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BB
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CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« on: Mar 21st, 2007, 9:54pm » |
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From the other thread " CH and extreme stress " came the question of how does stress affects CH in a person and what chemical/hormonal changes occur during stressful time in a CHer, their relationship to the function/malfunction of the hypothalamus and the roles they play in the pathogenesis of CH.
This article is interesting
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&list_uids=16 539869&cmd=Retrieve&indexed=google
I will look for more and read up more before coming back with further discussion/information.
Anyone else care to comment?
Thanks everyone and painfree wishes to all.
Annette
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burnt-toast
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #1 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 8:38am » |
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Clearly a strong possible relationship exists between CH and hormonal imbalances that appear to link a number of the symptoms of this disorder to Hypothalamus dysfunction.
The following is a snippet of information I have in my notes. Not sure where I got it but it has to be about 10 years old now. References are frequently made to the relationship, yet there seems to be little actual dedicated research.
"Disorders of the pituitary gland or hypothalamus portions of the brain may cause thyroid hormone deficiency in addition to other hormonal imbalances.
The hypothalamus links the nervous system to the endocrine system via the pituitary gland. The hypothalamus is involved in regulating circadian rhythm, body temperature, water balance, blood sugar, and fat metabolism as well as glands such as ovaries and thyroid.
It's known to control appetite, regulate sleep and be involved in almost all aspects of behavior, including thirst, metabolism, preservation of individual, pleasant/unpleasant sensations and movement. It is also thought to be involved in the expression of emotions, such as fear and rage, and in sexual behaviors.
The pituitary gland is often portrayed as a master gland of the body as the anterior and posterior pituitary secrete a battery of hormones that collectively influence all cells and affect virtually every physiologic process. But the hypothalamus plays an even greater role in maintaining electro/chemical balances as secretion of hormones from the anterior pituitary is under strict control of hypothalamic hormones."
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Samiam
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #2 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 9:13am » |
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This is what I have been fighting with my Dr's for years. They don't listen they just script for more drugs. I'm dealing they thyroid, Adrenals and Clusters. I should be a walking book for them to read.
Thyroid meds that don't stay stable.
Adrenals that go out of wack yet come right back into the normal range.
Clusters that come when we play with cortisol by taking Cortef. Yet my morning dose of 5 mgs of Cortef seems to keep the clusters at bay until it wears off.
When using Cortisol at low doses (20mgs a day) is just replacing what some are not producing and that is why many have to learn to stress dose when under stress including being ill anything that causes a stress on the body more then what the adrenals can put out.
So how do we fix the Hypothalamus? Has anyone else been tested for thyroid and I don't just mean a thyroid panel but the Free levels?
Has anyone had a 4x's a day saliva cortisol test to see if that is within range? Not a stim test because all they are looking for is if it doubles but that doesn't mean you are starting out at the correct level.
Is your DHEA and cortisol % in range?
This was all the things that we are trying to get into a good range for me and not the "Lab normals" because we all know that normal isn't normal for everyone.
TSH isn't the only tool that should be use to rule out thyroid. You also have to find out if the hormone that you are taking is getting into the cells and not just free floating.
Seem to me that the Hypothalamus plays a role that overlaps many other glands. One being the thyroid which seems to mimic a lot of the same disorders.
Annette I would be really interested in what you are able to come up since the dr that I deal with just don't seem to what to take the time to research this. Or sadly they just don't know.
Adrenal glands sit on top of the kidneys. They consist of two parts, the outer cortex and the inner medulla. The medulla secretes epinephrine and other similar hormones in response to stressors such as fright, anger, caffeine, or low blood sugar. The cortex secretes corticosteroids such as cortisone. Corticosteroids are well-known as being anti-inflammatory, thus are prescribed for a number of conditions. But most times that are scripted for way higher doses. What if we were to just replace what our bodies need and no more?
So after a major stressor cortisol is used up and unable to replenish itself in time for the next stressor which when we become less tense and relax it hits us. When I say that I get hit when under stress it means that I get hit after the danger has passed and the body tries to go back to normal. This in my theory would be Adrenal fatigue and not full blown Addisons
Just theory for me
Sami
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| « Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2007, 10:46am by Samiam » |
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starlight
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #3 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 11:12am » |
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Annette,
You know what I am really curious about with cluster headache? Usually pain within the body is a signal that something is wrong. If my leg hurts real bad, I may have a broken leg or other injury. Oftentimes the pain may serve a purpose--if my leg hurts oftentimes the location of the pain will help me know where my leg is broken. The pain will also let me know I should not walk on my leg.
If CH is a hormonal imbalance, the result of a whacky hypothalamus, etc. what really has me curious is what purpose is the pain serving? Let's say my hypothalamus is whacky, still why does it produce that kind of pain and once a night is not enough but sometimes 4,5 times? If it is hormonal problem, still, why the pain? I have never read any article which asks this question.
