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Topic: Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service (Read 1251 times) |
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Jonny
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« on: May 1st, 2006, 7:20pm » |
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Theres no arguing with those facts!! 
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maffumatt
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #1 on: May 1st, 2006, 7:43pm » |
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notice how the media never uses the term illegal alien, it is now politaly correct to use the term undocumented immigrant It is lacking both the illegal and the alien terms.
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Kris_in_SJ
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #2 on: May 1st, 2006, 7:55pm » |
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How pathetic it all is.
My best friend's son lives in Houston and he owns 2 waste management companies. Treats his employees very well. Today, 80% of them walked out in support of the "cause."
What's really tellling ... he and his wife speak only Spanish at home now so they can become more fluent in the predominant language of Houston. Isn't this backwards?
I'm all for diversity, but illegal is illegal, no matter what the
"politically corect" term might be. And Houston is still in America - at least the last time I looked.
Kris
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PL259
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #3 on: May 1st, 2006, 8:06pm » |
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Go google and check and see what the mexican government does to illegal imm __OOPs undocumented workers from south america that sneak in.
What about the word "illegal' don't the world understand. I break the law of the land, I pay, fines, jail, etc.
Just kiss my a$$ and call me country! And dammed proud of it.
In my mis-spent youth at one time a law officer told me ignorance of the law was not an excuse. It wasn't, he cuffed my ass!
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Jonny
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #4 on: May 1st, 2006, 8:31pm » |
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Pulling posts, Flo?
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
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floridian
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #5 on: May 1st, 2006, 8:45pm » |
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Yeah, tired of this chat. Doubt the facts would change some people's minds. Later.
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Jonny
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #6 on: May 1st, 2006, 8:50pm » |
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Gee, all I see is facts in this thread.
Be well, Flo.
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nani
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #7 on: May 1st, 2006, 10:12pm » |
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Hey, here's a little discussed fact...
the Pilgrims were illegal aliens. Nobody invited them, either.
Another little discussed fact...
indigent uninsured citizens drain health care resources.
And one more... our taxes do go to care for felons...
in our state prison systems.
Sometimes, I'm just disgusted with this place. 
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_Lee_
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #8 on: May 2nd, 2006, 2:26am » |
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I'm pretty sure about the fact that Mexico once owned California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. Once we took control of Mexico City, they gave up the above to get us out of their hair. Not much different than stealing all the rest of the U.S. from the Indians, except they get to have casino's.
L
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MJ
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #9 on: May 2nd, 2006, 3:32am » |
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on May 1st, 2006, 9:27pm, KingOfPain wrote:
Looks like: new shoes, new coats, a nice white hat, nice jeans...they don't look like "poverty sufferers" to me.
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They are not poverty sufferers. They come here work 2 and sometimes 3 jobs to try and get ahead.
Notice what they are carrying. Most likely they will come for a year or more.
All that they need they will buy here in the sates from our stores and they are 12 million strong maybe more.
They work here so they dont have to make in mexico and elsewhere the products you buy everyday for slave wages.
Maybe you all should try and buy american made as well, good luck.
Its a two headed horse making a big fart.
Here in minnesota they had to shut down all the packing plants, beef, turkey, and hog operations for today to honor the ralleys. Several hundred restaurants needed to close due to lack of help for the evening hours. Many other manufacturing operations went down to a crawl. Many rural ag operations were concerned but most showed up to work so as not to create a hardship on employers.
I would make a preliminary guess and say maybe 50 million dollars were lost today in minnesota.
On the bright side though the 12 million undocumented immigrants still probably managed to spend at least $240,000,000 million dollars in supporting our economy today. While paying the sales taxes on all things which helps pay for our roads, our schools, our healthcare system and our prisons. All purchases with cash not a credit or debit card wich pulls up to 6% of the sale away from the vendors
Tommorrow they will buy new hats boots and shoes, Cars, computers and hard goods that are sold here in the USA but made by their brothers sisters aunts and uncles back home in Quatamala, Mexico, Ecuador, Taiwan, China, etc..
What did you contribute today to help make life undesirable in their home countries.
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clarence
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #10 on: May 2nd, 2006, 7:52am » |
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on May 1st, 2006, 9:27pm, KingOfPain wrote:
Looks like: new shoes, new coats, a nice white hat, nice jeans...they don't look like "poverty sufferers" to me.
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Can you really know these guys' life story from this picture? Until you walk a mile...
All I'm saying is that it might not be as black and white as some people make it out to be...
Casey
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Chip80
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #11 on: May 2nd, 2006, 8:07am » |
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My ancestors immigrated to this nation via Ellis Island legally. There were immigration laws in place that they respected and abided by.
