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Topic: wmds (Read 1412 times) |
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maffumatt
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500 chemical munitions found in Iraq,
Just saw Rick Santorum's news conference. Bush wouldn't realease the information, why?
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| « Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2006, 5:44pm by Mattchew » |
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Mattrf
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Re: wmds
« Reply #1 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 5:42pm » |
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Where did you get this?
I just did a search and found nothing on it?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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maffumatt
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Just saw Rick Santorum having a news conference.
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Brew
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Re: wmds
« Reply #3 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 5:44pm » |
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Get ready for it ... They're old weapons. They don't count. Bush lied, people died. </sarc>
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maffumatt
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if they are old it just goes to show he did not live up to the UN mandates. That means he had no intention of keeping up to the cease fire agreement from the very start doesn't it?
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Jonny
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Re: wmds
« Reply #5 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 5:50pm » |
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on Jun 21st, 2006, 5:47pm, maffumatt wrote:| if they are old it just goes to show he did not live up to the UN mandates. That means he had no intention of keeping up to the cease fire agreement from the very start doesn't it? |
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Thats the way I see it!
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Brew
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Re: wmds
« Reply #6 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 5:51pm » |
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I should have been clearer - </sarc> means now turning off the sarcasm.
I can hear this one coming, too:
LIARS, there are no WMD. Sean Penn told us so.
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maffumatt
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I wonder how many news programs and newspapres will either not carry the news conference or bury it on page 10?
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Mattrf
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Re: wmds
« Reply #8 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 5:56pm » |
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Well if an actor says it, it must be true!
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Jonny
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Re: wmds
« Reply #9 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 5:57pm » |
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I wonder what time Ted will be by to tell us we just dreamed it.....LMAO 
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maffumatt
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After all the shit Bush has taken over WMDs why in the hell did Rick Santorum have to fight to get this declassified?
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floridian
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on Jun 21st, 2006, 6:04pm, maffumatt wrote:| After all the shit Bush has taken over WMDs why in the hell did Rick Santorum have to fight to get this declassified? |
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Maybe they were stamped Made in U.S.A. ??
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Jonny
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Re: wmds
« Reply #12 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 6:52pm » |
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on Jun 21st, 2006, 5:36pm, maffumatt wrote:500 chemical munitions found in Iraq,
Just saw Rick Santorum's news conference. Bush wouldn't realease the information, why? |
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Matt, just heard on the radio that it was 500 TONS of munitions.
Hope I heard that right
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Charlie
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Re: wmds
« Reply #13 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 7:07pm » |
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Looking at Santorum on CSPAN. Still catching up.
Have to wonder why Santorum got stuck with this one other than that he's getting a real challenge in his re-eleciton campaign and they assume this will help.
It seems to me that if they were found though, it's a "good" thing. Wow Santorum is bubbling over. He does that kind of thing.
Charlie
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unsolved1
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The next batch of wmds could be pointed at us now by North Korea. We think they are still fueling the missle. Once it is fueled, they have 5- 10 days to fire it or scrap it.
If it is fired and is headed this way, wouldn't the responsible thing for our government to do is to at least attemp to shoot it down ? Or should we let it fly and hope LA is still there when it's over ?
UNsolved
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Tom K
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Re: wmds
« Reply #15 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 7:58pm » |
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Ok, this is what I heard, don't rip me for it. "Bush's team didn't want to put this out there because they are sick of the WMD/No WMD fight." That is from some talking head on MSNBC. Don't know what to think other than if this stuff starts popping up, it can only be a good thing for all of us, since maybe he, Saddam, didn't seed a bunch of it to Syria as suspected. Discuss
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mynm156
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Re: wmds
« Reply #16 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 8:26pm » |
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IRAQ is Old News. Yes People are still dying but I am worried about North Korea! They are going to cause some TROUBLE you watch!
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floridian
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on Jun 21st, 2006, 7:58pm, Tom K wrote:| Ok, this is what I heard, don't rip me for it. "Bush's team didn't want to put this out there because they are sick of the WMD/No WMD fight." That is from some talking head on MSNBC. Don't know what to think other than if this stuff starts popping up, it can only be a good thing for all of us, since maybe he, Saddam, didn't seed a bunch of it to Syria as suspected. Discuss |
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I don't agree with the MSNBC person - if they had clear-cut proof, there would be no reason not to release it. They have no problem staying the course with other 'controversial' positions. My guess is that the military and Bush Administration don't consider it proof of anything, but that Santorum does.
