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Topic: “Rights” of (for) terrorists (Read 1697 times) |
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wildhaus
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“Rights” of (for) terrorists
« on: Aug 19th, 2006, 2:23am » |
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In the war against terror, one needs to go to the extreme, as the terror organizations use
methods that, at times are fare beyond the extreme.
I do not understand all the people criticizing the so called “abuse” of power and defending “rights” of terrorists, in the war against terror. In a war without rules, the fight against it has to, at times; go to the extreme, and into the gray area of the law, or at times, beyond that line…..
The terror has no laws…. and dose not recognizes the rights of others…. therefore the man
fighting them have to; at times play by the rules set by the terror groups….. and this turf is lawless!
It’s not just a USA problem, or issue, its global matter, and the ones fighting the terror have to
fight on two (2) fronts, one is the terror, and the other are the people calling them self, the guards of rights and low….. I just wonder what rights? what low? and there are other numerous groups that put obstacles and criticize.
What angers even more, is that when the terror dose get to hurt, then the ones that put obstacles and criticize the way the man are fighting the war, are on the front line, critesaizing
the INCOMPITENS of the people on the front line, fighting the terror!
Never the less, there should be controlling and monitoring of the mechanism fighting terror,
by a “body” set for it! that knows and understands the needs of the units fighting the war!
So there will be no abuse for personal gain or criminal abuse aginst innocent people
trough personal interest and for personal gain.
Michael
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zwibbs/Scott
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #2 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 4:29am » |
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Michael, The US--CIA used to have all sorts of people in their operation. Alot of them were undesirables--low lives , scum bags, all sorts of bad people in different countries. BUT they used to get inside groups in every country and terror group. In the 90's President Clinton decided we should not continue to hire these type people----somehow the terror groups knew this and that is when all the nonsense started. We had two attacks on the World Trade Center--and still didn't pursue the correct issue. Case in point---President Reagan used these low figures in the CIA to find the two terrorists who killed a US Citizen on the Cruise Ship...These cia informants told us that the two terrorists were in Egypt....Reagan asked Mubarek if this was true.......Mubarek was upset and said he would never hide such people......The informants insisted they were there, in Egypt----even gave a flight--an Air Egypt flight that they were boarding.....Reagan believed the informants, and when the Air Egypt flight took off---minutes later it was surrounded by US Navy Fighters who sent a message of........." Take it down, or we shoot you down !" That was the right way to fight these bastards, and it made alot of Americans proud to be American. Reagan did it---all because of the correct people in the CIA !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Paul98
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #3 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 8:49am » |
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Very well put Michael! The constraints the "do-gooders" want only help the terrorists.
Scott, the sanitizing of our intelligence operations started with Carter passing the laws forbidding assisination of forign heads of state. (result of Kennedy and Fidel.) Clinton took this to a new extreem. No low lifes were to be used in intelligence operations. Clinton also blinded intelligence by passing a law that made it illegal to share info between the FBI, Secret Service and the CIA. This law was to prevent discovery of what was going on in the White House. It was about the time he transfered oversite of missle tech. from the State Dep. to the Commerce Dep. This was to facilitate selling the technology to China in a round-a-bout way. China was going to launch a satellite for us. Their guidance systems sucked. Ours was cutting edge. When Clinton transfered oversight to Commerce, it enabled China access to reverse engineer our guidance systems. (State had manned watch over the satellite 24/7 until after launch, Commerce did not) In return for this shuffle, Clinton received political donations which were traced back to the Peoples Army. China lept forward ~10-15 years with Clinton's help.
-P.
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zwibbs/Scott
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #4 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 8:57am » |
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Paul , You're right !!!! I just tried to simplify it. The woman on Clinton's team that did all that --sat in on the 911 hearings !?!?!?! I couldn't believe it.
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Paul98
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #5 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 9:08am » |
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on Aug 19th, 2006, 8:57am, zwibbs/Scott wrote:| Paul , You're right !!!! I just tried to simplify it. The woman on Clinton's team that did all that --sat in on the 911 hearings !?!?!?! I couldn't believe it. |
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Yup, it's was his ace in the hole to be sure blame for 9/11 was deflected off him. Don't even get me started on the N. Korea/Albright, Clinton deal with their nuke program. Sure, we can trust Kim Jong. 
-P.
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nani
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #6 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 10:18am » |
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Um, excuse me...
"rights" are there to protect the innocent.
