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Topic: Cluster brain "bank" (Read 1916 times) |
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Not4Hire
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Cluster brain "bank"
« on: Nov 7th, 2007, 10:41pm » |
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This is a copy-and-paste of a post I made on the ClusterBuster's site:
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Hey all,
It occurs to me that this subject was brought up at the Austin meeting
and I haven't seen any follow-up on this forum.
For those who couldn't be there: There is a organ donation "bank" that
keeps track of rare (and not-so-rare) diseases and accepts brains
donated from people who have passed on for examination and research.
I can't remember the institution involved, but I would like to get
more information. If anyone can provide more details, please post it
as I am sure there are folks here who also be willing to advance the
research.
I , for one, have a clean one-owner brain with relatively low mileage
that, unfortunately has some kind of "defect". I would be glad to
donate to any organization which could find a use for it when I am
done with it.
Anybody?
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It occurs to me some folks here might be interested in this.
best, notfer
edit: to add this: THANKS PAT!
Quote:On Oct 19, 2007 11:09 AM, John <thisreallyisjohn@yahoo.com> wrote:
Greetings All!
For those who are interested in donating their brains
for science and in particular for helping with cluster
headache research, you can indeed arrange donation to
my hospital. The Harvard Brain Tissue Resource Center
is proably the largest/most important on the East
Coast and one of the largest in the world. We might
even have several brains of people with CH already!
I'll try to ask over there before the conference about
this.
Here are the websites on how to donate and on the
Center:
http://www.brainbank.mclean.org/Donate.html
http://www.brainbank.mclean.org
Please donate!
best,
John
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| « Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2007, 7:49am by Not4Hire » |
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George_J
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #1 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 1:03am » |
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Sure, if it's for legitimate research, and not just another jugged brain collection a la' the nineteenth-century freak-show assemblages that still moulder in some of our institutions of higher learning, unused and unexamined.
Presuming I'm dead, I won't be using it anyway.
Best,
George
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Debonair.
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Brew
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #2 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 7:52am » |
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Dr. Frankenstein: Igor, would you mind telling me whose brain I did put in?
Igor: And you won't be angry?
Dr. Frankenstein: I will NOT be angry.
Igor: Abby someone.
Dr. Frankenstein: Abby someone. Abby who?
Igor: Abby Normal.
Dr. Frankenstein: Abby Normal?
Igor: I'm almost sure that was the name.
Dr. Frankenstein: Are you saying that I put an abnormal brain into a seven and a half foot long, fifty-four inch wide GORILLA? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME?
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Bob P
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #3 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:45am » |
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Many years ago Drummer asked Doc Goadsby what he needed most in his research. His response was cluster brains to study.
We tried to convince Elaine to leave her brain to him. I think shes still looking for it.
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Ghost
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #4 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 12:37pm » |
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I went in for a CT scan 3 years ago and after it was done I asked the doc if they found a problem(because I had to do it 2 times) he said they didnt find anything, I asked so nothing wrong? He replied he didnt find anything. After returning home I realized I missed a chance of a life time!
Mike
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Maffumatt
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on Nov 8th, 2007, 12:37pm, Ghost wrote:I went in for a CT scan 3 years ago and after it was done I asked the doc if they found a problem(because I had to do it 2 times) he said they didnt find anything, I asked so nothing wrong? He replied he didnt find anything. After returning home I realized I missed a chance of a life time!
Mike |
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Maybe because he didn't find anything?
sorry I couldn't resist.....
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fubar
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #6 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 7:34pm » |
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Dr. Sewell says that brain bank does not have any way to track which brains had CH. They only track certain things, and CH isn't one of them. He fears that if you donate your brain there, it would not contribute anything to CH research since they can't even tell Dr. Sewell if any of the brains there had the problem. It's not something they can just add to the list. he says Dr. Goadsby may eventually start up a brain bank for this purpose.
