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dolfan13
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Relaxation techniqes
« on: Sep 10th, 2006, 1:27pm » |
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Hot showers,water drinking therefore lots of peeing,cold showers,whatever works to abort,are all these just really ways to get yourself to relax? I ve tried lots of this stuff some or any of it works if it gets me to relax.Iam going to try yoga next. Has anyone had success on here with it?My whole right side feels like I pulled every muscle especally the right side of my neck,it pops every time I lean my head to the left.Are these symptoms of my CHs or is my neck etc. triggering them? Thanks I have done some reading and searching on here but dont have a lot of time with kids and wife who says just take your pills.
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Bob_Johnson
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #1 on: Sep 10th, 2006, 2:42pm » |
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There is no/scant evidence that CH is caused by tension. I've never seen evidence that tension triggers an attack--although some would disagree.
I've had success using relaxation of muscles and controlling breathing during attacks. I sit in a high back chair and find as neutral a posture as possible (allowing muscles to relax which would normally be tensed to maintain position). I slow breathing rate as much as possible; darken the room as much as possible; shift my focus, to the degree possible, away from the pain. Helps but no cure. For some of us, the agitated walking which affects many, only increased the pounding pain.
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Dave_S
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #2 on: Sep 10th, 2006, 3:03pm » |
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The fear that goes along with an attack is huge with me before I figured that out I suffered pulled neck muscles as well as every other muscle in my body. A CH could trigger a three day stress migraine. I tried yoga meditation with little success. I tried huge doses of Zanax no help then a sweet neurologist recommended I try I doubt I will spell this right but phenergrin fen-er-grin 250 MG boy that is the only reason I am still sane for me it works great for the anxiety I have with an attack I think it is used as a anti-nausea medicine don’t know why it works just that it does I take it every night before bed.
Dave S
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George_J
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #3 on: Sep 10th, 2006, 11:32pm » |
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on Sep 10th, 2006, 2:42pm, Bob_Johnson wrote:There is no/scant evidence that CH is caused by tension. I've never seen evidence that tension triggers an attack--although some would disagree.
I've had success using relaxation of muscles and controlling breathing during attacks. I sit in a high back chair and find as neutral a posture as possible (allowing muscles to relax which would normally be tensed to maintain position). I slow breathing rate as much as possible; darken the room as much as possible; shift my focus, to the degree possible, away from the pain. Helps but no cure. For some of us, the agitated walking which affects many, only increased the pounding pain. |
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Bob, I think that it's uncanny that you posted this--it's very similar to what I do during an attack.
Bob's right--you really can control your reactions to an attack to some extent. I think it is possible only because we are human beings, and not helpless animals in a trap.
I'll repost this, since it seems an appropriate place to do so. I hope no one minds:
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No matter what medications or alternative treatments you use, sooner or later you're going to face a hit with nothing but your naked brain. It's common for a CH'r to panic at times like these, and to act in ways that--while not increasing pain, increase the effects and the perception of pain.
Like anything else in life, experience counts. Most of us who've had these for a long time have had to learn how to cope with a hit on our own. I'm hopeful that what follows may be of use to someone new to cluster headache, and may quicken your ability to take a hit with some measure of aplomb. Try these things--if they work for you, good. If they don't work--well, what have you lost?
First a couple of caveats: This will most likely not shorten a hit, nor will it decrease the actual pain--only the perceived pain. It probably won't work with anything higher than a Kip 8--the intensity is just too high to concentrate on what you're doing.
There is nothing mystical or spiritual about this--it's simply a way to calm yourself and to decrease your perception of pain.
First, accept that you're getting a hit. Denial won't help, and struggling won't help. Go to a quiet, dark place so you can concentrate. You want everything in your visual field to be fuzzy and diffuse. Sharply defined objects, especially red or green LED lights can serve as a metaphor for the focus of pain. Although many CH'rs are not light-phobic, darkness helps.
Sit upright. As you know, it's not possible to lie down. Don't pace. Extremely difficult to do, I know, but it's worth it. Sit quietly.
Begin to breathe slowly, rhythmically, and deeply, whether or not you're using oxygen. This will serve to calm you, and will increase the oxygen content in your blood.
