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Topic: Hilarycare? (Read 1399 times) |
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ClusterChuck
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Hilarycare?
« on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 5:33pm » |
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Is this what Hilary wants to do to us? We need some work done, but THIS is NOT the way to do it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Rf42zNl9U
BTW, this is NOT meant as a slam, or insult, or anything bad against our dear Ontario family members. It is just a travesty that this man, and his wife, had to go to such extraordinary means to get a serious condition corrected.
As bad as things can be here in the States, there is NO WAY I want to go to a system like this man had to deal with!
Chuck
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Jonny
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #1 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 5:49pm » |
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Thats just what you will get if you vote for her!
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
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Big_OUCH
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This sounds like a propaganda piece put out to deny universal health care in the US: pick a serious case that is caught up in a bureaucratic snafu and then generalize it to condemn the, in this case, Canadian Health Care System. Did you know that the US health care system ranks somewhere around 92nd in the world in terms of quality of care? Worse than some poor African countries. Canada is among the top 10 if I remember correctly. People in Western Europe, all of whom have "socialized" medicine, are among the healthiest people in the world and have just about the best health care system in the world. Sure, they pay a lot in premiums, deducted from their paychecks, but they don't have to worry about hospital or medical bills and their quality of life is very, very good. A person shoud never have to make a choice between getting medical attention or buying food or paying rent (and the docs in Canada and Europe are paid quite well and can even take private patients as private health insurance is an option). My 2 cents.
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Thimk
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on Aug 23rd, 2007, 5:33pm, ClusterChuck wrote:
As bad as things can be here in the States, there is NO WAY I want to go to a system like this man had to deal with!
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It depends on who you are - people in the US are being denied coverage here and are dying every day. And the same is happening in Canada. But maybe to a lesser degree.
Who was it here that has a sick kid, lost his job, and lost his insurance, and is now going bankrupt?
I'm not sure that one dramatic case of injustice elsewere is proof that our stinking rotten system is worth keeping.
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Big_OUCH
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on Aug 23rd, 2007, 6:01pm, Thimk wrote:
It depends on who you are - people in the US are being denied coverage here and are dying every day. And the same is happening in Canada. But maybe to a lesser degree.
Who was it here that has a sick kid, lost his job, and lost his insurance, and is now going bankrupt?
I'm not sure that one dramatic case of injustice elsewere is proof that our stinking rotten system is worth keeping.
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Amen
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Jonny
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #5 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 6:28pm » |
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on Aug 23rd, 2007, 6:01pm, Thimk wrote:| Who was it here that has a sick kid, lost his job, and lost his insurance, and is now going bankrupt? |
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Gee, thats an awful lot to know seeing that you just got here four hours ago!
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Rosybabe
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #6 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 6:35pm » |
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Thousands of Mayan Indians lost homes as Hurricane Dean blew through the Yucatan peninsula, but their real wealth was the trees, now scattered and broken in the storm's wake. Village after village is carpeted with fallen mangoes, oranges, guanabanas and mameys that will never be harvested.
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Kevin_M
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #7 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 6:46pm » |
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on Aug 23rd, 2007, 6:01pm, Thimk wrote:Who was it here that has a sick kid, lost his job, and lost his insurance, and is now going bankrupt?
I'm not sure that one dramatic case of injustice elsewere is proof that our stinking rotten system is worth keeping. |
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Hardly ingenious of you to pick one case to exemplify your reasoning, followed by saying you're not sure if one case is proof.
A hot housing market created millions of new home owners; the greatest property boom of the decade, on the coast of south Florida, made many Americans instantly rich -- at least those who cashed in before the bubble burst in 1925 and 1926. (Even William Jennings Bryan moved to Florida and secured a small fortune with a series of well-times investments and promotional activities. "Miami," quipped Bryan, "is the only city in the world where you can tell a lie at breakfast that will come true by evening." )
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| « Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2007, 6:53pm by Kevin_M » |
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artonio7
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #8 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 6:58pm » |
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Perhaps Hillary should fashion our national health care plan after the care that the Disabled American Veterans are receiving now.
That should spur a revolution. Sadly our current administration has no problem with the holes our soldiers are getting poked in them... but has significant problems with getting them band aids.
