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catlind
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Any lawyers who can advise...
« on: May 21st, 2007, 6:56pm » |
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on juvenile proceedings at the pre trial stage?
I have no idea what to expect when we go to court tomorrow and when we went to the arraignment we almost didn't get to bring Alex home with us.
Any info would be appreciated.
Cat
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deltadarlin
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #1 on: May 21st, 2007, 7:35pm » |
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Has your lawyer not prepped you on what to expect? You have my number cat, use it if you need it (except for Wednesday night and Thursday, daughter is having surgery).
Carolyn
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catlind
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #2 on: May 21st, 2007, 10:14pm » |
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Actually yes, the lawyer called a little after 7 pm. We go to pretrial, they set the charges out and the prosecutor will again try to gain placement of Alex and then we go to trial.
Everything we hoped for, that at pretrial they would dismiss, because the charges are as false as false can get, but that is not to be so.
It's been $750 to retain the lawyer to the end of pretrial tomorrow. We can't afford a lawyer, juvenile or immigration for the trial. Rock and a hard place.
Maybe it's just my frame of mind, but right now I see no way for this to turn out good.
There are alot of twists and turns to it all that I won't go into boring details with, but if what I see in the future has any grain of truth, I will lose my first born in more ways than one.
Cat
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thebbz
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #3 on: May 21st, 2007, 10:40pm » |
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If I were a lawyer I wouldn't tell anyone here 
Good luck and best wishes in court.
jb
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #4 on: May 22nd, 2007, 1:17am » |
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If it's a pre-trial, nothing will happen yet. The charges are read and the possible penalties are stated. The offender is offered to plea guilty or not guilty (depending on the charges), Always plead not guilty and set a future court date. gives you more time to prepare.
Unless the offender is already incarcerated, then depending on the charges & history, they would be released and a court date would be set OR a bail amount would be set and a court date.
Juvenile offenders can get away with alot of stuff as long as the parents step in and say they don't want them incarcerated. Of course, this won't work for serious crimes or habitual offenders.
goodluck
unsolved
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catlind
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #5 on: May 22nd, 2007, 1:48am » |
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We've already entered denial at the arraignment. The pretrial is to determine to what extent of the law they wish to prosecute and set a trial date.
The charges against him, the one is ridiculous, and the 911 tapes will have that charge dropped, the other is a level IV felony for an adult, but I don't know what it means for a juvenile.
He did a very very very stupid thing when he threatened to kill his bio father - granted it was under duress, his father had tried to restrain him and then hit him, and Alex responded with "I'll kill you" and no we face "uttering terroristic threats". That's the charge that will go to trial.
They've already tried every trick they have to detain him, to include bringing in child protective services and health and human services.
I don't expect he'll come home with us tomorrow, depending on when they set the trial date for.
It's a mess, there's a great deal of bogus statements in the police and detective affidavit, but it's our word against theres. Guess who they believe?
I honestly can't remember a time I've been so desperate and down.
There's nothing to do now but let this play out.
Cat
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Woobie
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #6 on: May 22nd, 2007, 11:22am » |
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OH Cat
I dont know nothing about nuthin...........
but i just wanted to say.............
Hang in there - ok??
oh - and to give you this 
woobs 
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #7 on: May 22nd, 2007, 11:28am » |
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Sorry to hear. But, argueing or fighting with your father and saying mean things does NOT warrant a lengthy sentence for a juvenile. I'm sure they don't really want to incarcerate the juvenile either, they just want to prevent future problems. Every parent and child will argue sometimes and sometimes they say things that they don't realy mean. It sounds like some couseling and anger management may be in order. Probably probation also. I don't see any time for them though. I'm sure the felony will be reduced to a misdemeanor.
Also, the longer you are able to delay the actual trial, the better. Their are kids ( and adults ) out there doing alot worse things.
Goodluck
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catlind
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #8 on: May 22nd, 2007, 2:14pm » |
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Well trial is set for July 13th (a Friday no less). As for trying to detain him, they tried to detain him from the time they took him out of Children's Hospital in handcuffs.
When they couldn't legally detain him because his arraignment date was too far off (they can only hold a juvenile for 24 to 48 hours before arraignment), the prosecuter tried to get him put into placement.
The biggest issue surrounding all this is that at the exact same time Alex pulled his stupid stunt, Virginia Tech happened, NASA happened, and 3 local area high schools had threats - 1 bomb threat and 2 gun violence threats.
Those threats were actually uttered though, and to the institutions involved. Alex's only uttered threat was directly to his father, and I sent a log I had written with the police to give to the hospital so they could help him - apparently the cops decided to use it against us.
It will require his father coming down here for trial, or at least giving a sworn statement that he did not feel any imminent threat, and he in fact spent the next 2 days and nights in the same house in rooms that were next door to each other. Some serious terror there....