I went untreated for many years and I would notice after I had a CH headache,
it would feel like I was an some kind of opiate--sometimes there would be insomnia but sometimes I would then sleep deeper than I ever have. Something tells me it is related to disordered sleep--and the opiate-like feeling maybe is trying to reset something and get the sleep back on track again.
Maybe this is related to hormones? Disordered sleep?
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starlight
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #4 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 11:25am » |
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Oh, one more thing I remember, my CH get MUCH worse right before my period and then improve temporarily about 3 days into it. So there is definitely a hormonal connection. My neuro asked me when my last cycle started if I had gotten my period late that month--I didn't know if it was a couple days late so I told him I didn't know. But he said that it probably had been, so I think you are right it does have a hormonal link--maybe the hormonal rhythm gets thrown off temporarily (for episodic).
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ClusterChuck
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #5 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 12:29pm » |
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on Mar 22nd, 2007, 11:25am, starlight wrote:| Oh, one more thing I remember, my CH get MUCH worse right before my period and then improve temporarily about 3 days into it. |
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Gee, I never notcied it getting any worse during my period ... Opppsss!!! I don't HAVE a period ... Never mind .... Ignore this post ...
Chuck
PS: Sorry to enter levity into a serious, and interesting post ... I couldn't resist ... Me BAD!!!
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ClusterChuck
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #7 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 1:09pm » |
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WOW!!! Those are fascinating articles!! I had not seen them before!!
I have heard that some suspect the hypothalamus is involved in sexual preference, but never read those articles.
As far as the percentage of gays that suffer clusters, I don't know that it is any higher, than in straight men, but that is just my gut feeling. I only know of a few of us, that have come out, on this site. Maybe there are more of us, but they just haven't made it public, here.
In the first article, the National Geographic one, why didn't they test any lesbians, in their study?
Thanks for the articles!
Chuck
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starlight
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #8 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 2:02pm » |
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Clusterchuck,
Do you not have hormones and hormonal cycle as a man? Last I heard men do.
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rickyshot
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #9 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 2:43pm » |
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Very interesting. I agree from my experience.
I have hypothyroid and post menopausal from surgical menopuase for 10 years now.
I take synthroid and cytomel to support T3.
I find I have ahell of a time maintaining weight. I never knew the hypothalmus plays a part in that one. I was a barbie doll all my life till 38 when hypothyroid kicked in.
I take DHEA supplements and they help immensley. I also take b vitamins, magnesium, calcium, kelp and selenium all to support the headaches, thyroid and menopause combo.
I go to the gym four times a week for weight bearing exercises and cardio.
If I did not do the above I would weight twice as much I am sure as well as look and feel old. As it is I am 52 and everyone gives me 35 and I have better energy than a 20 year old when not in cycle.
One day I hope they will really crack the hypothalmus code.
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BB
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #10 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 7:17pm » |
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The hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA axis)
refers to a complex set of direct influences and feedback interactions between: the hypothalamus, a hollow, funnel-shaped part of the brain; the pituitary gland, a pea-shaped structure located below the hypothalamus; and the adrenal or suprarenal gland, a small, paired, pyramidal organ located at the top of each kidney. The fine, homeostatic interactions between these three organs constitute the HPA axis, a major part of the neuroendocrine system that controls reactions to stress and regulates various body processes including digestion, the immune system, mood and sexuality, and energy usage. Species from humans to the most ancient organisms share components of the HPA axis. It is the mechanism for a set of interactions among glands, hormones and parts of the mid-brain that mediate a general adaptation syndrome.
Anatomy
The key elements of the HPA axis are:
The paraventricular nucleus of the hypothalamus, which contains neuroendocrine neurons that synthesise and secrete vasopressin and corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH). These two peptides regulate:
The anterior lobe of the pituitary gland. In particular, CRH and vasopressin stimulate the secretion of adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), once known as corticotropin. ACTH in turn acts on:
the adrenal cortices, which produce glucocorticoid hormones (mainly cortisol in humans) in response to stimulation by ACTH. Glucocorticoids in turn act back on the hypothalamus and pituitary (to suppress CRH and ACTH production) in a negative feedback cycle.
CRH and vasopressin are released from neurosecretory nerve terminals at the median eminence. They are transported to the anterior pituitary through the portal blood vessel system of the hypophyseal stalk. There, CRH and vasopressin act synergistically to stimulate the secretion of stored ACTH from corticotrope cells. ACTH is transported by the blood to the adrenal cortex of the adrenal gland, where it rapidly stimulates biosynthesis of corticosteroids such as cortisol from cholesterol. Cortisol is a major stress hormone and has effects on many tissues in the body, including on the brain. In the brain, cortisol acts at two types of receptor - mineralocorticoid receptors and glucocorticoid receptors, and these are expressed by many different types of neuron. One important target of glucocorticoids is the hippocampus, which is a major controlling centre of the HPA axis.
Vasopressin can be thought of as "water conservation hormone" and is also known as "antidiuretic hormone". It is released when the body is dehydrated and has potent water-conserving effects on the kidney.