I still can not believe we are allowing this to happen... come on folks... why isn't or hasn't the current administration done anything to give our troops THE BEST CARE POSSIBLE when they return broken and bruised?
Oh that's right.... Hillary sabotaged them.
with warm regards,
Tony
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| « Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2007, 7:00pm by artonio7 » |
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ClusterChris
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #9 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 7:00pm » |
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Being from Ontario, I actually agree with ya Chuck, you DON"T want it. It is great for minor injuries such as breaks strains, and pains etc, however serious medical issues seem to get shelved for a very long time. If they would reduce our taxes significantly I would glady switch to the healthcare you guys recieve down in the States. Most people think we get "free" healthcare, but we pay for it through our taxes which actually costs us more in the long run.
Good Clip!
Chris
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Jonny
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #10 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 7:20pm » |
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on Aug 23rd, 2007, 7:00pm, ClusterChris wrote:| Being from Ontario, I actually agree with ya Chuck, you DON"T want it. |
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Cant argue with a dude that lives it, thats for sure! 
Edit to add: Great post, Tony!!!!
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| « Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2007, 7:21pm by Jonny » |
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Grandma_Sweet_Boy
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #11 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:05pm » |
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Y'know, I guess there's good and bad in any health care system.
We've sure experienced our share of it over the years and to be honest, there's never been one time that I felt we weren't getting all we should have.
We've dealth with cancer, massive heart attacks, blown aneurysms (sp?), a 3 year old grandson with medula blastoma, and even though our little guy didn't make it, believe me, it was not from doctors or a health care system that did not do all in their power for him.
It doesn't cost us tens of thousands of dollars for a simple hospital stay or to see a specialist. Not to suggest it's free - it isn't but when a family member has to be hospitalized, there's no bill handed out on departure. Our health care system is there for that reason.
Maybe we've just been lucky. Not lookin' for a debate - just sayin'!
Carol
Edited - to tell Chuck - there was nothing offensive or slammy (is that a word?) about your post, my friend.
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| « Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:12pm by Grandma_Sweet_Boy » |
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artonio7
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #12 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:18pm » |
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edited to point out:
This is NOT Tony. It is Chuck. Dummy me, did not realize that it was Tony who was logged in. Sorry for the confusion.
on Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:05pm, Grandma_Sweet_Boy wrote:Y'know, I guess there's good and bad in any health care system.
We've sure experienced our share of it over the years and to be honest, there's never been one time that I felt we weren't getting all we should have. |
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Thanks, Carol, this is what I was looking for, sort of, with my original post. I wanted to hear from several of you about YOUR experiences with your health care system.
ClusterChris, I appreciate your input too! As the two of you Ontarians (is that a word?) have shown, some have good luck, and some don't.
I guess the frustration that I would feel is that stupid law (in my mind) that says you CANNOT seek private care, that you are willing to pay for.
Thank you, both of you, for your input.
Let's hear from more of you in that fine province!
Chuck
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| « Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:19pm by artonio7 » |
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deltadarlin
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #13 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:23pm » |
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Hmm, just ask the good people of Tennessee what they think if Hilarycare (the system went bankrupt).
on Aug 23rd, 2007, 6:01pm, Big_OUCH wrote:| Did you know that the US health care system ranks somewhere around 92nd in the world in terms of quality of care? Worse than some poor African countries. |
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Don't think you'll be getting any change back on your 2 cents. I'm sorely afraid that wherever you got your information from shortchanged you.
According to WHO (World Health Organization, not *the* Who), the US ranks 37 in health care (Canada comes in at 30th) and there are no poor African countries that come in higher than the US.
There are only 2 countries that outrank the US in population. They are China and India and they rank 81 and 134 respectively in healthcare. Canada has apprx. 1/9 the population of the US, the UK and Australia of course are far less than that.
Universal health care will not work in the US the way it does in other countries, simply for the fact that you have 50 states that are an entity to themselves and not under one *umbrella* so to say as these other countries are. I can imagine New Yorkers would be more than willing to pay health care expenses for the poor in Louisiana!
Want more facts? Suck it up and google it.
'darlin (whose daughter was the object of so called universal healthcare and received substandard treatment).