I'm not going to engage in the political discussion here, but in a democracy, people have rights. This war on terror, and feeding all of you all this fear, has been a way for the administration to trample the rights of all of us...not just suspected (keyword) terrorists.
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purpleydog
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #7 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 11:03am » |
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on Aug 19th, 2006, 8:49am, Paul98 wrote:
the sanitizing of our intelligence operations started with Carter passing the laws forbidding assisination of forign heads of state. (result of Kennedy and Fidel.) Clinton took this to a new extreem. No low lifes were to be used in intelligence operations. Clinton also blinded intelligence by passing a law that made it illegal to share info between the FBI, Secret Service and the CIA.
-P.
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What is annouced to the public and what is really happening in the intelligence agencies are two different things. The "laws" that were passed were an attempt to ease the minds of the general public, IMO. Do you REALLY think the CIA, FBI, NSA, etc., are following those laws?
I mean, c'mon... they do what they want, whatever it takes to gather intelligence, and to dispose of anyone that can be a "problem" to our national security. And as far as those "lowlifes", they may look the part, but you can be damn sure they weren't recruited just for their looks. It takes a brain to go undercover, the image you put forth is a plus to get you in. Works the same way with any police dept undercover officer getting intel on drug dealers, or the FBI infiltrating the mafia.
The laws were announced to satisfy the public. But, you can be sure nothing has changed. Those agencies don't follow the law. They do whatever they have to, and they don't communicate it to the president. Only the final result, such as, these terrorists are in this place, right now. They don't tell him how they found out, or who got killed in the process.
Then the pres gets to make a decision. WOW. Funny, when most of them have already been made up to that point. It's all about appearances. Anyone want to go undercover in the mideast? I know my lilly-white ass would fit in perfectly.
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wildhaus
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #8 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 12:37pm » |
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To you Nani (and all Americans)…… it’s not about the American politics (I am not an American, and will never
attempt to involve my self in it! its non of my business) the terror is a GLOBAL problem, even in the country I am living in – Switzerland……and therefore my post is just the way I see terrorism and the war against it!…. and not about the American political environment!
To you Invanov: It works both ways…. you can present in the media a documentary and claim you possess all the necessary information, pro or con. and it may be the truth, it’s all the
information one has, and yet some of the information is not available, as it could be that the source of this information is in harms way….. and revealing this information could jeopardise, or even compromise the source… or just simply not available, as the nature of war is that some of the information is not available to the public! so any kind of media info is to be very carefully used as a “know it all”!
The free world has the right to live in peace, and I would love to get on a plane, without having to even think, some terrorist might carry his war over my back, or for that matter any other passenger on that plane!
I do not care if the war is rightful or not, but killing blindly innocent people is plainly wrong!
And therefore the “war” against terrorism is a venue we are forced to go, like it or not.
And listening to one of the religious leaders in London today, preaching to the western world, it’s traditions and way of life are to be condemned and if necessary fought against with force….. and that I call terror!
I like the freedom and prosperity, and the right to be free, and no way i’ll let any one take it
away….. and therefore the “war” against terror is just and necesity, sickening as it may sound!
ITS NOT ABOUT POLITICS, ITS ABOUT PRESERVING OUR WAY OF LIFE!!
To you Nani…… it’s not about the American politics (I am not an American, and will never
attempt to involve my self in it! its non of my business) the terror is a GLOBAL problem, even in the country I am living in – Switzerland……and therefore my post is just the way I see terrorism and the war against it!…. and not about the American political environment!
To you Invanov: It works both ways…. you can present in the media a documentary and claim you possess all the necessary information, pro or con. and it may be the truth, it’s all the
information one has, and yet some of the information is not available, as it could be that the source of this information is in harms way….. and revealing this information could jeopardise, or even compromise the source… or just simply not available, as the nature of war is that some of the information is not available to the public! so any kind of media info is to be very carefully used as a “know it all”!
The free world has the right to live in peace, and I would love to get on a plane, without having to even think, some terrorist might carry his war over my back, or for that matter any other passenger on that plane!
I do not care if the war is rightful or not, but killing blindly innocent people is plainly wrong!
And therefore the “war” against terrorism is a venue we are forced to go, like it or not.
And listening to one of the religious leaders in London today, preaching to the western world, it’s traditions and way of life are to be condemned and if necessary fought against with force….. and that I call terror!
I like the freedom and prosperity, and the right to be free, and no way i’ll let any one take it
away….. and therefore the “war” against terror is just and necesity, sickening as it may sound!
