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Topic: What say you? (Read 948 times) |
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Jonny
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What say you?
« on: Nov 30th, 2006, 7:27pm » |
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"In more general terms, this case challenges the right of an employer to control employees' personal lives and activities by prohibiting legal private conduct the employer finds to be dangerous, distasteful or disagreeable," the lawsuit said.
http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1130fired-smoker30-ON.html
Please put your personal feelings about smoking aside and tell me what you think of this.
Whats next?......controling how people eat at home so they dont become fat and a drain on the companies medical insurance costs?
WTF?
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
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Shedz
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #1 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 7:35pm » |
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F*****G disgracefull. Surely a gross invasion of an individuals right to privacy???????????
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I push my fingers into my eyes, It's the only thing that slowly stops the ache, But it's made of all the things I have to take, Jesus it never ends it just works its way inside, If the pain goes on, I AM gonna make it.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xps7AM8HbjE
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BarbaraD
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #2 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 7:38pm » |
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I don't agree with it (the company that is). What you do in your home or your own time is up to you. Drugs I can see, but alcohol and nicotine are "personal".
The city of Gladewater wanted to pass an ordinance that there would be no smoking in any business in town. That's when I told them that when their name went on my deed, they could do as they damn well pleased, but as long as my name was on the deed - it was PRIVATE PROPERTY and they could go to hell. That was the end of that little uproar.
But as an employer I would have NEVER thought to tell my employees that they couldn't do this or that in their off hours. I had rules at work that they had to follow, but after 5 they were on their own.
We've got entirely too much government interference in our lives now -- we don't need employers getting in on the act too.
But on the other hand - a guy got fired in Arlington because he ate a poppyeseed hamburger bun and tested positive for that. I think he won his suit.
Oh well......
Hugs BD
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What don't kill ya, Makes ya stonger!
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Sean_C
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I hope this employee wins huge. JMHO
Sean..............................................
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JeffB
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #4 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 7:49pm » |
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It's sad, but the trend seems to be growing in popularity with business. I for one would laugh in the face of a prospective employer if that stipulation was put before me. I hope he wins the suit and I'm wondering where the fuck is the ACLU on this one.
And, I don't think I'll be purchasing any Scott products again.
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" It's been my experience that people who have no vices have very little virtues."
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Jonny
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #5 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 7:54pm » |
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Isnt it great that you can work for Scott mixing cancer (long term) causing material, BUT you Cant have a smoke at home?
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Brew
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #6 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 8:03pm » |
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If they're going to do this, they'd better make tobacco illegal. They won't because the government is totally addicted to the tax revenue.
Regarding this particular case, if the guy had it in writing that the company was going to help him quit and that he wouldn't be tested for nicotine, then he has a case. But folks, this is between a PRIVATE company and one of its employees. It pains me to say it (being a smoker myself), but a private company should be able to hire and fire people based on whether or not that person is an increased risk to the company. Keep the government out of it and let the business decide.
On a philisophical level, I don't have a problem with smokers paying higher insurance premiums. This is all about a relationship between a private insurance company and one of its clients. Again, keep the gubmint out of it.
(Those who know me know that I am just to the right of Ghengis Khan on the political spectrum)
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Always remember that you're unique, just like everyone else.
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Jonny
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 8:24pm » |
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on Nov 30th, 2006, 8:03pm, brewcrew wrote:| this is between a PRIVATE company and one of its employees. |
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So what happens when this is cool and then the company starts with "Opps, you have too much body fat, your fired??......We are sorry but the likes of you are a drain on our medical insurance.
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Paul98
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I think it wrong of the company. If you substitute smoker with say, skydiver, fat, drinker, religous person, wears glasses........what do you think the outcry would be?
You don't hear the outcry for tobacco users because the state nannys have done a good job of demonizing it.
I think if private companys want to dictate what their employees can and cannot do on non-company time it opens some very disturbing doors. What if the company chooses to select the race of it's employees?
I think a company should base hiring on the workers productivity only!
-P.
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floridian
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Hopefully, the activist judges will Act to protect liberties and crush my cynical view that employees in most states in America have exactly one right: the ability to look for a new job if they don't like things (or if their boss doesn't like them for any reason). Its called employment 'at the will' of the employer, and it is a back-bone of conservative economic/political theory. I'm surprised that a Reaganite like yourself would be opposed to this.
Quote:To understand why US business climate is different than the rest of the World, look at US employment contracts - this is the only country in the world where "at-will" employment is legal & the norm. The result in the US is that despite the low unemployment here, workers are more fearful of loosing their income than in any other western country because employers make no commitment to compensate you from one day to the next.
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What about the person who got fired two years ago because they drove a car to work that had a Kerry bumper sticker on it? Did Republicans put aside their contempt for the opposing party to champion the political freedoms of the average worker? I think not. They had a good chuckle - that person learned a lesson about how things really work here.
Or the Disney policies on grooming - when they bought the 'Love Boat' they told the captain to shave his beard off or look for new work. He told them to shove it, but nobody really cared if the new management fired ole captain Steubinoff.