We haven't heard anything about particular sites with large caches - which suggests that these were fragmented left-overs from Gulf War I, not part of a modern, functional arsenal. The quoted report says discovered 'since 2003' (not on a particular date like March 12, 2004) again suggesting a larger number of small finds. The reports also mentioned empty shells and 'degraded' sarin and mustard gas, but not fresh and functional weapons, again suggesting 20 - 30 year old munitions scattered by the chaos of earlier wars. There is no question that he had a large stockpile up through 1991 - with the blessing of the US, Germany and Russia. During the roll-back of Iraq from Kuwait, we blew entered part of Iraq and attacked some Iraqi munitions bunkers in person, some by special air mail. If one/one-thousandth of the targeted arsenal were not completely destroyed and later came to light, that would easily be 500+ shells. And it would prove nothing about the rationale for going to war.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2006, 8:39pm by floridian » |
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medic1852
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Re: wmds
« Reply #18 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 8:37pm » |
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on Jun 21st, 2006, 8:30pm, Floridian wrote:
We haven't heard anything about particular sites with large caches - which suggests that these were fragmented left-overs from Gulf War I, not part of a modern, functional arsenal. The quoted report says 'since 2003' - not on March 12, 2004, again suggesting a larger number of small finds. The reports also mentioned empty shells and 'degraded' sarin and mustard gas, but not fresh and functional weapons, again suggesting 20 - 30 year old munitions scattered by the chaos of earlier wars. There is no question that he had a large stockpile up through 1991 - with the blessing of the US, Germany and Russia. During the roll-back of Iraq from Kuwait, we blew entered part of Iraq and attacked some Iraqi munitions bunkers in person, some by special air mail. If one/one-thousandth of the targeted arsenal were not completely destroyed and later came to light, that would easily be 500+ shells. And it would prove nothing about the rationale for going to war.
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Check the shelf life on this stuff. It is very temperature sensitive. Check the normal summer temps in Iraq.
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floridian
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on Jun 21st, 2006, 8:37pm, medic1852 wrote:
Check the shelf life on this stuff. It is very temperature sensitive. Check the normal summer temps in Iraq.
Rodger
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Sure, I get your point - anything that is left at the surface would be rendered near worthless in quick order. But if it were in a collapsed bunker, covered with several feet of dirt, it would not be exposed to the same extremes. As one goes deeper under the surface, the temperature soon gets close to the annual average temperature.
My point (and Charlie's) is that we have seen a partial, selective release of classified information - no assessment of when the stuff was manufactured and when Saddam lost institutional control of it. Was it part of a functional chemical armory in 2001? That is what people are implying, but I haven't heard Santorum read from the report to say that was or wasn't the case. Only that some weapons were found - which could be a big deal, or could mean nothing.
on Jun 21st, 2006, 7:54pm, unsolved1 wrote:The next batch of wmds could be pointed at us now by North Korea. We think they are still fueling the missle. Once it is fueled, they have 5- 10 days to fire it or scrap it.
If it is fired and is headed this way, wouldn't the responsible thing for our government to do is to at least attemp to shoot it down ? Or should we let it fly and hope LA is still there when it's over ?
UNsolved |
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So they are willing to have their entire country destroyed to take out one U.S. city? Call me a sceptic - I think Kim is having too much fun with his car collection, his personal cinema, his multiple mistresses, etc.. Why mess with that?
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| « Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2006, 9:41pm by floridian » |
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: wmds
« Reply #20 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 10:03pm » |
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It just another page in the bullshit book of politics.
Is there not even one politician that is focused on meaningful issues?
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AussieBrian
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Re: wmds
« Reply #21 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 10:11pm » |
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Politicians are like babies' diapers - they should be changed regularly for the same reasons.
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Brew
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Re: wmds
« Reply #22 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 10:13pm » |
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I said it above in post #4: Get ready for it ... They're old weapons. They don't count. Bush lied, people died.
Didn't take too long. 4 or 5 hours.
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Kevin_M
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Re: wmds
« Reply #23 on: Jun 21st, 2006, 10:19pm » |
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on Jun 21st, 2006, 9:35pm, floridian wrote:| But if it were in a collapsed bunker, covered with several feet of dirt, it would not be exposed to the same extremes. |
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That wouldn't matter either Jon. In 1989, one priority task was to improve the stability of the nerve agents, the low quality had caused them to deteriorate in a matter of weeks. Even storing Sarin-filled munitions in refrigerated bunkers had failed to solve the problem.
Iraqi scientists addressed the problem by developing binary munitions, field mixed. One component, DF could be kept separately for a few years, added to a 60/40 mixure of isopropyl alcohol and cyclohexl alcohol in the missile warhead, once mixed would only last months though.
Iraqi experimented with dual-chamber artillery shells and 122 mm rockets, in which the DF and the alcohol mixture were stored in separate compartments and allowed to combine and react after the munition was fired. About a hundred "true binary" shells were tested in 1989 and 1990 with "encouraging" results but the technology never worked reliably enough to warrant large scale production.*
*358.3 T
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floridian
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on Jun 21st, 2006, 10:13pm, brewcrew wrote:I said it above in post #4: Get ready for it ... They're old weapons. They don't count. Bush lied, people died.
Didn't take too long. 4 or 5 hours. |
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Just like the "invade because there is Al Qaeda in Iraq" argument - it does make a difference whether they were in parts of Iraq controlled by Saddam and/or receiving his support (which would be a reason to invade), vs. being in Kurdistan where Saddam had no control, along with assessments by every other western intelligence agency that secular Saddam hated the fundamentalists, saw them as a threat to his rule, and did not support them (which would make "Al Qaeda in Iraq!" a non-reason to invade). Such subtle distinctions.
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