ITS NOT ABOUT POLITICS, ITS ABOUT PRESERVING OUR WAY OF LIFE!!
Michael
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Charlie
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #9 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 2:33pm » |
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George Bush had nothing to do with 9/11 of course.
Charlie
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Paul98
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #10 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 3:15pm » |
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on Aug 19th, 2006, 2:33pm, Charlie wrote:George Bush had nothing to do with 9/11 of course.
Charlie |
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Charlie, I'm a bit confused as to which George Bush you are referring to. Is it the George Bush that has systematically taken away our freedoms and shredded the US constitution and oversaw the worst attack on US soil OR The George Bush that lacks the neurological horsepower to put one foot in front of the other while chewing gum?
I couldn't resist, Charlie. 
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paulc
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #11 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 3:38pm » |
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I become very concerned when a democratic government arrests people, without charge, secretly flies them to countries which use torture to get "confessions" and does it in the guise of "protecting" the civil rights of its people. Thus far, the amount of useful information gained from this despipable practice has been virtually zero. If this is allowed to continue, then soon the US won't even bother sending these "suspects" to foreign countires to be tortured, it will be done here (saves the taxpayers money). The US didn''t do this during WWII, when we really were in danger-excepting, of course, the confinement of Janpanese Americans to concentration camps. Interestingly enough, this practice was not done to white Americans of German and Italian heritage and the Niesi (sp?) brigade, composed of Japanese Americans, was the most highly decorated brigade in the US Army's history and it was composed of Japanese American volunteers...the same was true of the Tuskegee Airmen, the all Black fighter sqadron, another group of Americans who were discriminated against because the color of their skin. History repeats itself, except this time I do believe that the goal of the Republican Party is really to do away with Americans' Constitutional Rights (all in the name of protecting them). It is a frightening and sad situation.
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Jonny
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrori
« Reply #12 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 3:44pm » |
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on Aug 19th, 2006, 3:38pm, paulc wrote:| Thus far, the amount of useful information gained from this despipable practice has been virtually zero. |
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Oh Please!!!!, tell us how you know this?
Where do you get your facts?
Please, please tell us!!
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zwibbs/Scott
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #13 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 3:56pm » |
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on Aug 19th, 2006, 3:38pm, paulc wrote:| I become very concerned when a democratic government arrests people, without charge, secretly flies them to countries which use torture to get "confessions" and does it in the guise of "protecting" the civil rights of its people. Thus far, the amount of useful information gained from this despipable practice has been virtually zero. If this is allowed to continue, then soon the US won't even bother sending these "suspects" to foreign countires to be tortured, it will be done here (saves the taxpayers money). The US didn''t do this during WWII, when we really were in danger-excepting, of course, the confinement of Janpanese Americans to concentration camps. Interestingly enough, this practice was not done to white Americans of German and Italian heritage and the Niesi (sp?) brigade, composed of Japanese Americans, was the most highly decorated brigade in the US Army's history and it was composed of Japanese American volunteers...the same was true of the Tuskegee Airmen, the all Black fighter sqadron, another group of Americans who were discriminated against because the color of their skin. History repeats itself, except this time I do believe that the goal of the Republican Party is really to do away with Americans' Constitutional Rights (all in the name of protecting them). It is a frightening and sad situation. |
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Melissa
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #14 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 4:03pm » |
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Michael, I understand and agree with your point. Unfortunately, there is no way to talk about such a subject here without it turning into a political debate, as you can see. 
sorry hon
 mel
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paulc
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #15 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 4:05pm » |
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I was quite awake when I wrote my post and the facts came from CNN, The NY Times, The BBC and other news organizations. I'm sure that you will dismiss them all as left wing. Perhaps, if you haven't already, read George Orwell's "1984". You can easily check out my facts, just go on Google, unless, in your fantasies, they have become inflitrated by Osama and Co. and unemployed Communists.
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LeLimey
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #16 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 4:13pm » |
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1984 wasn't broadcast by the BBC Paul, that was an ITV mini series if I remember rightly
Hope that helps
Helen
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Tom K
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #17 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 4:46pm » |
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I have to agree with PaulC. We need to get off the backs of these freindly people that we are mislabeling terrorist. We should just wait until the evil doer's show themselves and then wring our hands over it and hope they don't hurt innocent people.  It's not our fault that they have no more than a 1st grade education and that they truely belief that their saviour will not return until all the infidels have been executed. We just need to understand that the freedom that we all enjoy goes against everything they belief and that we really are the bad people of the world. George Bush has personally pissed in their Cherrios, raped their fields and pillaged their women.