Those of you that are of the opinion that the Pilgrims were illegal immigrants are ignorant. Please show me the immigration laws that were in place and broken at the time the Pilgrims arrived. The fact is there weren't any - no laws were broken, thus nothing illegal took place.
IMO - Immigrants are people that have legally settled in this country. All others living in this country illegally should be categorized as felons, and so should employers of these felons. What is it about breaking the law that people don't understand?
People will complain about child slave labor, but seem to have no problem with Mexican slave labor in the U.S. Employers of these felons should be shut down for running and facilitating a back-door slave trade!
Those of you that believe that Mexicans border jumpers are justified in their actions and should be granted amnisty seem to imply that if you disagree with the laws of the United States you may break them if you feel you are justified. In addition you feel you should not be penalized for breaking laws that you don't agree with.
This is not the Lawless States of American - yet. As Reagan said - "A nation without borders is not a nation."
A nation that doesn't enforce it laws will deteriorate into another Nuevo Lorada Mexico.
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Dragnlance
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #12 on: May 2nd, 2006, 8:36am » |
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First off, this is not about racial prejudice. This simply about right and wrong. I have no problem at all with those that went about the immigration legally.
MY qualm is with those that come sneaking into the country, either by climbing a fence or crawling thru a tunnel, and then have the UNMITIGATED GALL to demand the same rights as LEGAL citizens of this country.
As soon as you change the laws to "forgive" them their CRIME, you know the lawyers of this country will glomb onto this with both hands and get every single murderer, child molester and thief off, based on the same precedent that these law breakers (illegal immigrants) were "forgiven" so these should be "forgiven" too.
We will become a LAWLESS country from that point forward.
The comment about the Indians... Let me point out, the Polish, the Irish, the Slovic, the Russians, the Native Mexicans, even most of CHina, in fact, ALL of Europe. Every one of these countries have one thing in common. They are a conquered people.
Everyone acts like the Indians are the only ones that were conquered and the land taken away. NOT SO!
Get back to the point. ILLEGAL immigrant do not belong, should not belong. Why should some of the immigrant have to pay large sums of money and go to all the effort to become LEGAL citizens, when crossing the borders in the night is free?????
I ask, is this fair to them????
Dragn
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| « Last Edit: May 2nd, 2006, 8:43am by Dragnlance » |
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superhawk2300
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #13 on: May 2nd, 2006, 9:17am » |
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Fisrt off I AM for VERY strict immigration criteria and am against illegal aliens in this country. It seems to me we are trying to skin the cat the hard way.
I see it this way. Some whites want to eat in authintic mexican resurants and use the cheap labor pool to their companies advantage to make profits for themselves.
It is 100% hypocritical to want to use illegal aliens when it profits you and then when they complain about it, then cite all the negatives about it and want to shut down the borders.
People, the world is a simple place. Every action has a equal and opposite reaction. If thre wasn't jobs given to these aliens they wouldn't be here in the first place, period. Hiring illegal aliens is AMERICAN CITIZENS breaking the law, for their own profit, at the expense of others!
Where is the clamor to jail the job GIVERS in this case? Not only are they just as guilty of the current mess as the job takers, they brought it about themselves.
I worked construction when I lived in FL. The company hired know illegal aliens and the whites made them do all the shit jobs (and I mean that figurtivly and literly - we were underground untilities) and payed them 2 dollars an hour (1990's dollars - lets be fair).
There should be a gov rep at everyplace that has walkouts and every ilegal should be deported ASAP, right afer the company that hired them is fined for each and everyone working there.
And who could complain, if the illegals doing a walk out crippled your company? Hire some AMERICAN CITIZENS and pay the proper wage, and EMPLOYER portion of taxes, and benefits and you wouldn't have this problem.
It is only fair to let the door swing both ways....
I forget who brought up the pilgrims and the reply to claim that the Indians welcomed the pilgrims as friends - that reply only supports the immigration claims, which is the opposite side of the debate than the replier is on. It also shows that it is was the indians who are capable of welcoming others, not the other way around. Of course it does nothing to counter the fact that if you are white your relatives helped steal eveything you own from other who were here first: The fact the pilgrims were welcomed as friends doesn't justify the rest even remotley.
I ain't saying that I as a white person own anyone anything for some things that were done way before I was born, but I do think to ignore what happened or act like it was somehow justified adds insult to injury and makes me feel foolish and ignorant.
Jamey
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| « Last Edit: May 2nd, 2006, 9:32am by superhawk2300 » |
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superhawk2300
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #14 on: May 2nd, 2006, 9:26am » |
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Dragonlance,
I do not undestand some of your points have some questions for you to help me.
" This simply about right and wrong"
"Everyone acts like the Indians are the only ones that were conquered and the land taken away. NOT SO!"
Does the fact that other people have been killed for their land make the plight of the indians simply right or wrong in your opinion? I noticed you like enough about indians to take an "indian name".