That reminds me - I need to rummage through my drawers and find a few extra pieces of flair to wear tommorrow. The policy is 12 pieces, but I want to exceed expectations. 
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| « Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2006, 8:48pm by floridian » |
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Jonny
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #10 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 8:50pm » |
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I dont care how you juggle this....its just plain wrong against what this country stands for to tell you what you can do in private!....LEGALLLY!!!!!
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Sean_C
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I think the point he's making Flo is its an "off' the clock deal. If a Superintendant of schools does not want you smoking in the classroom with the kinderkids, then those are the "rules"
However, if the teacher smokes a cigar at his daughters wedding and gets "tested" for nicotine the next day at work and gets fired for it, then thats way wrong. Am I making sense?
Cheers
Sean...................................................
Edit to add: My company health insurance premium will not increase because someone on the ploicy in the family smokes.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2006, 9:04pm by Sean_C » |
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floridian
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on Nov 30th, 2006, 8:50pm, Jonny wrote:| I dont care how you juggle this....its just plain wrong against what this country stands for to tell you what you can do in private!....LEGALLLY!!!!! |
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I'm not juggling anything ... I think its wrong, too. Most conservatives do not think its wrong - they see work as an agreement or contract, and either party can walk away or refuse to play if they don't like the conditions that the other party is trying to impose. Only a liberal would assert that individuals have a right to refuse the demands of their employer and keep their job.
Welcome to our side, Jonny!
Sean - I know what your getting at - but corporations have long wanted to (and in this country, have) controlled aspects of the private lives of their workers. Henry Ford had Pinkertons check to make sure that his workers went to church every Sunday, and he fired those that made a habit of not doing so. It sucks, but hey, thats capitalism. Golden Rules. There have been some protections extended to workers against this, but it has mostly dissappeared out of practicality - too costly and generates too much bad publicity. But that type of control is not illegal per se.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2006, 9:06pm by floridian » |
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Sean_C
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Your right Flo, there's cases that were in favor of the employer all over the place, it just sucks that it has to be that way.
Sean...............................
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Jonny
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #14 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 9:08pm » |
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on Nov 30th, 2006, 9:00pm, floridian wrote:| Welcome to our side, Jonny! |
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Im on the side that I come down on, Flo......its an American right
How long has it been since Henry Ford breathed a breath?
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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chewy
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What I think is that whatever they saved on insurance premiums is about to be lost to a legal settlement x10.
Then that will be the last of that employment rule.
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Sean_C
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on Nov 30th, 2006, 9:08pm, Jonny wrote:How long has it been since Henry Ford breathed a breath?
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LOL thats a tongue twister if I ever saw one 
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thebbz
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #17 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 9:16pm » |
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Those Bastards!
jb
Edit: So I suppose sex by the watercooler is out of the question?.......
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| « Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2006, 9:18pm by thebbz » |
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It wasn't me I didn't do it
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Jonny
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #18 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 9:19pm » |
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on Nov 30th, 2006, 9:16pm, thebbz wrote:
JB....We the company here by tell you that you can not smoke on the bridge
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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floridian
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So what about the 'morals clauses' they put into contracts with celebrities - can't a sports figure or actor get drunk and stupid on their time off with out losing their livelihood?
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Jonny
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #20 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 9:34pm » |
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on Nov 30th, 2006, 9:31pm, floridian wrote:| So what about the 'morals clauses' they put into contracts with celebrities - can't a sports figure or actor get drunk and stupid on their time off with out losing their livelihood? |
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That has nothing to do with what they do in their own home......am I wrong here, Flo?
Need sleep, Night, Flo.....love you!
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Sean_C
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Does your health insurance premium go up if ?
You drink alcohol ?
Ride without a seatbelt ?
Swim in deep water ?
Work with someone who has aids ?
Your gay ?
You don't walk 2 miles a day ?
You like chocolate ice cream ?
Deciding as an employer who does what and when when the days done is kind of ridiculous unless you've signed an agreement with your employer that you won't smoke while employed at the firm. If this kid did that, then he doesn't have a leg to stand on, he's just wasting tax payers money.
To answer Flo's question, no they can't, they agreed not too
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Ree
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #22 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 10:02pm » |
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its just wrong.....
but I still want you all to quit...... ree
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George_J
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Re: What say you?
« Reply #23 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 10:30pm » |
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Well, I say I'm not buying any Scott/Miracle-Gro products. That's still MY right. Perhaps others will feel the same way.
There are already a couple of major retailers I won't purchase anything from because of their policies toward their employees.
Starve 'em 'till they squeal like piglets.
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Ah! The foreigners put on such airs
Wearing the tangerine suits
And their harlequin eyes.
The pain they inspire
Draws in harmonica melodies
And the feathers of birds
Which flame up at their touch.
It all comes to light in the sheer
Debonair.
(Ellen)
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chewy
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Quote:signed an agreement with your employer that you won't smoke while employed at the firm
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The company says he did. But they cant produce it.
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