Consciously relax the individual muscles in your face, scalp and neck, one by one. Continue to breathe slowly and deeply.
Inside the pain, there is a focal point--a knifepoint--most likely behind your eye. Focus your attention on it, and locate it.
Got it? Now gradually shift the focus of your attention to an adjacent area on the headache side where the pain is less intense. My personal favorite is just under the skin on the forehead. Your attention will shift back to the knifepoint again and again, but don't let that upset you or discourage you. Focus your conscious attention away from the knifepoint.
Next and last, begin to move in some rhythmic manner. I turn my neck slightly to "click" over the knot that forms at the base of the neck, over and over. Others rock back and forth. One person I know of on this board hits his leg with his fist.
Be calm. Don't think about much of anything, and above all, don't worry.
The result is a trance-like state where the pain still exists, but your attention is less focused on it. Sooner or later, the hit will end. You know this. Remember. There is life between the hits.
Again, this won't end a hit, nor is it a cure--simply a coping technique. I think of CH hits as if they were storms. There's nothing I can do about them, so I've learned to get through them as best I can. Coping by distraction allows me to build a crude little shelter out of burlap and sticks where "I" can hide from the worst of the weather.
I think highly of Charlie's "Dr. Wright's Circulatory Technique" as well. It can work by itself, or in conjunction with coping by distraction.
Let me know if this works for you.
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Please remember that this can very difficult to do, and I don't think it can be learned overnight. It took me ten years to get some sort of a handle on my reactions to a hit.
Best wishes,
George
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Ah! The foreigners put on such airs
Wearing the tangerine suits
And their harlequin eyes.
The pain they inspire
Draws in harmonica melodies
And the feathers of birds
Which flame up at their touch.
It all comes to light in the sheer
Debonair.
(Ellen)
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BB
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #4 on: Sep 11th, 2006, 12:41am » |
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on Sep 10th, 2006, 3:03pm, Dave_S wrote:The fear that goes along with an attack is huge with me before I figured that out I suffered pulled neck muscles as well as every other muscle in my body. A CH could trigger a three day stress migraine. I tried yoga meditation with little success. I tried huge doses of Zanax no help then a sweet neurologist recommended I try I doubt I will spell this right but phenergrin fen-er-grin 250 MG boy that is the only reason I am still sane for me it works great for the anxiety I have with an attack I think it is used as a anti-nausea medicine don’t know why it works just that it does I take it every night before bed.
Dave S
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Hi Dave,
Phenergan is an antihistamine. Just before and during CH attacks the hypothalamus produces abnormal amount of serotonin and histamine. They cause blood vessels to dilate and reduce your pain threshold as well as making the body heating up. Phenergan also has anti nausea and mild sedating effect.
Thats how and why it works in some people to reduce the intensity of the attack and helps to sleep better at night.
Painfree wshes to you. Take care.
Annette
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Dave_S
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #5 on: Sep 11th, 2006, 1:40am » |
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Thanks I did not know that I heard it was slightly different or derived, related to both an anti physicotic (spelling) being a sedative I just know 250MG works better than 20 MG of liquid zanax for the anxiety which is an understatement I experience during an attack.
To any one who has given up on the doctors like I did check my tag line from back then a loaded 45 in my hand banging my head against the wall counting to 30 then if I could not take it any more I would end it when I hit 30 I would go I can count to 30 1 more time repeat endlessly
Botox methadone and 02 have actually given me some life back I smile now and can enjoy things despite the fact the beast never leaves for long. And if you have tried every drug anti depressant with no success and your doctor says opiates are not for clusters first explain to them that they don’t work for the current attack but in 2 hours there will be a new one and they damn sure work for that.
