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starlight
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Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« on: Jan 4th, 2007, 9:52am » |
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Hi everyone. Haven't been here for a while but been having some trouble and figured you guys are the best to ask about what is going on. I will try to make this as brief as possible. My HAs stopped in October, at that time I started weaning down off of the kind of high dose of melatonin I was on. For past 1 1/2 mos. I was still on 6 mg of melatonin and doing fine. About a week before Christmas I went down to 0 mg--stopped taking any--and that is where the shit hit the fan. Within about 3 days I was no longer sleeping AT ALL (tried taking Nyquil that did not help), could not eat hardly anything (food seemed totally repulsive) and I lost like 10 lbs in a week (although that may be a good thing) and last but not least spiralled into a huge depression where I did not get out of bed for 5 days (I have never been so depressed like that). I guess it was stupid of me but I did not even realize that this was happening because I stopped taking melatonin (I think)--I had ran out of it, figured if I had weaned down from a high dose to 6 mg and was fine how could not taking 6 mg cause such a drastic change for the worse. And then I started shadowing and went to get more melatonin.
These symptoms--not sleeping or eating and depression were the same (only quite a bit worse this time) that I experienced before the last episode of cluster HAs. My doc told me that these symptoms are a result of my hypothalamus crapping out on me b/c the hypothalamus controls all of these things--sleeping, eating, etc. So I started taking the 6 mg of melatonin--depression improved although not totally gone, got out of bed, ate like a horse, and slept well for a couple of nights. Still shadowing. And also not sleeping so good anymore but NOT like before when I couldn't sleep at all.
Basically, I am not trying to complain, but do you guys think that what happened with not sleeping at all or eating and severe depression--is that cluster-related? Or was/is there something else wrong with me? Has this happened to anyone else when the beast is acting up again. Because it never used to happen to me but now I guess is a "part" of the picture, but it sucks bad. Is my hypothalamus just getting extra "broken" or is there something else wrong with me? Sorry if this sounds stupid or whiny I just wondered you guys' opinion. Thanks, and hope all of you are doing well. Star
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burnt-toast
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #1 on: Jan 4th, 2007, 10:30am » |
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Starlight,
It seems that you may have reached a point where treating your depression as a specific issue is important.
Your Hypothalamus breaking down is not likely the root cause. The drugs, sleep deprivation, recurring pain, etc. of CH causes depression in suffers and the stress of daily life doesn't make it any easier for CH sufferers. Everyone deals with this differently and often professional assistance is needed. Please do not be afraid or embarrassed to seek assistance from a professional.
Please keep us up to date with how things are going.
Best Wishes,
Tom
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Bob_Johnson
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #2 on: Jan 4th, 2007, 11:09am » |
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Star, what any of us may think about the cause/source of the depression would be a poor guess, in any case.
If you feel that the depression is not lifting day by day right now, I'd suggest you work with your doc and get on any of the standard antidepressants. There is little to gain by toughing it out and there is a tendency to recur if not adequately treated.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 5th, 2007, 11:42am by Bob_Johnson » |
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Kevin_M
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #3 on: Jan 4th, 2007, 1:38pm » |
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on Jan 4th, 2007, 11:09am, Bob_Johnson wrote:| Star, what any of us may think about the cause/source of the depression would be a poor guess, in any case. |
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Certainly true. Here we have beginnings related as during the Christmas season, stopping melatonin, or cluster-related in the posted picture. Perhaps questions and answers beyond the scope of what could be any ascertainable reason is none of the above. Though there can be "me too" responses, different circumstances are possibilities for each individual and not an answer reliable enough, even among who you would consider being trusted friends.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2007, 3:16pm by Kevin_M » |
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floridian
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #4 on: Jan 4th, 2007, 8:15pm » |
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While medical imaging studies usually do not associate depression directly with the hypothalamus, it is possible that a disruption of the hypothalamaus (and changes in sleep, appetite, and other hypothalamus controlled processes) could trigger depression.
