diet is to reduce levels of uric acid in the body. A "side effect" of the diet may be the avoidance of individual CH food triggers, if there are any.
For purine and purine content of food see e.g.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purine
http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/diet-and-gout
Histamine and perhaps other biogenic amines (WP Link biogenic amine) may have an influence on cluster headache; histamine injections can trigger CH attacks. Some CH patients benefit from histamine desensitization. Levels of histamine are increased in blood serum and in the urine excretion of people suffering from cluster headache. If a healthy person eats food with too much histamine, this histamine will just leave the body at the other end. Some people seem to have problems with too much histamine in food, and some combinations of food and some medications may increase histamine levels in the body in some people. For details please read the literature review written by Laura Maintz and Natalija Novak: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/1185
I think the information in this article gave me a better understanding of my headache diary, food eaten and attacks suffered, and I think my condition improved by using the information about the histamine content of food, histamine liberators etc. and avoiding such food. Sometimes hunger may be a trigger for me but avoiding histamine has nothing to do with hunger. I do eat as much as I like, I just don’t eat the stuff which I think is not good for me. Of course this is just my personal experience, the improvement may be coincidental, and a low-histamine diet will surely not work for all CH patients but hopefully it may work for some. The target of such a diet is not just trigger avoidance; it is to lower the level of histamine in the body. My gut feeling is that when histamine adds up I'm having bad times and when I reduce my histamine intake things get better.
As far as I know there is no scientific study about a relation between food and cluster headache. Please correct me, if I’m wrong. IMHO a CH patient who suspects food triggers could try a low purine diet or a low histamine diet and see what happens.
pf wishes,
Friedrich
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MinxKittten
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #13 on: Apr 18th, 2008, 11:06am » |
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Thank you for the info, very interesting....
as for the purines,
"Examples of high purine sources include: sweetbreads, anchovies, sardines, liver, beef kidneys, brains, meat extracts, herring, mackerel, scallops, game meats, and gravy." HE DOESN'T EAT ANY OF THESE. ALTHOUGH ON THANKSGIVING HE HAD GRAVY AND HAD A WHOPPER OF A HEADACHE!
"A moderate amount of purine is also contained in beef, pork, poultry, fish and seafood, asparagus, cauliflower, spinach, mushrooms, green peas, lentils, dried peas, beans, oatmeal, wheat bran and wheat germ."
HE DOES EAT SOME MEAT, TUNA AND POULTRY, BUT THAT SEEMS TO GO DOWN WELL. I JUST ORDERED SOME TALL GRASS FED PURE ORGANIC BEEF, THAT HAS NO PRESERVATIVES OR NITRATES TO SEE IF THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. (it hasn't come yet) THE ONLY THING ELSE ON THIS LIST THAT HE'S EATING IS LENTIL SOUP, CUZ THATS THE ONLY CANNED SOUP ON THE SHELF WITH NO MSG.
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MinxKittten
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #14 on: Apr 18th, 2008, 11:17am » |
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the Histamine thing makes sense too.
he already avoids most everything on that list, (aged cheeses, wines, etc) with the exception of citrus,
sometimes an orange in evening seems to go down well, but sometimes not. guess we need to eliminate that too.
thanks for all that info....
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AussieBrian
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #15 on: Apr 19th, 2008, 11:05am » |
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on Apr 18th, 2008, 11:17am, MinxKittten wrote:| ..sometimes an orange in evening seems to go down well, but sometimes not. guess we need to eliminate that too |
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How long until he starves?
Many CHeads will tell you that regular meals, regardless how much we don't feel like eating and how little we actually eat, are of paramount importance.
Miss a feed and and the headaches are on for young and old, but the day when one orange (morning or evening) matters so much suggests to me that you are focussing far too much in one direction only.
We're just a rat-bag mob of CHeads and we support our supporters completely (be lost without you) but feed him up, will you? Please!!
However will he fight this monster if all he's allowed is a glass of water, perhaps?
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RichardN
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #16 on: Apr 19th, 2008, 12:14pm » |
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Hi jacq
I assume 02 still not working for him? Was really hoping for a pm advising he had finally been able to abort at early stage.
I know he's had these things for 28 years . . . and this time around has been the worst. How long do his cycles normally last?
Since he's on Topomax this time (and I have no experience with it) . . . is there a "usual" amount of time for the Topomax to work? And no, he didn't do a Pred taper.
