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Braindead
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Verapamil Question
« on: Mar 30th, 2008, 2:09pm » |
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HI,
As some may know I was on the lithium for two weeks. It seemed to move my headache to the front of my head during the daytime, tho the cluster was gone at night. Anyway I was also getting sik from the stuff so I am now on 480mg of Verapamil.
Besides taking tons of various laxative/fiber's to go #2 because it plugged me up for 5 DAYS!! Ouch that was bad. Ok thats under control. And no real bad side effects from the stuff so far.
So heres the question: My clusters after 2 weeks are gone with the Verap 480mg, BUT I wake up with a screaming migraine EVERY morning (exept today) Thanks god a break. I wonder If need more than the 480mg. Anyone else had this happen? The migraine is way better than the cluster and I do get sleep- but man give a a guy a break here!!
Denis
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Annette
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #1 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 2:21pm » |
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I dont think increasing the Verap will work for migraine. Are you sure its migraine ?
There are a lot of things you can take for migraine including some simple OTC pain relief and then sleep it off, or imitrex tablet which doesnt do much for CH but works well for migraine.
My husband who has CH also has migraines. He had a couple of those when the CH cycle stopped. It was such mild pain compared to CH that he didnt bother to take anything but a couple of disprin ( aspirin ) and that was it.
You need be sure they are migraines though.
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Braindead
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #2 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 2:34pm » |
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on Mar 30th, 2008, 2:21pm, Annette wrote:
I dont think increasing the Verap will work for migraine. Are you sure its migraine ?
There are a lot of things you can take for migraine including some simple OTC pain relief and then sleep it off, or imitrex tablet which doesnt do much for CH but works well for migraine.
My husband who has CH also has migraines. He had a couple of those when the CH cycle stopped. It was such mild pain compared to CH that he didnt bother to take anything but a couple of disprin ( aspirin ) and that was it.
You need be sure they are migraines though.
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Cant be 100% certain although I want to barf, and it feels way different from a cluster as well as a different spot (front lobe). Relpax is the ONLY thing that takes it away. Tried all/most OTC stuff. Relpax also takes away my clusters. ( until it wears off) These are less than the cluster but still a 6 IMHO which is nasty and will last all day into the early night maybe 8pm if un-treated.
Thanks for the reply VERY much appreciated.
Denis
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Annette
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #3 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 3:01pm » |
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It sounds like migraine if its more frontal, making you sick and lasting all day. However a migraine that sits around a kip6 pain level is bad ! Could it be a bad CH shadow ? A bad CH shadow can be kip 5-6 and can last a lot longer than an actual CH hit, often hours and sometimes all day.
Do you normally get migraine when out of cycle?
I guess if only relpax works then relpax will have to be the answer then.
Anyway, Verap isnt commonly used for migraines as it doesnt work very well. For people with chronic migraines, docs usually prescribe beta blocker instead of calcium blocker.
There is a possibility that the verap is working with your CH so instead of full blown CH attacks you are now getting heavy shadowing. Or they indeed can be migraines, bit strange that they occur every morning upon waking though. Its hard to tell which is which when you have more than 1 headache type happening at the same time.
Whatever they are, I hope you will get them no more.
Take care and painfree wishes.
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Braindead
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #4 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 3:39pm » |
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on Mar 30th, 2008, 3:01pm, Annette wrote:
It sounds like migraine if its more frontal, making you sick and lasting all day. However a migraine that sits around a kip6 pain level is bad ! Could it be a bad CH shadow ? A bad CH shadow can be kip 5-6 and can last a lot longer than an actual CH hit, often hours and sometimes all day.
Do you normally get migraine when out of cycle?
I guess if only relpax works then relpax will have to be the answer then.
Anyway, Verap isnt commonly used for migraines as it doesnt work very well. For people with chronic migraines, docs usually prescribe beta blocker instead of calcium blocker.
There is a possibility that the verap is working with your CH so instead of full blown CH attacks you are now getting heavy shadowing. Or they indeed can be migraines, bit strange that they occur every morning upon waking though. Its hard to tell which is which when you have more than 1 headache type happening at the same time.
Whatever they are, I hope you will get them no more.
Take care and painfree wishes.