Regardless, if you felt you couldn't get out of bed for 5 days because of mood, that's a pretty clear sign you need to seek treatment.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2007, 8:16pm by floridian » |
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starlight
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #5 on: Jan 5th, 2007, 9:38am » |
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You guys, thanks for your replies and support.
Yeah, the whole thing got pretty bad. Like I said, it never used to be part of the cluster picture--my doc called it (last time when it was not quite as bad--the not sleeping, eating, depression) a prodromal period. Only I have had these HAs (episodic) for 20 yrs. and I have only got this type of "prodromal period" once before, so I was just wondering what the heck you guys could make of it. Frankly, call it cynicism, I don't often confide in doctors when I can avoid it.
My opinion is I think it is probably some kind of mood disorder that is now triggering the HAs, not likely totally the hypothalamus itself totally responsible for the not sleeping, eating, etc. I was having an extra heaping helping of family stress on my plate right before Christmas and I guess somehow it pushed me into depression.
On a good note, I got my first good night of sleep in about 2 weeks last night
(6hrs.)--woke up at 6 instead of 2:30!!! Appetite still sucks. But I have forced myself to walk 5 miles each day for the last 2 days and it has greatly helped diminish the shadowing. I am still getting it but just sporadically throughout day (twingey shadowy stuff) rather than when I lie down and when I wake up at 2:30 am lasting throughout the night and then in the morning. So, if anyone is reading this, walk briskly for an hour--it may help--but you need to walk for the full hour I think for it to be effective.
I feel like I am starting to feel a little better. The walking along with the 6 mg melatonin seem to be pushing the beast back (thank God). And the depression is improving. I guess Christmas really can drive a person crazy!!!
Thank you guys for caring, and I am going to check in here cause I need the support. Hope you guys are well. Star
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MJ
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #6 on: Jan 6th, 2007, 2:48am » |
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Starlight
Proper help and care is allways neccessary and if that requires meds so be it. Sounds like you are being proactive in your recognition of depression. Its important to stay on top of it and I wish you a quick return to living at your best.
The following is just to serve as a possible question / warning to all of us.
I have not personally used melatonin but Being that melotonin is a naturally occuring substance in all of us, wich many subsidize during CH cycles due to possibly low natural production.
I am not sure its known exactly the purpose of naturally occurring melatonin, nor the effects of long term subsidies.
You could be right on. Perhaps after long periods of use the bodies methods may have decided there is no need to produce more as artificial means were enough and maybe all users need to taper even longer to allow natural production to kick back in.
Any further thoughts on this or am I off track here.
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floridian
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #7 on: Jan 6th, 2007, 6:02pm » |
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My understanding is that melatonin production is switched off by light (and sometimes a limited supply of serotonin). It appears it is different than other things like steroids - melatonin from an external source doesn't turn off the body's own production. Melatonin production is controlled from the SCN region of the hypothalamus.
No doubt that dropping from 6 mg a day supplementation to zero might have an effect in some people, especially if they already have low melatonin production on their own.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 6th, 2007, 6:04pm by floridian » |
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starlight
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #8 on: Jan 8th, 2007, 9:38am » |
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Hi guys.
Feeling a little better. Wanted to add my two sense on the melatonin discussion.
I am back on 6 mg melatonin, and, personally, I don't think that I will ever attempt to taper off of this amount. The reason being, my last episode of cluster HAs this past summer was the worst one ever--the melatonin helped--helped. The prodromal period I experienced was out of the ordinary, as if something was going extra whacky with the hypothalamus. So, I think my body was, previous to any melatonin intake, cutting my melatonin supply down more than it ever had at any point, including cluster HA cycles. Could be hormonal (I am 32 year old woman). But I don't think the melatonin caused anything to go awry, I think it was my wonderful brain/hypothalamus going whacky all on its own.