Really hope you both can get a break soon.
Be Safe, PFDANs
Richard
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MinxKittten
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #17 on: Apr 19th, 2008, 10:38pm » |
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on Apr 19th, 2008, 11:05am, AussieBrian wrote:
How long until he starves?
Many CHeads will tell you that regular meals, regardless how much we don't feel like eating and how little we actually eat, are of paramount importance.
Miss a feed and and the headaches are on for young and old, but the day when one orange (morning or evening) matters so much suggests to me that you are focussing far too much in one direction only.
We're just a rat-bag mob of CHeads and we support our supporters completely (be lost without you) but feed him up, will you? Please!!
However will he fight this monster if all he's allowed is a glass of water, perhaps?
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i know what you're saying, its hard for me to understand the food thing. if it was me, i think i'd eat and deal with the pain, but i've never had that kind of pain, so maybe i can't say.
he says he'd rather starve than have the pain that comes when he eats.
poor guy only eats one meal a day. he's down almost 30 lbs and he was never fat to begin with.
i got him some new protein drinks, that have no sugar, ISOPURE that have 40 grams of protein. i used to drink these after my intestinal surgery where i couldn't eat at all. they keep your strength up. those seem to be going down OK, so we're gonna get some more of those. at least his muscles won't atrophe if we can keep some protein in him.
and i'm looking forward to the organic grass fed beef that has no nitrate additives.
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MinxKittten
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #18 on: Apr 19th, 2008, 10:48pm » |
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on Apr 19th, 2008, 12:14pm, RichardN wrote: Hi jacq
I assume 02 still not working for him? Was really hoping for a pm advising he had finally been able to abort at early stage.
I know he's had these things for 28 years . . . and this time around has been the worst. How long do his cycles normally last?
Since he's on Topomax this time (and I have no experience with it) . . . is there a "usual" amount of time for the Topomax to work? And no, he didn't do a Pred taper.
Really hope you both can get a break soon.
Be Safe, PFDANs
Richard |
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Hi richard,
no, he's still not that into the O2. he finally admitted that its a mental block because he dad was on O2 when he was ill for his later years. the association makes him feel like an ill old man. but i'm still trying to push it on him. Linda sent me a bubbler, so we'll try to add that.
yesterday he only had 3 HA's which is better. and today only 2 so far, a 6 and a 3.
we've been together for just over 4 years, so as to the length of the cycles, usually 4-6 months, since i've known him, but this one, almost 9 months now.
his HA are usually on the right side, when he has a Left side they are 10 times worse. he was 7 months into the right side and they were winding down then he wacked his head on the job and by the next day he had a left side cycle. now he's into the left side.
but the last few days have been better, so hopefully, we're winding down.
thanks so much for calling. he did say he appreciated it and understood why i asked you to call.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
i think it was more he was just starting lunch when you called and he's always so STARVING he didn't really hunker down to talk, cuz he wanted to EAT! lol!
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MJ
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #19 on: Apr 20th, 2008, 1:39am » |
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Hi Mkitten.
Please dont take this the wrong way but sometimes maybe a supporter can be overly supportive.
In 4 years you may not be able to fix something your mate has been dealing with for many years more.
Research and understanding is a wonderfull thing and should continue.
I would think your mate should by now after many years know what helps and what doesnt.
Possibly the most important thing like others said is to not alter your lifestyle as much as possible. This would include diets, eating habits, wake cycles, social outings if possible. Granted we all want a cure, as of yet none exists.
For many, seemingly simple changes in medications can prolong or intensify a cycle. The same can happen by adding or substituting a new diet for what our bodies have become accustomed to. Thus sometimes what appear as triggers are just a change in metabolisms causing the body to react in different ways. Normality is the key.
Do not force him on anything except attitudes. Clusterheads Live life between the hits. You must live life for you and around the hits.
Not trying to upset the love and care your showing. Hang in there I know your trying.
I too have had this affliction in a major way for well over 30 years like many posting here.
Fix up some pancakes, eggs and fresh bacon and enjoy. Better yet go out and get some, now would be a good time for the both of you.
If a hit comes it will also go.