After today, the lawyer gave us the impression that the prosecuter was much more open to this scenario as it wasn't the same situation as the other 3 who are in detention and will remain so until their trial date.
So until July, there's not much else we can do - we wait it out and hope they drop it to a misdemeanor and he does probation or community service.
The only question now is do I use a 2x4 on him or give him a hug.
Cat
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Jimi
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #9 on: May 22nd, 2007, 3:06pm » |
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Both 
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LeLimey
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #10 on: May 22nd, 2007, 3:25pm » |
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Hug Alex and use the 2X4 on his dad 
lots of love to you and yours Cat
Helen xxx
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Annette
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #11 on: May 22nd, 2007, 5:18pm » |
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Sorry I cant be of much help here but I would like to send you and a Alex a great big hug and let you know that you are both in our prayers.
Use the 2x4 as firewood ...
Annette
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #12 on: May 22nd, 2007, 8:13pm » |
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My young nephew became an habitual offender. He had good parents, money, and an education ... but got into the wrong crowd and started using drugs. They ended up breaking into houses to steal for cash for more drugs. They were also drug dealing. His dad bailed him out and got him good lawyers several times before he turned 18. Then he ripped his dad off for 30k and beat up a Louisville cop! The judges finally got tired of seeing him and as soon as he turned 18 yrs old, they gave him 10 years in Kentucky state prison. He's been there for about a year now.
Parents or law officials or someone needs to try and break these bad habits before the juveniles get out of control and get some serious time in prison. Maybe, in some cases, bailing out a juvenile may not be the best thing to do. !!??
Goodluck
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Redd
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #13 on: May 22nd, 2007, 9:00pm » |
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Cat,
We've talked...
You know I am a full supporter of "natural consequences".
We can teach our children well, but when their "will: is stronger than the teaching, it's time to let them feel the consequences of their actions. We cannot protect them from the realities of life. Only prepare them.
If they choose not to learn, that is a choice. Then consequences come into play. Called tough love in some circles...sometimes it's the best route. Even if they hate you forever (it's not really), but they end up productive citizens, you have done your job. They come around.
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kayarr
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #14 on: May 22nd, 2007, 10:33pm » |
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on May 22nd, 2007, 9:00pm, Redd wrote:Cat,
We've talked...
You know I am a full supporter of "natural consequences".
We can teach our children well, but when their "will: is stronger than the teaching, it's time to let them feel the consequences of their actions. We cannot protect them from the realities of life. Only prepare them.
If they choose not to learn, that is a choice. Then consequences come into play. Called tough love in some circles...sometimes it's the best route. Even if they hate you forever (it's not really), but they end up productive citizens, you have done your job. They come around. |
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Natural consequences are the only way I survived the eldest daughter. she is very smart and she learned much quicker than she would have had I done it differently.
(and she loves me a lot, NOW.)
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alienspacebabe
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #15 on: May 22nd, 2007, 10:47pm » |
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I, too, believe in natural consequences.
This case, it seems, has gone far beyond natural consequences and has reached the point of seeming vindictiveness.
Natural consequences, yes. Do it. But continue to protect him from this ridiculous attempt at prosecution.
jmho,
Lizzie
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kayarr
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #16 on: May 22nd, 2007, 10:53pm » |
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anyway you look at it anything to do with our children just hurts our hearts. I know you are making thoughtful decisions and you know your child better than anyone. Really all any of us can do is follow our hearts.
Trust your gut.
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catlind
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #17 on: May 23rd, 2007, 1:49am » |
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on May 22nd, 2007, 8:13pm, UN solved wrote:My young nephew became an habitual offender. He had good parents, money, and an education ... but got into the wrong crowd and started using drugs. They ended up breaking into houses to steal for cash for more drugs. They were also drug dealing. His dad bailed him out and got him good lawyers several times before he turned 18. Then he ripped his dad off for 30k and beat up a Louisville cop! The judges finally got tired of seeing him and as soon as he turned 18 yrs old, they gave him 10 years in Kentucky state prison. He's been there for about a year now.
Parents or law officials or someone needs to try and break these bad habits before the juveniles get out of control and get some serious time in prison. Maybe, in some cases, bailing out a juvenile may not be the best thing to do. !!??
Goodluck
UNsolved
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Not exactly sure what you mean by those statements; Alex is a 15 y/o who's worst offence to date has been not cleaning his room and swearing in class.
The charges against him are resisting arrest (he did not and we have a street full of witnesses and the 911 tapes to prove that), and uttering terroristic threats - because he threatened his father's life in the heat of the moment under duress.
Let me be clear on one thing, there are NO weapons in this house, there were 2 airsoft guns, they shoot little plastic bb's at about 210fps. Alex and I also had an altercation that night, and he discovered that his rage doesn't even come close to being able to overcome mine.