Function
Release of CRH from the hypothalamus is influenced by stress, by blood levels of cortisol and by the sleep/wake cycle. In healthy individuals, cortisol rises rapidly after wakening, reaching a peak within 30-45 minutes. It then gradually falls over the day, rising again in late afternoon. Cortisol levels then fall in late evening, reaching a trough during the middle of the night. An abnormally flattened circadian cortisol cycle has been linked with chronic fatigue syndrome (MacHale, 199 , insomnia (Backhaus, 2004) and burnout (Pruessner, 1999).
Anatomical connections between brain areas such as the amygdala, hippocampus, and hypothalamus facilitate activation of the HPA axis. Sensory information arriving at the lateral aspect of the amygdala is processed and conveyed to the central nucleus, which projects to several parts of the brain involved in responses to fear. At the hypothalamus, fear-signaling impulses activate both the sympathetic nervous system and the modulating systems of the HPA axis.
Increased production of cortisol mediates alarm reactions to stress, facilitating an adaptive phase of a general adaptation syndrome in which alarm reactions including the immune response are suppressed, allowing the body to attempt countermeasures.
Glucocorticoids have many important functions, including modulation of stress reactions, but in excess they can be damaging. Atrophy of the hippocampus in humans and animals exposed to severe stress is believed to be caused by prolonged exposure to high concentrations of glucocorticoids. Deficiencies of the hippocampus may reduce the memory resources available to help a body formulate appropriate reactions to stress.
The HPA axis is involved in the neurobiology of mood disorders and functional illnesses, including anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, clinical depression, burnout, chronic fatigue syndrome and irritable bowel syndrome.
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thebbz
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #11 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 9:10pm » |
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current research,they appear to be, now is thought to be, has been a topic of much debate and speculation,and future research may.
That is my context to that article,good reading though and this may provoke more speculation and debate 
This aint a gay site is it?  Wait till Jonny finds out.
jb
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BikerBob
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #12 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 10:17pm » |
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on Mar 22nd, 2007, 1:09pm, ClusterChuck wrote:
As far as the percentage of gays that suffer clusters, I don't know that it is any higher, than in straight men, but that is just my gut feeling. I only know of a few of us, that have come out, on this site. Maybe there are more of us, but they just haven't made it public, here.
Chuck |
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on Mar 22nd, 2007, 9:10pm, thebbz wrote:
This aint a gay site is it? Wait till Jonny finds out.
jb |
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I wouldn't be surprised if Jonny the homophobe is one of the most gay people on this message board, although he's deathly afraid to come out of the closet.
I'm not gay but I have tolerance and respect for those who are.
I've got about as much testosterone as these guys...
http://www.friscohellsangels.com
BB
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thebbz
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #13 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 10:56pm » |
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Wasn't gay bashin there Bob  Bad attempt at humor 
http://www.hells-angels-oakland.com/
and from the east side
jb
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BB
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #14 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 11:29pm » |
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These guys have testosterone ?
I thought those who dont have much need big bikes as replacement ?  
Annette
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ClusterChuck
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #15 on: Mar 23rd, 2007, 12:54am » |
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on Mar 22nd, 2007, 10:17pm, BikerBob wrote:| I wouldn't be surprised if Jonny the homophobe is one of the most gay people on this message board, although he's deathly afraid to come out of the closet. |
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Jonny is NOT homophobic!!! He teases me, but he teases everyone. In person, he is totally at ease with me and great to be around. Jonny could care less what your sexual orientation is. He cares about whether you are a good person or not.
I have know Jonny for several years, and been around him, in person, several times. He is a wonderful person and no homophobe!
I also feel honored to call him a friend.
Chuck
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #16 on: Mar 23rd, 2007, 2:45pm » |
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Look there I'm the homophobe on the right
We got almost 1000.00 for aids that day.
jb
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Samiam
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #17 on: Mar 23rd, 2007, 8:22pm » |
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And I THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART since my Dad passed away in 95 from AIDS. To all that help.
Sami
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burnt-toast
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Re: CH as a hormonal dysfunction?
« Reply #18 on: Mar 31st, 2007, 2:47pm » |
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Here’s a snippet on how Alcohol affects the Hypothalamus, the Pituitary Gland and hormone levels. Interesting that alcholol is also such a common trigger and some claim sex can be an abortive.
The Hypothalamus is an area of the brain that controls and influences many automatic functions of the brain through actions on the medulla, and coordinates many chemical or endocrine functions (secretions of sex, thyroid and growth hormones) through chemical and nerve impulse actions on the Pituitary Gland.
Alcohol has two noticeable effects on the hypothalamus and pituitary gland,
Alcohol depresses the nerve centers in the hypothalamus that control sexual arousal and performance.
Alcohol acts on the hypothalamus/pituitary to reduce the circulating levels of anti-diuretic hormone (ADH), When ADH levels drop, the kidneys do not reabsorb as much water and the kidneys produce more urine.
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