Questions; How often is he hit in a day? Are the hits sporadic or at similar times.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2008, 1:43am by MJ » |
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MinxKittten
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #20 on: Apr 20th, 2008, 10:52am » |
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thanks MJ, no offense taken.
trust me, he's strong willed and doesn't let me push him into anything.
i just give him what information i find and he does what he wants with it.
up till now, i stay out of it completely, but because this cycle has been longer and more intense and he seems defeated, i got more involved.
our only point of disagreement is the oxygen, he's not that into it, and i wish he would give it more of a chance. we just got it new a couple of weeks ago.
as for the timing of the HA, first one of the day ALWAYS is within 1-1.5 hours after eating his lunch.
in the AM he has toast and coffee, goes to work, then comes home, has lunch, then BAM. then he has 1-2 in the evening before bed. he doesn't eat dinner or he would have them all nite.
usually he has 1-2 during the nite, but not as bad as the afternoon or evening ones.
every now and then, we do go out for a nice big breakfast, but it just starts the whole cycle earlier as he'll get hit not long after breakfast.
what he chooses to eat or not eat is NOT my decision, its HIS. he knows what the obvious triggers are. he was just hoping to identify the more subtle ones so that somehow he could eat more than one meal a day.
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RichardN
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #21 on: Apr 20th, 2008, 12:26pm » |
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Hi jacq
OXYGEN STIGMA
Keeps many from trying 02. I should have recognized that may have been a problem.
There have been many posts over the years where folks stated that if this/that med doesn't work . . . surgery considered . . . "if all else fails, will have to try the oxygen" . . . because of the stigma associated with 02.
We have owned some woods acreage for 20 yrs (hope to begin moving there this year) . . . and have a good friend/neighbor there (VietNam vet . . ex Marine, and amazing race car/engine builder) who had a surprising (to me) reaction when I had an attack while visiting him a couple years ago. I got my tank out of the van and started huffing/rocking/pacing around his shop . . . of course telling him that I was aborting an attack.
The look on his face spoke volumes . . . . even after I aborted the hit. He could have been looking at my corpse in the coffin. It wasn't until my next visit a couple weeks later that he explained that everyone he had ever known that "went on oxygen" . . . wasn't around for very long.
We don't use 02 because of respiratory problems or low blood-oxygen levels . . . we use it because hi-flo 02 IS a vasoconstrictor and aborts attacks. I, by the way, have had my blood/oxygen level checked and it was a little higher than the mid-twenties nurse (I'm 61) who checked it.
Not only do I not hide my tank, on many occasions I've used it in very public places (getting that "poor thing" look, and offers of rides to the ER, etc), then . . . after aborting the hit, explaining CH and the reason why we use 02. This has helped me identify friends relatives or friends of friends who, "has headaches like that", or "had CH for years" . . . and allowing me to pass along the info re 02. Education is the key . . . anywhere . . . anytime!
Nuff said
Be Safe, PFDANs
Richard
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I can live with the beast as long as I don't have to "dance" with the bastard.
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vietvet2tours
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #22 on: Apr 20th, 2008, 3:17pm » |
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agreeing with RichardN. Enough said.
Potter
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Kill em all let God sort em out
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jon019
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #23 on: Apr 20th, 2008, 7:53pm » |
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Richard,
WOW, what an amazing post. I've had to read it several times cuz I kept slapping my head (Helen will appreciate that) and saying OH YEAH!...
stigma? criminy, I've always wondered where docs get their (fear, reluctance, hard headedness) re O2. Now I think I get it, at least a little bit.
Have gotten the look you describe several times. Also allowed me to educate, on occasion, a little bit about ch. Still, that's a real tough time to think about anything but yourself. Good on ya. I just want to crawl in a hole.
One of my biggest regrets is the ONE time I was pulled aside by a pharmacist who was obviously thirsty for knowledge re ch. Was so shocked at the interest, and so hurting, that I only gave her the short version (anyone here could talk for hours). Damn, that's not gonna happen again.
Great advice, great insight. THANK YOU!
Regards,
Jon
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"The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names." (that's cluster headache doc)
Chinese proverb
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Becky
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Welcome to my world Now go home!!!
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Re: Food Triggers???
« Reply #24 on: Apr 25th, 2008, 6:32am » |
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I was given the usual anti-migrain list from my Gp, which included coffee!! Then I found out from this site that caffine will abort a ch and it works for me.
I havnt found a food yet that will start an attack, like many here I have found that if I skip a meal this will bring on an attack.
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