The first neurologist I saw after seeking treatment the latest time laughed when I asked for codeine 3 no answer just laughed if I had not been beating down by two years of chronic CH two years of 2 hours on 2 hours off I would have killed her on the spot I may yet make another appointment with her to discuss in a very non threatening manor her bedside manor some how people often feel threatened by me I need to work on that but I am like a rat. I learned long ago violence got you treated first in the ER
Telling the ER doctor what drugs he was going to administer and what dose in a very cool calm psychotic manor works and when you here the page MR strong to the ER you find your DOC ASAP and tell him what IS going to happen well in ten years I only had a problem once MR strong lost and I am not aloud to set foot on there property. I get along with the ER a lot better than most of the other poor saps waiting 5 hours shoot I fill out the card and am in the ER right then want is 02 and Phenergin and they don’t want to wait for new vending machines to be delivered to have a coke at break we have worked out a mutual understanding as it were not that I recommend it to all nor does it give me any pleasure to do it I just learned long ago it is very effective.
HMO doctors do not give vicodin it is a cardinal rule in CA loop hole DOC I just want two if this keeps on all night I don’t want to be back here. Shoot DOC never wrote a script for two of any thing in comes a script for thirty.
Your local hospital don’t treat headaches with opiates but nothing else works it takes some self control but it’s a tooth blown up hopping around is ok just hold your mouth and hop cry like you already was the DOC understands that pain and will hook you right up ER around here use contract doctors so most of them are different all the time so you can get away with that for a while.
Boy shoot I get off topic its just I am finally alive after such a long period of nothing but pain and misery it feels great to be alive to think I used to count the seconds until I put the gun in my mouth and pulled the trigger.
This pain now isn’t nothing but I so fear the return of the real beast I just don’t know on one hand I want to dance and sing to the world on the other hand I can’t go through that again so I guess my motto will remain With suicide, there is hope without hope there is only suicide
Dave S
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With suicide, there is hope without hope there is only suicide
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BB
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #6 on: Sep 11th, 2006, 2:39am » |
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Hi again Dave,
I am so sorry to hear that you have suffered so much.
I strongly believe you should try to seek out a good neurologist who knows about CH to treat you properly. A lot of doctors including ER staff know naught about cluster and since its rare and they dont come across it often they dont bother to learn more about it.
I am sure there are some medications and or combination of medications that will work better for you so that you dont have to hold that gun to your head.
I am a GP and the Australian Medical Board threatened to revoke my prescribing authority recently after I wrote 2 scripts for morphine for my DH who has CH, in the early days of his cycle where the preventive meds had not kicked in. Their reasoning is that narcotics is not recommended for CH on the protocol. 
I know that narcotics are not the long term treatments for CH but in desperate cases where everything else fails it does help you to float above the pain to take the suicide edge off, but one has to be extremely careful with it due to high risk of addiction.
Is there a specialised headache centre nearby that you can go to see for more practical help?
Best wishes to you and many painfree days and nights to come.
Take care, dont give up.
Annette
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kcopelin
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #7 on: Sep 11th, 2006, 7:36am » |
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Dolfan,
Relaxation, for me, is bad...very bad. Tried yoga once-after about three minutes into the neck stuff ended up with a Kip 7. Yoga is a no-go for me. I also feel a neck cruch in the beginning stages, and end up with a huge "mass" for lack of a better term at the base of my skull on the cluster side. It goes away with the hit.
My motto...or one of them...never relax, never sit for more than 25 minutes, NEVER NAP.
PFDAN y'all
kathy
P.S. Dave S. if you really think about it, suicide is stupid. You are here for a reason, other than suffering, and are part of something much bigger than your pain. Your mission is to discover what that might be. Now, step away from that gun, and those thoughts, and get some decent medical help. (Said with much compassion by someone who has counted all her pills at one time and figured how many/how fast to end it all.) I am still here-and for the most part my family and friends are happy about that. Be well-and don't let who you are be swallowed up by your headaches.
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Katherinecm
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #8 on: Sep 11th, 2006, 1:10pm » |
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I agree with finding a neuro.
It might help to tell the doctors about the extent of your suicidal thoughts. After trying lithium I got much worse and extremely depressed, and my thoughts during a hit changed from "I don't want to live like this- ok, it will probably only last 45 minutes, if it's longer I'll go to the hospital" to planning what kind of suicide would be most likely to be effective without leaving me paralyzed but still in the hospital feeling these headaches.