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ClusterChris
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #14 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:27pm » |
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One more problem with our healthcare that was not mentioned is that all of our good doctors head down to the states where the money is. 1 family member and 1 close family friend went to the states for their treatment of cancer. That tells ya somethin!
Chris
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Jonny
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #15 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:29pm » |
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on Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:23pm, deltadarlin wrote:| Want more facts? Suck it up and google it.. |
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This IS the quote of the year!!!!!.....LMAO 
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Grandma_Sweet_Boy
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #16 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:39pm » |
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on Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:27pm, ClusterChris wrote:One more problem with our healthcare that was not mentioned is that all of our good doctors head down to the states where the money is. 1 family member and 1 close family friend went to the states for their treatment of cancer. That tells ya somethin!
Chris |
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Chris - I'll give you that we have lost "some" good doctors to the US and it is truly our loss, however, there are others that have gone and returned as they didn't like working within the system there.
And we still have lots of very good doctors here.
Damn - and I said this wasn't going to be a debate!
Carol
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ClusterChris
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #17 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:52pm » |
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Carol,
you better watch it, I'm heading to the CNE tomorrow morning. I don't want to have to make a detour to your place first lol! 
Chris
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Grandma_Sweet_Boy
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #18 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:56pm » |
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on Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:52pm, ClusterChris wrote:Carol,
you better watch it, I'm heading to the CNE tomorrow morning. I don't want to have to make a detour to your place first lol!
Chris
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Not to hijack a thread or anything - but why on earth would you come all this way for the CN. She's a tired out old lady anymore. Just kidding you - wish I'd known earlier you were coming - could have arranged to meet up for coffee somewhere - like the Food Building!
Enjoy your day.
Carol
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Charlie
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #19 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 9:50pm » |
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I'll take it any time. We have to put up with our compassionate conservative. Here is the latest:
The Bush administration, continuing its fight to stop states from expanding the popular Children’s Health Insurance Program, has adopted new standards that would make it much more difficult for New York, California and others to extend coverage to children in middle-income families.
Administration officials outlined the new standards in a letter sent to state health officials on Friday evening, in the middle of a monthlong Congressional recess. In interviews, they said the changes were intended to return the Children’s Health Insurance Program to its original focus on low-income children and to make sure the program did not become a substitute for private health coverage.
After learning of the new policy, some state officials said yesterday that it could cripple their efforts to cover more children and would impose standards that could not be met.
“We are horrified at the new federal policy,” said Ann Clemency Kohler, deputy commissioner of human services in New Jersey. “It will cause havoc with our program and could jeopardize coverage for thousands of children.”
Stan Rosenstein, the Medicaid director in California, said the new policy was “highly restrictive, much more restrictive than what we want to do.”
The poverty level for a family of four is set by the federal government at $20,650 in annual income. Many states have received federal permission to cover children with family incomes exceeding twice the poverty level — $41,300 for a family of four. In New York, which covers children up to 250 percent of the poverty level, the Legislature has passed a bill that would raise the limit to 400 percent— $82,600 for a family of four — but the change is subject to federal approval.
California wants to increase its income limit to 300 percent of the poverty level, from 250 percent. Pennsylvania recently raised its limit to 300 percent, from 200 percent. New Jersey has had a limit of 350 percent for more than five years.
As with issues like immigration, the White House is taking action on its own to advance policies that have not been embraced by Congress.
In his budget in February, President Bush proposed strict limits on family income for the child health program. Both houses of Congress voted this month to renew the program for five years, but neither chamber accepted that proposal. Legal authority for the program expires on Sept. 30.
The administration’s new policy is explained in a letter that was sent about 7:30 p.m. on Friday to state health officials from Dennis G. Smith, the director of the federal Center for Medicaid and State Operations. The policy would continue indefinitely, though Democrats in Congress could try to override it.
The Children’s Health Insurance Program has strong support from governors of both parties, including Republicans like Arnold Schwarzenegger of California, Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and Sonny Perdue of Georgia. When the Senate passed a bill to expand the program this month, 18 Republican senators voted for it, in defiance of a veto threat from Mr. Bush. The House passed a more expansive bill and will try to work out differences with the Senate when Congress reconvenes next month.
