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Topic: To burn or not to burn? (Read 503 times) |
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Jonny
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To burn or not to burn?
« on: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:14pm » |
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http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1208509,00.html
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chewy
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #1 on: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:19pm » |
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I'm allfor freedom of speech and expression but this is where I draw a line.
We have no laws pertaining to how we conduct ourselves with the flag, only guidelines. That has to change.
Burning or desecrating our flag is offensive and a slap in the face to anyone who has fought for it and for those who have died for the principles that the flag stands for.
The oxymoron is one of those principles is freedom of expression.
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alchemy
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get out of my head
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #2 on: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:21pm » |
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do not burn the flag thats fucked up.
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maffumatt
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #3 on: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:35pm » |
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I saw some clips of those against it. They were very passionate about peoples right to burn it. But hey, you have to stand up for what you believe in right? BTW Jonny, have you bought Ted Kennedy's childrens book yet? If not I will buy one for you as a gift. I know how much you like and admire your local senator.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:36pm by Mattchew » |
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Charlie
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #4 on: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:44pm » |
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Senator McConnell took the words out of my mouth.
Flag desecration is rare here, very very rare...something like half a dozen instances per year. If indeed you make it a federal offense, much less waste many millions that could be better spent elsewhere, rather than promoting this misguided ammendment, there will be 100s, if not more burnings in protest or by dumb kids that don't understand how the real world operates. People will get hurt. It's only real effect will be to put in jail people not a real danger to the country, make life harder for children of violators and waste tremendous about of law enforcement's time and money better used to fight real crime.
Mistaken arrests and unnecessary violence will certainly be a result as well. This is a traditional conservative outlook and probably a Libertarian position. I miss that wing of the GOP.
The more law, the less freedom. Not bright.
Charlie
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unsolved1
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #5 on: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:45pm » |
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I think we should burn more foriegn flags here in the states 
UNsolved
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Sean_C
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #6 on: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:49pm » |
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I've never witnessed someone burning the flag, not sure I could hold myself back from doing something I'd regret later.
The thought of somebody doing that definately bothers me.
Sean..............................
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| « Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:52pm by Sean_C » |
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Jonny
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #7 on: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:50pm » |
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on Jun 27th, 2006, 9:35pm, maffumatt wrote:| BTW Jonny, have you bought Ted Kennedy's childrens book yet? If not I will buy one for you as a gift. I know how much you like and admire your local senator. |
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You an idiot or just trying to be funny, Matt?....cant tell.
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
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chewy
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #8 on: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:51pm » |
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Quote:| I think we should burn more foriegn flags here in the states |
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Oh boy. Now ya did it.
Ding! Ding!
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Charlie
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #9 on: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:53pm » |
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It's like bin Laden. Mostly, he made life exceedingly harder on Muslins and people that look like them. Treating idiots as criminals over something like desecration will backfire and is nearly as dumb.
Charlie
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There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
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maffumatt
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #10 on: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:57pm » |
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on Jun 27th, 2006, 9:50pm, Jonny wrote:
If you can't tell by now I think I should just stfu.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2006, 9:58pm by Mattchew » |
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floridian
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #11 on: Jun 27th, 2006, 10:35pm » |
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I think somebody is desperate for a hot button issue so they can take the moral high ground without adressing any real issues. Last week they tried for a constitutional ban on gay marriage. This week a constitutional ban on flag burning.
The founding fathers gave us the Bill of Rights. The current lot wants a bill of limitations.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2006, 10:42pm by floridian » |
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #12 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 12:02am » |
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Flo, I have to respectfully disagree with you.
The current lot wants buzzword emotional issues front and center so they can rally the base. They want to deflect any attention from pertinent issues and focus it on wedge issues.
Its a fuckin shame.
I personally think that burning the american flag in the USA means you dont like it here. If you dont like it here THAT much, get the fuck out.
I dont even let my daughter have any or play with any flags because she may drop it on the ground.
Thats justs me though.
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Richr8
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #13 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 1:20am » |
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on Jun 27th, 2006, 9:21pm, alchemy wrote:| do not burn the flag thats fucked up. |
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Yeah, what he said.
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Paul98
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #14 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 6:14am » |
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I thought burning the flag was the traditional way to dispose of them after they are old and tattered. I guess it is the way you burn them that counts.
Stomping on a burning US flag in the street isn't wright. Sitting on the US flag when it's sewn on your arse isn't wright either.
$0.02, -P.
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BarbaraD
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #16 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 7:08am » |
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My opinion of this is -- (I'm old - I have an opinion on everything) - we've taken EDUCATION out of our schools and our kids have grown up without the "values" to respect the flag. They have no idea of the proper respect that should be shown for it.
When I was in school, we all rallied around the flag pole in the morning for the raising of it (it wasn't left out overnight like people do today). When it rained - it came down (with ceremony).
But to change the constitution is ridiculous. It didn't work with alcohol and it won't work here.
We're losing our freedoms one by one. Get out and VOTE and get these people OUT of office and get some in that will do the PEOPLE's will. That's the only solution. Too many career politicians in Washington.