Quote:| So my concern is that you'd all donate your brains to Harvard, then I'd call them in ten years and ask them how many cluster headache brains they had, and they'd again say, "no idea!" Which isn't too useful for any of us. |
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-Fu
edited because I can't spell
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| « Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2007, 7:35pm by fubar » |
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Jonny
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #7 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 7:58pm » |
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on Nov 8th, 2007, 1:12pm, Maffumatt wrote:
Maybe because he didn't find anything?
sorry I couldn't resist.....
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BAWAHHHHH  
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Annette
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #8 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 8:55pm » |
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Brain autopsy can only find structural abnormality, not functional abnormality.
If you have had a MRI or PET scan and there was nothing abnormal seen such as enlarged areas or structural deviation or something similar, then no one will be able to see anything different chopping into it.
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KJ
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #9 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:09pm » |
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Hey Annette, will it ever be possible to fire electricity through a 'donated' brain to see how it works? If not, why not?
Just wondering.
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Annette
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #10 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:15pm » |
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Uhmmm ... it depends on whose brain it is ! Last I heard electricity doesnt travel through wood 
Joking !
Electricity can only be conducted along live tissues.
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Annette
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #11 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:18pm » |
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Otherwise firing electricity through a brain is called ECT - electroconvulsive treatment or more widely known as electric shock treatment.
Its not done to see how the brain works though, just to " jumpstart " the wirey circuit.
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Maffumatt
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Dr. Goadsby found abnormalities in the hypothalamus, both in structure and in function. Something about an extra layer of grey matter cells. Is that worth studying?
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Maffumatt
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/380497.stm
In the past, high-resolution brain scans have shown no abnormalities in the brain structure of cluster headache sufferers.
But using the latest imaging techniques, Professor Goadsby and colleagues found an increase of grey matter in an area of the brain known as the hypothalamus on the side where the headache occurs.
Whereas standard high resolution scans take a picture of the brain that doctors can examine, the new technique takes pictures of many brains.
A computer then analyses the pictures down to the finest detail, making extremely subtle differences apparent.
Because the differences were seen both when the patients were studied while they had a headache and also in a headache-free state, changes are likely to be permanent.
brain scan
The new scanning technique revealed abnormalities in the hypothalamus
Professor Goadsby said: "We also found that the area of the brain where these structural abnormalities were seen, the hypothalamus, is the same area of the brain where functional studies show that activity is abnormal during the headache state.
"This complete correlation of functional and structural abnormality is striking."
The hypothalamus is the part of the brain associated with circadian rhythms - the 24 hour rhythm of the human body.
"Our results demonstrate for the first time the precise location in the brain involved in cluster headaches and help to explain why this condition shows such striking seasonal variation and clock-like regularity," said Professor Goadsby.
"The findings have profound implications for understanding how the brain is affected in primary headaches."
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KJ
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #14 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:25pm » |
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Ok....then I guess I'm stunned that people have artificial limbs that are being controlled by natural electric impulses.
I must be stupid.
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Annette
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #15 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:26pm » |
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Its definitely worth studying Matt, the problem is its not established that whether its these abnormality that causes CH or whether CH causes these, ie the question of the egg and the chicken, and how significant is this change because not all CHers have this.
For comparison, they found a while ago that people with chronic mental illnesses such as schizophrenia and bipolar have a larger hippocampus area compared to normal people. At first they thought it was this abnormality that caused the condition. However, recently they found out that it was the illness itself that caused this area to hypertrophy ( ie become enlarged ). On top of it, to confuse even further, not everyone develops this abnormality either.
Brain imaging is a very new field.
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Maffumatt
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All the more reason to study brains from CHers...right?
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Annette
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #17 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:31pm » |
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on Nov 8th, 2007, 9:25pm, KJ wrote:Ok....then I guess I'm stunned that people have artificial limbs that are being controlled by natural electric impulses.
I must be stupid. |
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Not at all KJ, limbs are totally different in structures to the brain. The functions are very different too.