The only type of preventative I hadn't tried was an antideppressant- I got Wellbutrin XL, and she gave me stronger and more painkillers without my asking after I explained the extent of the way I was depressed. The wellbutrin helped me get back in control of my thoughts within 2 days. The hits are as strong as ever but I can deal with them much better. I did have a lot of trouble sleeping for about a week, but the relief from those horrible thoughts was worth it.
Please, don't be afraid to ask for help.
Katy
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"It is not death or pain that is to be dreaded, but the fear of pain or death." Epictetus
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Chonas
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #9 on: Sep 11th, 2006, 1:25pm » |
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on Sep 11th, 2006, 7:36am, kcopelin wrote:My motto...or one of them...never relax, never sit for more than 25 minutes, NEVER NAP.
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Absolutely.
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Sandy_C
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #10 on: Sep 11th, 2006, 1:47pm » |
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dolfan, I'm with Bob and George. Before I was diagnosed, and was able to get some medications that helped me, my first thoughts upon getting a hit, were - remain calm. Do not panic. At home, I would leave the family room, with the TV, noise, etc, and go to another darkened room (now please, I do not want anyone to even mention the word migrane, thank you). I would sit upright in a chair, use both hand and 10 fingers applying pressure to the painful nerves, and try to focus on anything but the pain on the right side of my head. Eventually, I would rock back and forth, holding ice packs, frozen peas, whatever was cold, and could ride out the hit. Until it reached a 7 or 8. Then, as George said, there isn't any relaxation possible.
I could ride out many of my hits this way. No, it wasn't pleasant by a long shot, but I managed.
If you have meds to prevent the hits, use them. If you have meds to abort the hits, use them. But, if you have neither, or are caught without them, you have got to learn to ride it out. - remain calm - do not panic. Yes, you will hurt - badly, but you will not die from it, neither will you become insane from it. Because, the hit will pass, and so will the pain.
I don't think there is anyone here who has experienced a K9 or K10, and has not prayed for death. Yet we know, that this pain will end. We take one hit at a time and live life between.
Hang tough, stay strong.
Sandy
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Karla
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #11 on: Sep 11th, 2006, 8:12pm » |
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I was very tight and tense around my neck and shoulder area. My neuro thought that was causing my ha. lol He sent me off to physcial therapy and I was able to prove the tightness was a result of ch not a cause. Then I was regually sent to pt for a message.
Then he came up with the bright idea to send me to a pyciatrist. Well he recomended biofeedback. He was so amazed. He said he had never seen anyone in such extreame pain stay so relax and said he had notihng to offer me and that biofeedback wouldn't help me.
I tend to try to do what the dr wants as long as I can have some sort of definete outcome from it. Good luck I pray you find some help soon.
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Karla
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kindness2others
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #12 on: Sep 11th, 2006, 8:34pm » |
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I think yoga has been more effective for me in prevention of CH cycles, rather than aborting a CH onset. I was CH free for a few years, but when the beast came back (as it always does), all the yoga and breathing training didn't seem to matter during the CH onset 'cuz when you feel the pain, that's all you can focus on! It does help immensly, though, in the periods in between and helps me relax, breathe, and feel more balanced because I'm tuning in to how to make my body feel better after all that pain. My body doesn't feel as tense as it used to, so I feel yoga has made a difference.
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dolfan13
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #13 on: Sep 11th, 2006, 9:14pm » |
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Thanks everybody,I am going to pt message feels good anyway but doesnt help sometimes even feel worse. i agree moving if I wake up soon enough[always get mine in my sleep] I feel like running or something . Havent done this because Im always so confused at that point.My old doctor retired he always talked about triggers I stay away from alcohol big time someone else on here said theirs always came in the fall.Mine seem to be the same,could it be mold,pollen where I live is terrible Ky.
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Dave_S
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #14 on: Sep 13th, 2006, 12:49am » |
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Just to be clear I suffer no suicidal thoughts I have 0 Desire to be dead however it has been so bad at points that I not only held a loaded fire arm during attacks I put it in my mouth on more than 1 occasion. But certainly be clear no depression no desire to be dead merely a coping method to get through the next 30 seconds because if I admitted it would be almost 2 hours before the pain stopped I would have had 1 choice suicide.