In his letter, Mr. Smith set a high standard for states that want to raise eligibility for the child health program above 250 percent of the poverty level.
Before making such a change, Mr. Smith wrote, states must demonstrate that they have “enrolled at least 95 percent of children in the state below 200 percent of the federal poverty level” who are eligible for either Medicaid or the child health program.
Deborah S. Bachrach, a deputy commissioner in the New York State Health Department, said, “No state in the nation has a participation rate of 95 percent.”
And Cindy Mann, a research professor at the Health Policy Institute of Georgetown University, said, “No state would ever achieve that level of participation under the president’s budget proposals.”
The Congressional Budget Office has said that the president’s budget, which seeks $30 billion for the program from 2008 to 2012, is not enough to pay for current levels of enrollment, much less to cover children who are eligible but not enrolled.
When Congress created the Children’s Health Insurance Program in 1997, it said the purpose was to cover “uninsured low-income children.” Under the law, states are supposed to make sure public coverage “does not substitute for coverage under group health plans.”
It goes on the drift is that Bush & Co. have zero interest in anyone not in the oil business. It's a classic Bush eliminating by not funding anything that helps those that need it most. It's shameful.
Anything beats what we have.
Charlie
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Paul98
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I will be for universal health care when the politicians sign on AND USE the same system of health care they are trying to pawn off on the masses and don't use the one they are using now. How 'bout them apples Hillary!
-P.
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Linda_Howell
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #21 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 11:11pm » |
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I will be for universal health care when the politicians sign on AND USE the same system of health care they are trying to pawn off on the masses and don't use the one they are using now. How 'bout them apples Hillary!
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When that happens pigs will fly and maybe they can do something for that rash of yours Paul.
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ClusterChris
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #22 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 11:31pm » |
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Quote:| but why on earth would you come all this way for the CN. |
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Been taking the kids for 4 years straight, they love it. It's only a little over an hour to get there and we are staying at the quality in suites inn oakville as well. It's a little get away for the familly.
Sorry I didn't know sooner I would have loved to meet up with ya. This was a last minute trip we decided to do over breakfast this morning since We havent done much on our holidays thus far.
Chris
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| « Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2007, 11:31pm by ClusterChris » |
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Big_OUCH
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on Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:23pm, deltadarlin wrote:Hmm, just ask the good people of Tennessee what they think if Hilarycare (the system went bankrupt).
Don't think you'll be getting any change back on your 2 cents. I'm sorely afraid that wherever you got your information from shortchanged you.
According to WHO (World Health Organization, not *the* Who), the US ranks 37 in health care (Canada comes in at 30th) and there are no poor African countries that come in higher than the US.
There are only 2 countries that outrank the US in population. They are China and India and they rank 81 and 134 respectively in healthcare. Canada has apprx. 1/9 the population of the US, the UK and Australia of course are far less than that.
Universal health care will not work in the US the way it does in other countries, simply for the fact that you have 50 states that are an entity to themselves and not under one *umbrella* so to say as these other countries are. I can imagine New Yorkers would be more than willing to pay health care expenses for the poor in Louisiana!
Want more facts? Suck it up and google it.
'darlin (whose daughter was the object of so called universal healthcare and received substandard treatment). |
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Thanks for correcting my figures, 'delta. Still, for the US to be 37th in the health care ranking is, IMHO, a disgrace. Charlie did a good job of summing up the Bush attitude towards health care. In most countries that have public health care, one can always purchase private insurance if one wants to, so people do have a choice. Years ago, public health care was equated with Communism-now that the Commies are gone, scare stories are trotted out to try to convince Americans that universal health care would result in terrible consequences for patients. Emergency rooms are very expensive to use and many poor people use them when they are desparately ill because they can't afford to visit a family doctor and the cost is passed on to the rest of us, raising hospital costs for all. The system needs to be fixed; it is ironic that American farmers are paid tons of money NOT to grow crops-and that is considered OK-but people are denied health care or go bankrupt getting it. This is wrong. The US should be #1 in terms of health care, not 37th-the future of our country depends upon it. The military health care system is pure socialist, generally works well (and the majority of patients are not wounded soldiers but the wives and children of active duty military with colds, infections, broken bones, the usual stuff one sees anywhere). Why can't the rest of us have such good care? I'm sure that most people would gladly pay extra health care taxes to be guaranteed decent care and not have to worry about losing the house or car or putting off care until it becomes a serious or life threatening condition. I am in favor of the free enterprise system and capitalism, but in the area of health care call me a Socialist. I happen to have excellent health insurance, so I don't have to worry about cost, but millions of fellow Americans have poor or no health insurance (I couldn't afford mine without my employer paying the majority of the premiums-they are really outrageous).