PS. If they really want to do something useful - put an amendment in there for TERM LIMITATIONS! Two terms period! They might be a little more careful what LAWS they support.
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Sandy_C
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #17 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 8:23am » |
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I don't like burning our flag in protest of something either, and I sure agree that wearing it on your body isn't right either. But, a constitutional amendment is not the appropriate way to treat the situation. Amendments to our constitution should be treated very carefully, and should be very rare occurances, used only for the good of ALL the people of this country, and should not be added if it takes away any existing RIGHTS of the people.
Sandy
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Melissa
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #18 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 8:49am » |
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This reminds me of when I was 16 years old and my mom and her cousin were out on the front porch talking about this very same thing. Both of them said it should be against the law to do it. When I came out there, my mom's cousin asked me what I thought of it. I told her that it shouldn't be against the law to do it, as it is a persons right to burn it, as long as they're not damaging someone else or their property. We got into a debate about it, but later on mom said her cousin told her how smart I was.
Sure, I may be smart, and even though it hurts me to see our flag burned, it is still not against the law, nor do I think it should be. I think too much time is wasted on issues like this when it should be turned around on our own government for all the crimes THEY commit.
my 
...mel
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seasonalboomer
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #19 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 8:59am » |
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on Jun 28th, 2006, 8:49am, Melissa wrote: I think too much time is wasted on issues like this
my
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I'm in agreement with you here. But see it as not only wasted attention, but diverted attention. Indicating intent on behalf of those who bring this debate to the forefront every so many years. I am simply more saddened by those who choose to make their statement by burning a flag (any flag) and can't feel their heart tighten up when they see a group of vets or hear stories of those who have given their life for the rest of us. Not enraged. They're simply missing the point of being here. You don't have to agree with all of it, but we're on this boat together.
Scott
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Sandy_C
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #20 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 9:55am » |
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Just heard ..Amendment failed to get two-thirds majority by one vote.
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Mattrf
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #21 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 10:43am » |
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I think the law should stay the way it is, but I also think that beating the crap out of someone for burning a flag in protest or flying one upside down should be a misdemeanor or even rewarded. But that is just me.
Matt
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floridian
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #22 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 12:55pm » |
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Alan Watts said it decades ago:
“Not long ago Congress voted, with much patriotic rhetoric, for the imposition of severe penalties upon anyone presuming to burn the flag of the United States. Yet the very Congressmen who passed this law are responsible, by acts of commission or omission, for burning, polluting, and plundering the territory that the flag is supposed to represent. Therein, they exemplified the peculiar and perhaps fatal fallacy of civilization: the confusion of symbol with reality.”
To send people off to an unecessary war is ok. Mounting debt is good. Ignoring the Constitution when it comes to searches without a warant is not a problem. And don't worry your little head when presidential signing statements and presidential waivers illegally transfer more power from Congress to the President. Symbols are what matters - It is the seven people that burned a flag last year that are the real threat to America. Keep focusing on those seven people, and the seven people that may do the same next year.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2006, 1:45pm by floridian » |
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vig
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #23 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 1:19pm » |
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I think burning a flag is downright stupid.
...but it's NOT a problem facing our nation right now and those that brought it up AGAIN know this very well.
The intent was politcal and manipulative and devisive.
We're facing a conflict in Iraq, Meth-labs, Education system, debt and immigrants and THIS is what our Republican congress wants to spend THEIR time on.
it'th dethpicable!
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| « Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2006, 2:52pm by vig » |
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Charlie
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Re: To burn or not to burn?
« Reply #24 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 4:39pm » |
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I read it again; the love it or leave it solution. The easy way out. The Beavis and Butthead answer. How glad I am that the people that started this place knew better. This was unique at the time. They set it up so you don't have to go back to see if what you are saying or writing is okay with someone. They allowed for mistakes. Today, a bunch of moralists and wishful thinkers have the mistaken idea that you can legislate perfection. You can't. Flag desecration falls into this. Leave it alone.
I read today that there were 3 instances of reported flag burning in 2005. Make it illegal and it will be 100 fold and likely much more and some reckless group or drunken kids will do it just to be stupid...as kids often do. Someone will call the police, and somewhere along the line during a fracus, innocent people will be caught in the middle. Children perhaps. It's not worth it. People have to be allowed to make mistakes. It's one of the reasons that this country exists. Flags are not immune from poor care or accidents either. Simple isn't an option if you want the country to remain a place in which you want to be.
It does make sense to me to keep people from destroying flags that are part of national monuments. You can make a case that it's destroying public property.
As was said here; this is one of those "issues" that are dragged out during elections. One column I read said it best that things like gay marriage, abortion, prayer in schools, and pledge of allegiance issues, while even if voted down or temporarily set aside are revisited and taken on a perp walk through red states with perhaps town meetings and pulpit pounding....just in time to bring out the true believers.
I fly a flag around holidays and desecration never occurred to me.
It's like abortion though, in that if you make it illegal, it makes it worse.
Charlie
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There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
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