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Interesting I guess I always here the word "shadows" on here but never knew what that meant or took for granted it is a by product of the cluster... Which it may just be. Yes I am a headache prone individual, lots of migrainish type headches when out of cycle. Typicaly every other saturday or sunday.. Weird yes, but true.
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chewy
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After 2 weeks of being CH pain free and symptom free I begin tapering off the verapamil.
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Annette
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #6 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 4:07pm » |
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It took us a while to pinpoint what shadow really means too. I guess the best way to describe a shadow is like those dark stormy looking clouds that hang over your head, making you feel doom and gloom and threatening a possible heavy storm ( CH attack ) which may or may not manifest. Having a shadow is like that but its in your head. Its a lower kip headache with some CH characteristics but not the sharp drilling pain in the eye like in an acute attack. Its annoying like hell and it hurts, although much less. It may or may not build up into a full blown CH. It often hangs around for hours and sometimes all day. It may go all by itself.
People find various things can get rid of a shadow such as some OTC simple pain meds, Red bull or strong coffee. When a shadow builds up worse some would reach for oxygen or imitrex to prevent it from developing into a real CH.
Biologically I think its when you start to get some neurotransmitter imbalances, maybe a small rise in serotonin but not high enough to trigger the cascade of massive vasodilatation and triggering nerve activation in the trigeminal or sympathetic chain.
Do you usually get visual auras with your normal migraines? Visual auras are very rare with CH or CH shadows. Nausea is also uncommon but sometimes prolonged pain can lead to one feeling sick.
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DennisM1045
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #7 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 4:24pm » |
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Hey BD. Take you blood pressure. When I was taking too much Verapamil on top of my HCT (another BP med) the combination gave me a daily HA that wasn't CH and wasn't a shadow.
If you BP is too low you might be suffering from the same.
Good luck and be careful...
-Dennis-
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Braindead
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #8 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 4:58pm » |
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on Mar 30th, 2008, 4:07pm, Annette wrote:
It took us a while to pinpoint what shadow really means too. I guess the best way to describe a shadow is like those dark stormy looking clouds that hang over your head, making you feel doom and gloom and threatening a possible heavy storm ( CH attack ) which may or may not manifest. Having a shadow is like that but its in your head. Its a lower kip headache with some CH characteristics but not the sharp drilling pain in the eye like in an acute attack. Its annoying like hell and it hurts, although much less. It may or may not build up into a full blown CH. It often hangs around for hours and sometimes all day. It may go all by itself.
People find various things can get rid of a shadow such as some OTC simple pain meds, Red bull or strong coffee. When a shadow builds up worse some would reach for oxygen or imitrex to prevent it from developing into a real CH.
Biologically I think its when you start to get some neurotransmitter imbalances, maybe a small rise in serotonin but not high enough to trigger the cascade of massive vasodilatation and triggering nerve activation in the trigeminal or sympathetic chain.
Do you usually get visual auras with your normal migraines? Visual auras are very rare with CH or CH shadows. Nausea is also uncommon but sometimes prolonged pain can lead to one feeling sick.
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No I do not think I get the aura (maybe not sure what thats like) as I have read about, also light does not seem to bother me.
Just thought migraine cuz the nausea. But you are right sometimes lots of coffee or red bull can kill it, but only 25% of the time for me.
My nureo keeps saying I have to stop the Relpax, due to rebound headache, so he can tell if the Varapamil is working.
Yea right I have been weening myself with a 1/4 pill and the last few days none. Thats hard when your hurtin and on the kitchen counter is my cure.... Either way I may be getting better and thank god cuz we all now as we get older they get harder to deal with. At least me. This round has been very emotcional (sp) on me.
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Braindead
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #9 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 4:59pm » |
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on Mar 30th, 2008, 4:24pm, DennisM1045 wrote:Hey BD. Take you blood pressure. When I was taking too much Verapamil on top of my HCT (another BP med) the combination gave me a daily HA that wasn't CH and wasn't a shadow.
If you BP is too low you might be suffering from the same.
Good luck and be careful...
-Dennis-
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Interesting- thanks Dennis I'll do that.
Denis
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Braindead
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #10 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 5:00pm » |
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on Mar 30th, 2008, 4:00pm, chewy wrote:| After 2 weeks of being CH pain free and symptom free I begin tapering off the verapamil. |
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Thanks Chewy good info.