I don't understand your last paragraph in context with the rest of your post - the two sentances seem to counteract each other, but they do highlight a big problem with the system. I am sure it is me reading this paragraph wrong so could you elaborte a little?>
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Dragnlance
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #15 on: May 2nd, 2006, 9:40am » |
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I actually like the indian ways, and some of their beliefs. What I have a problem with, is that everyone acts like the Brittish 'whites' are the only ones who did this and that the Indians are the only victims in the whole world.
What happened to them is wrong and tragic, but we cannot change the past. I also want people to remember that there is no place on earth that has not had the same history.
The second paragraph was meant to emphasize that while this country is a land of immigrants, we cannot allow illegals to have the same rights and privliges that legal citizens do. I work with several immigrants here, and they tell me what all they had to do to become citizens of the U.S. . If we allow illegals to stay, and be 'forgiven', then we will have to reimburse those who took the legal route, for their time and money.
I hope this clairifies, but if not, let me know.
Dragn
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Tom K
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #16 on: May 2nd, 2006, 9:56am » |
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Everyone has their own take on this, depending on what side of the political isle they reside on. Here is one fact that can't be questioned...20% of the US population is for an unsecured boarder. I get this number from the fact that only 80% of the population is for securing our boarder, be it with Mexico or America Jr.(Just kidding, eh! LOL!) What other country in the world would actualy have a debate on whether or not to secure their boarder and what other country would not have 100% of it's population for it? Just something to think about...
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Bob P
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #17 on: May 2nd, 2006, 10:14am » |
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It's called a "Green Card" folks. The legal way for foreigners to work in this country. They don't have to become citizens. My mother-in-law was a green card her entire life in the US. Made a good living, owned a house, raised a family.
This is an issue of legal vs illegal.
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/residency/index.htm
Quote:On the bright side though the 12 million undocumented immigrants still probably managed to spend at least $240,000,000 million dollars in supporting our economy today. While paying the sales taxes on all things which helps pay for our roads, our schools, our healthcare system and our prisons. All purchases with cash not a credit or debit card wich pulls up to 6% of the sale away from the vendors
Tommorrow they will buy new hats boots and shoes, Cars, computers and hard goods that are sold here in the USA but made by their brothers sisters aunts and uncles back home in Quatamala, Mexico, Ecuador, Taiwan, China, etc..
What did you contribute today to help make life undesirable in their home countries. |
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NAFTA - That big sucking sound as Ross Perot described it. Thanks to slick willy we've sent them jobs. (Never mind that US citizens had to give up theirs).
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| « Last Edit: May 2nd, 2006, 10:42am by Bob P » |
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imnotbub
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #18 on: May 2nd, 2006, 11:09am » |
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on May 2nd, 2006, 8:07am, Chip80 wrote:| My ancestors immigrated to this nation via Ellis Island legally. There were immigration laws in place that they respected and abided by. |
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This is a bit misleading. While I do support a stricter immigration law enforcement, and believe me, I pay for my beliefs on a daily basis with arguments with my wife, I think it's important to remember that at Ellis island, where my ancestors also came in, the immigration laws in place were basically....show up, don't have lice or some obvious disease, you're in.
"What's your name?"
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Ghost
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #19 on: May 2nd, 2006, 11:52am » |
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on May 1st, 2006, 10:12pm, nani wrote:Hey, here's a little discussed fact...
the Pilgrims were illegal aliens. Nobody invited them, either.
Another little discussed fact...
indigent uninsured citizens drain health care resources.
And one more... our taxes do go to care for felons...
in our state prison systems.
Sometimes, I'm just disgusted with this place. |
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Hey Mom I got to do this.
When the Pilgrims came this was not a reconized country by even the standards of the time. It was not imigration it was colonization. Same as when the spanards colonized Mexico and the Southwest.
Once the counrty of the United States of America was established over time laws where made to protect and defend this countries soverenty. Yes we are a nation of mostly immigrants, but we are also a nation of laws.
There is a guest worked program in place where as if a company would like to use migrant workers, they can apply to the government and legally obtain workers from other countries to work for them. If they attempt and can document they tried to get local labor and was unable the will be granted the ability to actually increase the numbers of guest workers to legally cross into this country with a work visa and work for them. This program actually requires no cost to the worker and even a tax free status they just have to get there whether it be by bus, car, taxy, or even the company provided transportation.
