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cootie
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Live and let..........................
« on: Aug 31st, 2006, 1:39pm » |
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Die ??? I just got slammed with all this the past two days and am at a losss what to do.......I mean this is ALL BRAND NEW to me. I'll try and keep it simple and any advice or expirience with this type matter willhelp me tramendously ! Dad is in the hospital cuz of a gallbladder attack......"he" told me his doc order'd a blood test and results of sum sort of emzymes were off so he sent him to the hospital. And he told me they didn't tell him shit and no mention of gall stones and he wants to go home NOW !! He said he is FINE and never been sick or anything. Real story.......he had anuther BAD attack and has been in agony for quite sum time now and was rushed to the ER.....he's been haveing attacks of throwing up and constipation and back pain and the family also told me his skin is real yellow. He had jaundice as a kid and when him and mom devorced I found out he was an alkie and he got worse after that and they said he has serosus (spelling ?).....he got real dark back then but quite drinkin and moved back to Kentucky with family around the past 10 yrs. Family also told me that he also has a tube down his throat in the hospital cuz of bleeding in his stomach and they said they fear he has bloodclots in his legs and they THINK lungs for sum reason. He has that huge aneurysm on his heart too that is a size '4' I think they said cuz they go my size for siriousness. The nurse called me today cuz he wants to go home and took all the IV's and tubes out and is refuseing treatments or more testing......she said a social working is goin to call me cuz the one brother says I need to get power of attorney and keep him in the hospital to force tests and gall bladder removeal and other stuff checked out. The nurse told me she thought the COULD remove the gall bladder ok even with the aneurysm risk. He sounded a 'bit' slow on the phone but he still sounded OK and not imcompedent. He did lie to me about the gall stones sayin he has none then slipped sayin he has had them for 17 years and no attacks since so why worry. Huh ? He was on pain meds for back pain briefly but said the wierd blood test results were caused by the med only and nothing wrong with him. (oh good grief). No mention of his other serious attacks bein rushed to the ER or blood clot ordea or lung and leg stuff or jaundice. How can I block him from goin home and force him to be treated......is that rite ?? If he wants to live out his life AS IS is it rite to stop sumone ? The family that lives next door said he is no burden and he doesn't bother them so at least I know he CAN and HAS done fine so far careing for himself and drives too. He needs knee replacements but said NO to that but heard the docs didn't wanna do it cuz of the aneurysm. The family is worried he will have more attacks at nite or the other stuff turn worse when he is alone tho. But would it be rite I not seen him for a few years and PEG HIM incompedent....gotta get power of attorney thru a court and all that jazz too. He sounded ok to me and jus wanted to get out of there...but yeah he is still lieing to me about STUFF for sure. If forced to do tests and surgeries he would fight them like crazy and probly sneak out on his own.......and hear the way he's made it sound he is SO healthy Pam
He's in Kentucky by the way.....I'm up in Ohio and NOT an avid driver by a long shot. Guess I didn't keep it SIMPLE ENUFF but thanks for listenin......... 
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| « Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2006, 1:42pm by cootie » |
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alchemy
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #1 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 2:04pm » |
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sorry about all that shit Pam. I wish I knew what to tell you. Issues with family in the hospital is a touchy issue. When my grandfather had his last stroke and was in terrible shape. He had been raised catholic and the priest came in and gave him his last rights. they then put him in a coma and then brought him out. the last thing he had seen was the priest and here he was alive. It flipped him out so bad they put him back in a coma. I talked to my grandmother to just let him go with dignity. It was done and I was the not a very nice person in the family who wanted him dead. There's no winning or losing in these situations. Let the person keep they're dignity no matter what the cost. It's they're lives not ours.
my dumb 2cents
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cootie
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #2 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 2:17pm » |
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Thanks for the input....it REALLY does mean alot to me....I never ever been in this sort of pardicament....and can't beleive the family decided to let me be the ENFORCER when I am not even aware of his condtitions cuz he never told me a thing !! Dunno why he lies to me so much about EVERYTHING.......we were real close till he started drinking YEARS ago then quit and moved away. I haven't called any of them back yet and left them all HANGING......includeing the nurse that has to release him. He's probly hitch hikein down the highway as we speak Pam
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tanner
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #3 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 2:17pm » |
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Pam darlin, clear as a bell 
excuse me one second while I yell.......FLO
OK, now the bottom line as I see it is the answer to your own question!
IS HE COMPETANT TO MAKE HIS OWN DECISIONS?