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Batch
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Re: Hilarycare?
« Reply #24 on: Aug 24th, 2007, 2:45am » |
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Many of you responding to Chucks post have hit on parts of the problem, but are pointing mostly at symptoms. Congress, not the President, is in the driver's seat, and without pressure from voters, will roll with the special interest groups as they push big buck$ into their pockets... Tony brought up a good point on the VA... Our fighting men and women get the very best medical treatment in the world, but when they are forced out of the military service and into the VA... they fall in a BIG CRACK controlled by laws passed in congress and insufficient funding appropriated by the house.
If you really want to do something, write, fax, and email your congressman and senators. Tell them what you think, and if they don't take responsible action, you'll not be voting for them in the next election. They all go to be treated by the best medical professionals in the world at Walter Reed and Navy Bethesda... And, they will continue to do so after leaving office until they die... They don't need to worry about medicare or medicaid... They've voted themselves the very best medical insurance money can buy.
On the other hand, Military Veterans, our nations finest, who risked their lives to keep America free and safe from foreign threats, will be subject to the bureaucratic vagaries of medicare and medicaid (and congressmen that hide bribe money in their freezer) if they are able care for themselves, and the VA if they cannot.
IMHO... As far as Hillary goes, she's a marxist trained socialist, and she's been one since she was in school. She had the opportunity to push socialized medicine when she was FLOTUS... Congress and the voters told her to stuff it... in no uncertain terms for good reason. It was a terrible disastrous plan. Her present plan isn't going to be any better.
Back to congress... The present leftists in the house just passed a child health care bill with a fast gavel by one vote prior to departing on a month long vacation. If this bill is passed by the senate and not vetoed by the President, it will:
1. Provide illegal aliens free health care outside the ER
2. Pay for free health care for folks up to the age of 21
3. Reduce medical coverage to citizen taxpayers on medicare/medicaid
4. Result in an uncontrollable increase in the budget deficit, and
5. Likely result in the single largest tax increase in history.
Neat Huh?
Some Federal Budget Figures from Wikipedia:
2007 Federal Budget Proposed by the President $2.8 Trillion
2007 Total Receipts $2.4 Trillion
Budget Breakdown $2.98 Trillion in total spending bills passed by congress and approved by the President - (these are just the BIG ones):
Defense $439.3 billion - 24.9% of the total Federal Budget
Social Security $586.1 billion
Medicare $394.5 billion
Unemployment and Welfare $367.0 billion
Medicaid $276.4 billion
Interest on the Debt $243.7 billion
Education and Training $89.9 billion
Transportation $76.9 billion
Veterans' benefits $72.6 billion
Education and Training $89.9 billion
Now ask yourself... Are you happy with the following?
1. the safety of the bridges you drive over on a daily basis
2. the quality of public education
3. the fact that congress still has not fully funded the fence
4. that illegal aliens will be given free health care while you will not
5. that the VA has never been fully funded to take care of our Veterans
6. that social security is still broken and illegal aliens will get it if given amnesty and you will get less... a lot less
7. that illegal aliens, drug smugglers, and terrorists are still pouring over our Southern boarder
8. that if Hillary's social medicine comes to pass, bureaucrats, politicians, and their special interest groups will decide what you will and will not be treated for and what medications you may or may not get instead of these decisions being made by doctors.
If you are... vote for Hillary and the rest of the socialists. I'll not. And if you do, we'll all still be waiting in line to get medicare/medicaid to pay for our O2. My 2 cents...
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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, not any before nor after, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. Man has one virginity to lose in fighters, and if it is a lovely airplane he loses it to, there is where his heart will forever be.
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