Denis
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Annette
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #11 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 5:16pm » |
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on Mar 30th, 2008, 4:58pm, Braindead wrote:
No I do not think I get the aura (maybe not sure what thats like) as I have read about, also light does not seem to bother me.
......
Yea right I have been weening myself with a 1/4 pill and the last few days none. Thats hard when your hurtin and on the kitchen counter is my cure.... Either way I may be getting better and thank god cuz we all now as we get older they get harder to deal with. At least me. This round has been very emotcional (sp) on me.
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Visual auras with migraines are those flashing or zigzagging lines one get in the vision field, usually before the headache starts. Migraines usually hurts worse with bright light too.
A CH cycle can play havoc with ones emotion. The pain, the up and down serotonin, the lack of sleep, the fear of the hits, the side effects of the meds ... all can make a person feels bad.
Whenever you need to vent or are having problem coping, come here and post or chat to one of us. It helps a lot to talk to someone who understands what you are going through. Dont fight it by yourself. Thats what we are here for, support as well as information.
You are welcome to PM or email me anytime. 
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Braindead
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #12 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 5:22pm » |
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on Mar 30th, 2008, 5:16pm, Annette wrote:
Visual auras with migraines are those flashing or zigzagging lines one get in the vision field, usually before the headache starts. Migraines usually hurts worse with bright light too.
A CH cycle can play havoc with ones emotion. The pain, the up and down serotonin, the lack of sleep, the fear of the hits, the side effects of the meds ... all can make a person feels bad.
Whenever you need to vent or are having problem coping, come here and post or chat to one of us. It helps a lot to talk to someone who understands what you are going through. Dont fight it by yourself. Thats what we are here for, support as well as information.
You are welcome to PM or email me anytime.
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I have talked to some INCREDIBLE people here. You and many others have helped me during some dangerous times. Thank God for folks like you.
Denis
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MJ
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #13 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 6:45pm » |
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on Mar 30th, 2008, 4:24pm, DennisM1045 wrote:Hey BD. Take you blood pressure. When I was taking too much Verapamil on top of my HCT (another BP med) the combination gave me a daily HA that wasn't CH and wasn't a shadow.
If you BP is too low you might be suffering from the same.
-Dennis-
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My thoughts as well.
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MJ
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #14 on: Mar 30th, 2008, 6:50pm » |
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"Could it be a bad CH shadow ? "
Annette I dont know if everyone is the same with shadows but for me they are generally located in the same areas or side of the head as CH.
Of course we are all a bit different.
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MJ
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Braindead
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #15 on: Mar 31st, 2008, 11:39am » |
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It's a bit early to throw a party but, I am on my 5th day with no CH. Other than the morning killer headache. Although for TWO WHOLE mornings I have only had a tiny one that seems to go away within an hour or so.
I pray they are leaving...............
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Annette
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #16 on: Mar 31st, 2008, 12:00pm » |
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DennisM1045
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #17 on: Mar 31st, 2008, 1:47pm » |
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on Mar 31st, 2008, 11:39am, Braindead wrote:It's a bit early to throw a party but, I am on my 5th day with no CH. Other than the morning killer headache. Although for TWO WHOLE mornings I have only had a tiny one that seems to go away within an hour or so.
I pray they are leaving............... |
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It could be that you are still adjusting to the new dosage and you are now leveling out. Like I said before, get your BP taken.
Since starting to use Verapamil I have an annual EKG to check my heart rythm and I use a home BP monitor that I use every morning.
It pays to be cautious...
I hope your PF streak continues forever...
-Dennis-
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Braindead
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Re: Verapamil Question
« Reply #18 on: Apr 1st, 2008, 11:35am » |
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on Mar 31st, 2008, 1:47pm, DennisM1045 wrote:
It could be that you are still adjusting to the new dosage and you are now leveling out. Like I said before, get your BP taken.
Since starting to use Verapamil I have an annual EKG to check my heart rythm and I use a home BP monitor that I use every morning.
It pays to be cautious...
I hope your PF streak continues forever...
-Dennis-
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I hope so but it's not the worst- but not fun either to have this hangover kinda headache all day. My bp has been 100 / 60 even when I stand up fast. Funny cuz that is what it always has been even before the varapamil. Guess thats a good thing. Stiill better now that I sleep tho. Thanks so much for the info. I will talk to my doc about an annual EKG.
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