If the answer is yes then that really is the end of the story as far as I am concerned! cases like your Dad's are why it is real important for everyone to have a living will or a medical power of attorney or some other legal device in place to let the Medical world and our families know what our wishes are regarding operations and life saving procedures if we reach a point where we can't express ourselves.
I for one would find a way to escape if I was deemed incompetant by family members and forced to have procedures done that I did not want, and I would then make it rain shit!
This is such a tough call Pam cuz it really does boil down to;
CAN HE MAKE HIS OWN DECISIONS being of sound mind.
You can't tell someone what their quality of life should be!
You can't make someone take extreme measures or any measures for that matter to extend their lives if they don't want to!
You can stop someone from committing suicide but my personal feelings on that are a bit convoluted as I am sure many Clusterheads are so I won't go there.
I'm sorry if I am not being terribly helpful (see yell above), but I am trying with what limited info I have.
big hugs to you .....Tim
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sandie99
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #4 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 2:20pm » |
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Pam... 
Sanna
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Redd
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #5 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 2:22pm » |
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I agree with Tim, Pam...
I HAD power of attorney over my Mother, JUST FOR THIS REASON. She didn't want certain life sustaining methods used, and she lost her ability to make these decisions 4 years after we signed the paperwork. If he has not been deemed incompitant, he's the director of his fate.
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cootie
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #6 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 2:26pm » |
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Well he sounded FINE on the phone in his room.....he did seem pissed off the others didn't call him and see if he was ready to come home that RUSHED him there. (he doesn't know I know that part either) He is acting as if he went to the hospital for a simple blood test and they STUCK him in a room and started preforming tests against his will until he fineally said STOP !! And him say he has never been SICK to worry is a lie he doesn't know I know.....so with all that I can see he is SUMWHAT 'wacked' but then maybe he is denying it all cuz he doesn't WANT to get fixed and got concern'd at how MANY tests they were tryin to do and for SO MANY THINGS. They found A NUMBER of serious ailements...I think they overwhelmed it with it all. But he is also not faceing the facts.....but is it ok for a family memeber like ME to let him do his own thing when I know alot of this stuff may and probly will kill him.....maybe even soon ? I am tryin to sort all that out before I call anyone else back in the family includeing the nurse. Your comments are HELPING Pam
Thank you very much !!!!!!!!!
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rickyshot
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #7 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 2:27pm » |
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I agree with Tim here. You might want to check with your local hospital's ethics committee for more info so you can make a good decision. Also speak with an attorney who deals with these type of cases. In the end it is your father's decision him being of sound mind. I am sorry that it went that way for you in life. My kids had to deal with a drug addicted father all their lives. He is now in rehab and doing the best he has ever done but you know how these things could go with addicts.
Being that your family made you the spokes person so to speak do what you feel is best after consulting with the above resources and your dad. No praise, no blame in situations like this. You are not God and we are not asking you to be HIM. I feel for you GF.
That is why I have a living will.
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Margi
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #8 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 2:46pm » |
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aw, Pam, I feel for you, I honestly do. I'm in a similar situation with my dad here as well - long story, estranged from him for a number of years because of alcholism (he's a dry drunk now) and only visits in the last 20 years have been at arms' length. He's now been diagnosed with leukemia and has been given 3, maybe 4 more years at the most. All emotional crap aside, I am his only child and his only caregiver. He lives alone and doesn't drive - he lives 90 minutes south of me, so it's been a number of trips to the doctor lately. Anyway - he's 78, stubborn as a bull, determined that there is nothing wrong with him. Has told me he will refuse chemo (which I don't necessarily disagree with but that's a whole other issue). Doesn't want any treatment, no more tests, won't quit smoking, screw whatEVER the doctors say. I think he's a lot more ill than he's letting on but, like others have said here - it does come down to dignity at the end of the day.
I asked him if he's ready for all that lies ahead of him, if he feels that he's 'right with the world' if this does mean that he's going to die. Yes, he said he feels right with God, that he's had a good life and that he's ready to go when his number is called. That's when I stopped pushing him for more exploratory testing. It's his choice, not mine. Pride has to play a role here and I have to respect it.
As to competency, Pam...that's such a tough call. I think you really need to lay eyes on your dad to make that call. I know you don't want to drive there, but...can ya fly or take a bus, maybe? Sounds like it might be worthwhile at this point. It would definitely help you to put your mind at ease. Just a thought.
I'd just like to add too...when the hell did this happen? When did we reach the age that we suddenly become our parents' parents? It's hard, honey - like I said, I feel for you.
Hugs
Margi
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TxBasslady
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #9 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 3:11pm » |
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I agree with Tim and Margi.