Like I said before, it's the 2 or 3 million bad apples that spoil the bunch...we just need to have more understanding....
BLECH...get over yourselves people! There is no reasoning with these groups. They would rather kill you than look at you. Until someone in the media or in Hollywood actually has someone get killed by one of the terrorist, there isn't going to be anything done about it and it will be handled as George Bush being the evil that is prolonging this. Since everyone loves to toss up the Geneva Convention how about this...where does it state, in the GC, that it is allowed to cut the head off of a prisoner? Does this act of beheading equal to making a butt crack piramid like Abu Grab? If you think that those two acts are equal than you really need to think again. Yes, the piramid of butt crack was over the top, but at least they still have their heads and their lives. Ask any of the family memebers who had their loved one's beheaded if they think the two are equal...
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Jonny
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Re: “Rights” of (for) te
« Reply #18 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 4:51pm » |
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FUCKENEH TOM!!!!!
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wildhaus
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #19 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 5:07pm » |
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Paulc….to you as a Dutch (going by the flag next to your name), what right do you have to go
all over the Americans? and there domestic politics? you are NOT an American, and there for never attempt to involve your self in it! it’s none of your business! you don’t pay for it nor do you have to elect there representatives!
And as most Europeans you would not like the Americans telling you how to run the Dutch government and politics….. you would call it imperialism….
sorry I am so rude…… but I had to say it….
to all … have a very nice week end
Michael
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrori
« Reply #20 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 6:18pm » |
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on Aug 19th, 2006, 5:07pm, wildhaus wrote:Paulc….to you as a Dutch (going by the flag next to your name), what right do you have to go
all over the Americans? and there domestic politics? you are NOT an American, and there for never attempt to involve your self in it! it’s none of your business! you don’t pay for it nor do you have to elect there representatives!
And as most Europeans you would not like the Americans telling you how to run the Dutch government and politics….. you would call it imperialism….
sorry I am so rude…… but I had to say it….
to all … have a very nice week end
Michael
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Your not rude, Michael!
Your a stand up guy!!!!
Thank you for your input and this thread, my brother!!
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Tom K
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrori
« Reply #21 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 6:34pm » |
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on Aug 19th, 2006, 6:18pm, Jonny wrote:
Your not rude, Michael!
Your a stand up guy!!!!
Thank you for your input and this thread, my brother!!
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X2! If someone calls you rude for voicing your opinion, then they are the one who is small minded. Voice on!!
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purpleydog
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #22 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 6:58pm » |
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on Aug 19th, 2006, 4:05pm, paulc wrote:| I was quite awake when I wrote my post and the facts came from CNN, The NY Times, The BBC and other news organizations. I'm sure that you will dismiss them all as left wing. Perhaps, if you haven't already, read George Orwell's "1984". You can easily check out my facts, just go on Google, unless, in your fantasies, they have become inflitrated by Osama and Co. and unemployed Communists. |
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If you believe anything any "news" organization has to say about what the "facts" are, then you have some more thinking to do. What makes you think they know anything? All they do is put a nice little spin on the words to make us all think (depending on their point of view, left or right) that nothing is being gotten from any prisoners.
If we take suspected terrorists to another country to have them enjoy the local hospitality, and we get info, you can be damned sure you won't know what info is gotten. Unless YOU are the one doing the interrogating. And whatever info you do get, do you think you are going to release it to the fucking news organizations? That would just help all the other terrorists in the world. Boy, that makes a hell of a lot of sense.
And as far as torture goes, what happens in prison happens. You can be sure that the mideast is not the only one doing any torturing of prisoners. What about the vietnam prisoners of war? Don't tell me they weren't tortured. If you're going to play the game, you're in for the whole thing.
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paulc
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrorists
« Reply #23 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 7:42pm » |
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on Aug 19th, 2006, 4:13pm, LeLimey wrote:1984 wasn't broadcast by the BBC Paul, that was an ITV mini series if I remember rightly
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"1984" is a book, Helen, written by George Orwell in the late 40's or early 50's. It is an excellent book and I think that you would find it very interesting and in many ways prophetic. It was made into a movie and may have been an ITV mini-series, but to get the full effect do read the book. Thanks for taking the time to write.
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Jonny
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Re: “Rights” of (for) terrori
« Reply #24 on: Aug 19th, 2006, 7:58pm » |
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on Aug 19th, 2006, 4:05pm, paulc wrote:| I was quite awake when I wrote my post . |
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