I find it so ironic that I have been giving advice here from a doctor to seek out other medical provider. That is what dozens of doctors have recommended. Years before I was chronic I was episodic. Three years into my CH I had seen the HMO head neurologist he never mentioned 02 to me just tried a boat load of meds and said when it hurts come get A shot of pain killer. When an ER doc a very kind doc just out of Med school was not fazed by me beating my head against the wall he just whispered you have cluster head aches hold I can stop it. 15 minutes later I was right as rain a bloody healer with powers from god he gave me no MEDs He just put a big mask on my face I just found 02. 5 or 6 doctors refused to right a script for home oxygen I would have to see someone else to get that script.
Ask for pain MEDs what do I know pain meds are for pain and boy do I have that it is also a hell of a lot cheaper than the other doctors prescribed which you could only use twice a day they only worked 20 percent of the time.
I guess I could be come addicted to the opiates I however have no Idea what in the world that means? I understand that if I use them for long enough periods and abruptly stop using them I will get the worst flue imaginable but with no risk to my life.
Should I stop using my insulin am I addicted to it I will get sick if I quite using it for fear of addiction then I will die because my addiction to insulin is not being fed. A ton of the preventative
Drugs I have taken for my CH require the gradual with drawl under doctor’s care If you just quite cold turkey bad stuff will happen worse than the bad flue I think.
Depocote I took for CH did moderate damage to my liver another drug gave me diabetes I know diabetes as a side effect from meds well the drug manufacture has agreed to settle a boat load of claims brought as a class action. Each person gets a mid range 6 figure settlements. Another drug gave me a great case of serotonin syndrome. I am treated for this pain with a useless shot of opiates and copious amounts of phenagrin. I doubt dear doctor that I will take your advice and find another headache clinic the results of which I would be come just short of an invalid and in unbearable pain. So I can be a lab rat for the drug manufactures. I don’t think so
A question about the person under your care that you wrote 2 scripts for and got in some sort of trouble with a government regulatory agency. Are you still there doctor? Do you still Wright him scrips for opiates for them which clearly is in there best medical interest.
Or was dealing with your GOV to much trouble and he or she is sitting with a loaded fire arm in there mouth counting the seconds.
I am in pain taking pain medicine is not recommend because it takes to long to work.
My attacks at least run for just under 2 hours with a short break between attacks for 16 to 20 hours a day. I have moderate head pain at all times I have never heard of an opiate taking 12 hours to work
Lets recap do what your doctor says to do which is get a pain shot from the ER
Doctor says pain MEDS to risky to give so patient for at home use you must go to the ER where they dole out the pain MEDS after for many a 5 hour waite
Please some one enlighten me on the danger of getting addicted am I really so clueless as to not understand that the loss of a liver diabetes and serotonin syndrome are all mild compared to opiate addiction.
Just too worn down to write this better
Dave S
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George_J
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #15 on: Sep 13th, 2006, 2:04am » |
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Dave, there are many, many things going on in your post. I don't like some of them even one little bit. Despite your protestations that you are not suicidal, the act of putting a loaded handgun in your mouth and counting the seconds is not a healthy one.
I'd like to see if we can sort through your issues, one at a time.
Could you please start a separate thread for this? It's a bit confusing to have dolfan's thoughts and the responses to dolfan's questions intermingled with yours. If it's easier for you, perhaps you could just start a thread with your last post pasted in as the first entry.
Thank you,
George
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| « Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2006, 2:05am by George_J » |
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Ah! The foreigners put on such airs
Wearing the tangerine suits
And their harlequin eyes.
The pain they inspire
Draws in harmonica melodies
And the feathers of birds
Which flame up at their touch.
It all comes to light in the sheer
Debonair.
(Ellen)
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BB
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Re: Relaxation techniqes
« Reply #16 on: Sep 13th, 2006, 3:07am » |
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Dave,
I agree with George, please start your own thread, I would love to reply to your post and to clarify several things for you which I think are very important.
Take care, painfree wishes to you.
Annette
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