From experience I can tell you that no matter what anyone else thinks or feels, if he is competent to make his own decisions, then let it be.
My Mom died at the age of 89....survived the death of my Dad....took care of her herself....lived alone. She asked us kids to let her stay in her home as long as she felt she could. She was there till she died.
When dealing with parents....we have to remember that their choices, while me may not agree, are theirs to make.
Bless your heart....I sure hope all works out to the good, sweetie.
Lots of love to you, 
Jean
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cootie
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #10 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 4:23pm » |
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Thanks again guys......I think they wanted me to get busy with this power of attorney business as of YESTURDAY .......his nurse wasn't available a bit ago when I called back but the other one said the hospital along with his doctor were gettin paper work ready for him to sign to leave. But I know the family was HOPEIN I'd block that........my cousin told me a bit ago he is a very sick man !?? Why hasn't he told me any of this.....sure makes it hard for me to judge. I don't hear from him that much......but he's not been honest with me in the least about his health but he acts like everyone else is MAKEING stuff up......as if he doesn't believe anyone. Is that dillusional thinking Pam
I can't really get down there rite now at all.......too much goin on here and too many pets and all to worry about or leave.
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ClusterChuck
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #11 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 9:15pm » |
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You are too busy to go see him?? Hmmm ... I'll leave that one alone, as I don't know the full story ...
BUT, The only way I can see this being settled, in your mind, IS to see him in person. Then decide if he is competent. If he is, as much as it may hurt, let him call the shots. It IS his life, and HIS body. For whatever reason (and it sounds like he will never tell you the true reason) he does not want to be treated. It is unfortunate, if treatment CAN extend his quantity and quality of life, but it is HIS decision to make.
You are in a tough spot, but if he is competent, you have to back off, tell the family and medical profession to back off, and just be there (not physically) for him to rely on. Let him know that you will support his decision.
Best of luck, hun ...
Chuck
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cootie
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #12 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 10:54pm » |
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No I'm not 'too busy'......I just can't leave.......he was taken to one hospital then transfer'd to anouther farther away cuz of his condition he now says he never had......arghhhh. I couldn't jump in the truck and get there and they needed sumone to talk him into stayin at the hospital NOW or get an order NOW. He lives with family.....so he is in good hands. But they needed someone closest to try and MAKE him have the tests and surgery and have some sort of legal hold. So at the last minute they got ahold of me. He doesn't want me to know ANYTHING about his health and never has nor will he admit he has any sort of problems or illness. He denied the fact that he had serious cirrhosis when he almost died twice from it. I guess ever since his bad drinkin days things have changed......those were bad days that left a mark but nothing I figure he even remembers. So now he is home......after his hospital hostage ordea he is lesser for the wear and not even admitting he had a thing wrong with him to of been there. He was taken to the ER in pain and very sick. How can you deny or forget that Pam
It's all water under the bridge now 'till next time'.....talked to the nurse again and she said he has HORRIBLE color and serious liver condition and now that he is treated for the gall bladder attack and better he feels safe and sound......but she said he WILL be back and it WILL be soon. She said he is a very sick man.....but he argued with me he is fine and not been sick in a long long time ? I would love to see him but at the same time I am relieved I don't have to look him in the face as he tells me more 'stories'. Kinda hurts esp when ya know ya have to go along with it.....no winners here.
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #13 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 11:06pm » |
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Pam, I think that in my own inane way I managed to say everything I needed to except...
your never alone with a bunch of swingers like us...tim
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DonnaHar
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #14 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 11:42pm » |
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Cootie...I'm sorry that you were put into such a position as to be expected to make such long distance decisions...not fair at all.
Sounds like your dad is a very, very sick man. Each one of his complaints is serious in itself. When an aneurysm reaches a size 4, it is near a bursting point. They usually are concidered an emergency. I would think that his doctor explained all of this to him, and like everyone else said, I also think that it is his choice as long as he is competant. It is just very sad that he will not accept medical help. They might be able to make him a little more comfortable and help him be less secretive.
If your dad signed any paperwork while sedated, it is null and void. If he left "AMA" (against medical advice), his insurance will not cover any part of his care in the hospital for this visit.
Look for a PM.