He's a straight A student with a 132 IQ and in the High Ability Learner program in Millard school district; He started freshman year taking 2 sophomore classes and 1 junior class. He'll start 10th grade with junior and senior classes. He's brilliant with academics, just dumb as a door knob with common sense.
If I thought for one min. that he was a danger to anyone, I would call CPS myself....that was why we called 911 in the first place, because we knew he needed professional help - he was suicidal - and we knew he wouldn't go with us willingly. And now we are being punished for it.
Don't get me wrong, I would be happier than a pig in $hit if the charges were all dropped; however, that won't excuse him from consequences. We've already discussed this, and if the charges are dropped, he'll have to do 40 hours community service with the charities of his choice.
He will also be responsible to pay for part of the legal fees.
I have done all I can do, the rest is up to him. I refuse to care more about him than he does about himself. I am destroying myself trying, and there are 4 other people in this family that don't deserve to be held hostage under emotional blackmail.
Anyway, I'll get off my soap box, but I don't believe that hanging him out to dry would have any positive results.
Cat
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deltadarlin
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #18 on: May 23rd, 2007, 8:59am » |
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Cat,
I know we've talked about some of the other issues in your family. When my daughter screwed up, it was apparent that the person that she was hurting the most was herself. Yes, *we* were hurt too, but her actions brought the toughest consequences on herself.
Hug your kids and remember that even though what they do looks *adult*, they're still only kids and kids screw up and make horrendous mistakes. I think you're son is getting the brunt of everything else that has happened, unless I'm missing something, the authorities are way over-reacting.
I'm not sure if your son is still in counseling, but if not, get him there immediately. Have they run any psychological tests on him? If you've got a good p'doc, he may be your best ally.
Sending what strength I have left.
Carolyn
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catlind
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #19 on: May 23rd, 2007, 9:28am » |
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Carolyn, I believe you are correct in saying the authorities are over reacting. It is primarily due to the other area threats. All 3 of those juveniles are in detention, Alex is not.
I will call you later today, things have been really hectic. Alex is still in counselling, with both a p doc and a therapist. As is the rest of the family. We have approached this as a family dynamic rather than an attitude of "this is his problem not ours".
However, he has broken a few of the rules in the behaviour contract, and that is emotional blackmail. I wont' allow that kind of behaviour, I won't allow emotional blackmail to disrupt and cause grief to my other children.
Anger management is something else we are working on with him, appropriate responses to things that make him angry - such as not telling your bio father to F off etc.
The dynamics of this situation run very very deep.
I only know that he's a good smart kid, who is in crisis (or was in crisis) and felt he had no one to turn to.
Cat
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deltadarlin
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #20 on: May 23rd, 2007, 9:46am » |
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Cat,
You might want to hang on calling me. I have to take Sarah to Shreveport for her pre-op and she have surgery tomorrow morning. Don't know what time we'll be getting home (although it shouldn't be too late).
Carolyn
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BlueMeanie
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #21 on: May 23rd, 2007, 6:21pm » |
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Hi Cat,
Sorry to hear the family problems you got going on. Unfortunately, the prosecutors and cops know the game and try being nice and hitting you when your down. They will lie every step of the way. Scare tactics work pretty darn good for first timers going through something like this and they know it. I wouldn't believe a thing they say. Listen to your lawyer. Remember they have to proove everything to the judge who is much smarter than them.
on May 22nd, 2007, 1:48am, catlind wrote:we face "uttering terroristic threats"
there's a great deal of bogus statements in the police and detective affidavit, but it's our word against theres. Guess who they believe? |
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Don't think so fast. That's what they want you to believe.
on May 22nd, 2007, 2:14pm, catlind wrote:The biggest issue surrounding all this is that at the exact same time Alex pulled his stupid stunt, Virginia Tech happened, NASA happened, and 3 local area high schools had threats - 1 bomb threat and 2 gun violence threats.
When in a courtroom, the judge will only concider facts based on your case. All that other stuff has nothing to do with your case. It's another scare tactic.
I sent a log I had written with the police to give to the hospital so they could help him - apparently the cops decided to use it against us.
That's another ploy thay will use. Talk nice and tell you it's no big deal until AFTER you sign a statement.
It will require his father coming down here for trial, or at least giving a sworn statement that he did not feel any imminent threat
Yep, that should straigten out the problem with that charge. That I know of, its' NOT against the law for just saying you'll do something.
there's not much else we can do - we wait it out and hope they drop it to a misdemeanor and he does probation or community service.
That's what they do. Come up with as many possible charges they can think of so you'll negotiate (give in) to some sort of plea bargain. Talk to the lawyer.
The whole scenerio sounds pretty fishy to me. GOOD LUCK Cat, hope it all works out. |
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midwestbeth
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Re: Any lawyers who can advise...
« Reply #22 on: May 23rd, 2007, 6:54pm » |
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Catlind,
You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.
Beth
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