Limbs are basically mechanical beings that can be physically controlled by simple switches on and off, such as " bend this, release this, open this, close this ...." . Brain functions are much much more complex, we dont really understand how the brain works yet.
Artificial limbs cant yet have all the normal functions of a normal limbs such as temperature and touch sensation.
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Annette
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #18 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:33pm » |
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on Nov 8th, 2007, 9:28pm, Maffumatt wrote:| All the more reason to study brains from CHers...right? |
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Absolutely, but first one needs to understand how a CH brain works, and you cant learn how a brain works just by cutting into a dead one.
Thats why functional brain scans such as PET are so important.
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KJ
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #19 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:35pm » |
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on Nov 8th, 2007, 9:15pm, Annette wrote:
Electricity can only be conducted along live tissues. |
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So this is a false statement?
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Annette
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #20 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:43pm » |
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We are talking about 2 different things here, you were asking me if one could fire electricity through a donated brain ( ie dead tissue ) to study how it works. The answer is no you cant, because electricity wont travel through dead ( brain ) tissue.
Then you jumped to artificial limbs. Well, artificial limbs are not made of tissues as in skin and bones and blood, they are artificial ie made of metal and wires and plastics ... Electricity can travel through metal wires, yes.
You cant ask a specific question to get a specific answer then apply that same answer to something else totally unrelated.
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Kevin_M
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #21 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:45pm » |
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on Nov 8th, 2007, 9:15pm, Annette wrote:| Electricity can only be conducted along live tissues. |
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Annette, here is where you were not so precise because dead muscle tissue will respond with reflexes.
By the late 18th century, the stage was set for the definitive demonstration of the electrical nature of the agent of nerve conduction and muscle contraction.
Luigi Galvani's De viribus electricitatis in motu musculari commentarius (translated as Commentary on the effect of electricity on muscular motion) caused a considerable stir when it was published in 1791. His Commentary provides a delightful and charmingly domestic account of his experiments and the circumstances in which they were conducted. Most were performed on frogs. He made a convincing case for the existence of intrinsic animal electricity and showed clearly that it was identical to atmospheric electricity (as in storms) and artificial electricity produced by rubbing amber. His answer to another of Haller's objections to electricity being the nature of the agent of nerve action namely that electrical fluid would diffuse away through the good conducting medium provided by the tissues was that the oily covering of the nerves visible under the microscope would prevent the effusion and dissipation of the electric fluid.
Galvani also showed that electric phenomena existed in the nerves and muscles of sheep. His nephew, Giovanni Aldini, went further and, on a visit to London in 1803, concluded that it was also present in man as shown by the title of his book An account of the Galvanic experiments performed on the body of a malefactor executed at Newgate January 17th 1803. An expanded version of the book including macabre illustrations of experiments on guillotined criminals was published the following year in Paris. (Figure 1).
Fig. 1 Illustrations of Galvanism in a human, and in a dog. From Aldini, J. Essai: Théorique et expérimental sur le Galvanisme, Paris (1804).
http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/128/1/227
Yes, he did use dead people. Open and closed their eyes and mouth. What a weirdo 
*I see you responded to that while I posted.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2007, 10:02pm by Kevin_M » |
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Annette
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #22 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:50pm » |
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Interesting thing you find Kevin ! 
My question is " how long had these experimental creatures been dead for ? " prior to having the electricity put through them?
A donated brain is very dead, it would be pumped clean of blood, removed and washed and stored in a jar of formalin for weeks if not months before anyone would lay hand on it.
I can guarantee you that no electricity can be conducted through it.
Once you have handled one of those and actually chopped into one, you will agree with me 
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Kevin_M
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Re: Cluster brain "bank"
« Reply #23 on: Nov 8th, 2007, 9:55pm » |
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No Annette. He worked with muscles only, not the brain. The eyelids have muscles that will open and close, also the mouth.  You can see the name of his book is "... on muscular motion"
How long dead? I guess rigamortis hadn't set in.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2007, 10:00pm by Kevin_M » |
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Sean_C
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My body has been donated to Plastination
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