Love and prayers for you and your family,
Donna
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Ree
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #15 on: Aug 31st, 2006, 11:55pm » |
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Hi Pam well you know about the year I had last year with losing both of my parents. The hospital, the nurses and docs making all the decisions.... I say let him decide while he still has the will and the words... My dad once on the vent couldnt, and that always bothered me. Then they went for my emotions.... I still say DAD would have stuck it out. I hate that you have to go through this..... Let him decide because once they get their mits on him and get him hooked up... it will be very very hard to get him unhooked.....
love ya ~~~sorry for your troubles..... ree
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cootie
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #16 on: Sep 1st, 2006, 10:57am » |
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Thanks once again guys........shit.....did I mention I heard his aneurysm is a 4........that's what he supposidly told my cousin's husband that lives next door and helps him with stuff. So that isn't good at all. The nurse did mention twice AMA and I could NOT figure out what she ment but hated to keep asking WHAT !! Plus I could hardly hear her at times cuz of other people talkin to her at the nurses station and they have such "accents" too down there. So that means his three day stay will not be cover'd at all......cripes......wonder how he will pay for it then cuz he just has medicare or whatever. He said he has lousey ins but I bet his pays more then ours would. He said he can even get scripts for 2 bucks......not me !! He says he is not on ANY meds and kept sayin that......he supposidly has real high blood pressure so thought he was on stuff for that. Oh well.....I dunno WHAT to believe anymore. But like I said he is at home LESS for the wear then everyone else and probly acting like nothing happend and sayin he was never even sick. Figure maybe him and his brother had a fallin out that keeps goin to get him in the middle of the nite with attacks to the ER or when he is sick. He'll probly say he is not payin the bills cuz there not his Pam 
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| « Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2006, 10:59am by cootie » |
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Margi
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #17 on: Sep 1st, 2006, 11:25am » |
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on Sep 1st, 2006, 10:57am, cootie wrote:| Oh well.....I dunno WHAT to believe anymore. |
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Pam, the only thing you CAN believe is that he is doing this HIS way, the only way he knows how. He has the right to do that. The biggest gift and help you can give him right now is to support him in his choices. He knows how sick he is and, although he's probably scared as hell, he's dealing with it in his own way. He's shown you that the only thing you CAN do is to be there, supportively, for him. He doesn't want you making his decisions for him and you have to respect that. He's your parent and it's his nature to take care of YOU, not you take care of him. He's shielding you and, honey, you gotta let him.
This will turn out as it's meant to and, honestly, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. This is the hand he's been dealt, Pam, and he's going to play it out - you can't do it for him.
Some things you just gotta let go and let God.
hugs and love,
Margi
and...p.s....I TOTALLY understand you not being able to go there to him. I hear you on a deep level on that one. Don't beat yourself up about this, ok? About any of it.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2006, 11:28am by Margi » |
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HappyElaine
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #18 on: Sep 1st, 2006, 12:06pm » |
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Pam I am so sorry you have to go through this.
You know I had to watch my Dad die and matters were in my Mothers hands. He was in and out of the hospital and Mom did the best she could to keep him with her.
They talked Mom into putting Dad in a feeding tube. It kept him with her another two months, but he wanted food, he wanted a coke, a cookie. In the end he died the same way he would have had he not had the feeding tube gasbing for air. The feeding tube haunts my mother to this day. She said if she could redo it she would. I say let him live out his days the way he want to.
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cootie
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #19 on: Sep 1st, 2006, 12:30pm » |
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I'm so glad I got you guys to talk to or ask questions about things like this and your expiriences and thoughts and knowledge. I actually came HERE before I got back to my relatives or the nurses......how's THAT for respect and trust !! Ya's really helped me thru it......it was such a shock to get calls from relatives I never ever even met that I DO SUMTHING with my dad and do it NOW !! There a real careing bunch too and take good care of him and even gave him a apt to live next door to there families after his second BAD devorce. Anyhow........am GLAD I didn't jump the gun and try to get him HELD up at the hospital like they wanted......he'd of freaked and hated me and probly killed himself FIGHTING them off and getting stressed. I dunno WHY he didn't get this aneurysm fixed years ago.....then his knees and now his gallbladder. And if I ask him he will deny anything is wrong with them. I know his knees bother him tho. He is a 'train' with smokeing too. Not sure who will get stuck with his medical bills.....that bothers me......he could of waited to be released one way or the other verses pull up and LEAVE and ins paid for his bill or most of it. Complicated dad Pam
I've saved animals and watched them SUFFER.....and then got upset with myself if I did the rite thing. Could't handle THAT with a parent !!! I am weak at heart.
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DonnaHar
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Re: Live and let..........................
« Reply #20 on: Sep 1st, 2006, 1:37pm » |
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Pam......if nobody signed him in and assumed the responsibility of paying his medical bills, than he is the only one responsible. Nobody can touch his family for his bills.
Donna
I'd better edit to say that the above is true in Florida. Better check out your own states' laws about this.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2006, 1:53pm by DonnaHar » |
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