You guys, thanks for your information and your thoughts. It is really good to know you all are out there and understand this incredibly irritating headache disorder. Star
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birdman
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #9 on: Jan 8th, 2007, 12:38pm » |
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Star, I have had anxiety/depression issues for many years, partly due to CH's. I am currently not on any meds for that but have had similar concerns with melatonin. My anxiety always shows up in an inability to fall asleep. When my latest Ch's showed up I used melatonin as a new treatment. Concerned that it is currently masking my anxiety as all signs indicate that without it, I would be up all night. Anyway, I think your concerns over depression are legitimate and you should not be afraid to discuss this with a md. I took paxil for years and had great results. Can't hurt to talk to someone. Good luck!
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BarbaraD
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #10 on: Jan 9th, 2007, 6:22am » |
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According to my neuro, holidays are the best time for depression to hit anyone. Christmas is when I've had my worst bouts with it (to the point of being suicidal a few times).
As to the melatonin -- I swear by it (and I'm chronic). I take 9-12 mg a night and sometimes more when I'm in a high cycle. Feel a lot better and just don't have any expectation of stopping it. I've weened off of about everything else except trazadone and am trying to get off it. But the melatonin stays...
Glad you're feeling better. If you can sleep at night, you can handle the day time. At least that's my theory (and I have a lot of them).
Hugs BD
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birdman
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #11 on: Jan 9th, 2007, 8:38am » |
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BD- I have always had the same theory, as long as I can sleep, I can deal with anything. But I am not totally convinced this time around. Days have been a bit crazy latelty. As you know, the holidays can sometimes be the best or worst times. I hope you do not hesitate to get further help if needed. Especially since you mentioned being suicidal in the past.
I will admit to you that I am currently waiting for my Pysch to return from vacation to set up an appointment(why he always takes his trips in January is something I don't understand). As mentioned, have had success with Paxil in the past and predict a return to it. PLEASE don't hesitate to make that call. It has saved my life and marriage in the past.
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starlight
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #12 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 9:07am » |
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Birdman--That is totally true--that is how anxiety shows up for me also, and I know what you mean by thinking that the melatonin is masking the anxiety--in some ways I think that that is/was my problem--anxiety moreso than depression or anxiety causing depression or something like that. Also thank you for recommending Paxil--I am starting to become much more open to the idea of taking an anti-depressant of some kind.
Barbara--I have heard that Christmas is the high time of the year for depression but never had a first hand taste of it. Now I understand exactly about the Christmas depression thing--I am sorry that you have experienced this before yourself because I now know it is awful. I hope that it did not hit you this year. Next year I hope that I can fly to a faraway island and just avoid Christmas altogether.
Anyway, doing better day by day. Getting some shadowing if I lay down "before my bedtime" at night but can't complain one bit in that department as the beast seems to have backed off mostly.
Hope everyone here is doing well. Starlight
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kcopelin
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #13 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 9:41am » |
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Starlight,
I take melatonin at night 9-12 mg. I get better sleep with it, but its not perfect...I wake up when I would be getting hit with stuffy nostril, weepy eye, and cluster knot on my neck-but no pain.
In the past couple of months I noticed that I was not hungry and only ate dinner (hubby got upset when I didn't eat), was exhausted by 2 pm and somedays never got out of my jammies (totally unlike me)
I took a test on depression and scored 25 out of 27. The thing is, I don't feel sad, or "depressed" but this is definitely clinical depression and I'm on an anti-depressant now.
My point, dicey hypothalumus=decreased serotonin levels+chronic pain=depression.
Here's to a cure!
PFDAN y'all
kathy
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starlight
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Re: Not sleeping or eating/Depression
« Reply #14 on: Jan 12th, 2007, 9:32am » |
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Kcopelin,
I get that real tired by early afternoon feeling especially in the real dark months of winter. I wonder if cluster headache people often have seasonal affective disorder too.
I feel I probably do--feel much better mood wise in the spring/summer. Lately I'm a big believer in walking outside to get some sunlight/exercise to battle it but in January not much seems to help too much. I too will continue taking the melatonin--it really seems to help me to get that deeper sleep that it provides.
Hope you're feeling better with the anti-depressant--I think they can be a great idea, and definitely, here's to a cure!!! Star
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