The problem is the companies are so grossly underpaying the illegals that if they did it legally they would have to pay them a fair wage. The workers are not better for the way it is being done now they are actually getting ripped off. As a guest worker they can actually go to a legitamate border crossing and apply to a list for access to the program. The list is then turned over to the authorities and a limited background check is done. If they are not felons or wanted they will most likely be accepted into the program, again at no cost to them. Yes this does take time but at least there is the advantage of not paying a Mule to cross/transport them and the possability of dying on the journey. I agree the problem has escallated to almost immesurable proportions but there has to be a point where for the security of the country we have to stop the flow of illegal crossings and assist those wanting to work the ability to do so legally. If done correctly both sides of the issue can be assisted and there wouldn't be so many problems and issues to bicker about. If those wanting to work are not criminals then they should not have a problem doing it legally. There are presently hundreds of thousands doing exactly what I described and they do not have to live in fear of being detained and sent home for no other reason than just being here. During the time they are in the guest worker program most apply for either citizenship or dual citizenship. All of this can be done Legally and this would also grant them rights they feel they should have. Ok well I will wait to get blasted now but I hope before blasting me please read my whole post and see that it can be done right and fair.
Mike
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Chip80
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #20 on: May 2nd, 2006, 12:01pm » |
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on May 2nd, 2006, 11:09am, imnotbub wrote:
This is a bit misleading. While I do support a stricter immigration law enforcement, and believe me, I pay for my beliefs on a daily basis with arguments with my wife, I think it's important to remember that at Ellis island, where my ancestors also came in, the immigration laws in place were basically....show up, don't have lice or some obvious disease, you're in.
"What's your name?"
"Scuze?"
"Your first name!"
"Que?"
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There is nothing misleading about it. The laws and processes in place were followed. My ancestors didn't stow-away or border jump to get in this country.
I suppose you are hoping to make the argument that because it's just sooo hard to become a legal immigrant today, that it's justifiable to break the law. Sorry, I'm not buying your crap!
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catlind
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #21 on: May 2nd, 2006, 12:39pm » |
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on May 1st, 2006, 7:12pm, KingOfPain wrote:US Immigration and Naturalization Service
Apply for Your U.S. Citizenship Today
http://www.uscitizenship.info/?ad=adword&keyword=citizenship2
========================================
Illegal Alien/Illegal Immigrant [illegal]
alien [noun]
Main Entry: alien
Function: noun
1 : a person of another family, race, or nation
2 : a foreign-born resident who has not been naturalized and is still a subject or citizen of a foreign country; broadly : a foreign-born citizen
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Hmmm I wonder what that makes me then. Guess I can call myself an alien from now on 
I'm a foreign-born resident who has not been naturalized and still a subject citizen of a foreign country. I'm not a citizen, I'm an alien, although not an illegal one....I didn't see a definition for a permanent resident.
Just as a thought, it has cost us over $4500 US for myself and my 2 oldest kids to become permanent residents in the US with my husband as an active duty member in the USAF. For pretty much every other country besides Canada, there is a lottery for immigrants to enter legally. The cost for them is probably as much if not considerably more if they require an immigration lawyer. Mexicans cross the border illegally - generally paying around $2000-$3000 to get smuggled in. Do the math, they enter illegally not just because of the lottery, but also because of the cost of immigrating, and then all the other factors that have drawn so many here.
This is neither and endorsement nor a damnation, just simply stating the facts. I did everything legally, by the book at every step and it has been a struggle. It's a huge financial endeavor, and the cost of the medical alone is daunting. The main reason I haven't actually taken my naturalization yet? $1200 cash up front for myself and my 2 kids on top of the $4500 I've already paid.
Quote:Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breath free.
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
Emma Lazurus, 1883 |
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Hmm.... not exactly inviting the poor to do things legally.
Cat
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| « Last Edit: May 2nd, 2006, 12:50pm by catlind » |
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Kevin_M
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #22 on: May 2nd, 2006, 12:46pm » |
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on May 1st, 2006, 10:12pm, nani wrote:| Hey, here's a little discussed fact... |
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| « Last Edit: May 2nd, 2006, 12:51pm by Kevin_M » |
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maffumatt
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #23 on: May 2nd, 2006, 12:47pm » |
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I'm curious as to what the reaction is going to be when the next terrorist stike in the US happens and it is found the those who did it crossed illegaly from Canada or Mexico.
Another thing that comes to mind, in the Palo Verde Vally in Southern California where most of my family lives, it is a heavy Ag community, illegals are hired and work the mellon and Vegtable fields. The average wage there is 5 dollars an hour, far below the California min. wage. Those people work their ass off in 120 plus degree temps. People die from doing that work. Is that right? Is that fair? No. I have nothing against those people at all, as a matter of fact I have a high degree of respect for them. However if they were legal they would get paid a living wage, and wouldn't be forced to live next to the drainage ditches, drinking farm wastewater runoff, ect.....The conditions they are forced to live in are inhumane, all because the farmers there can save a few cents per pound on the produce. Be legal and be treated like a person instead of a damn dog is my opinion.
Matt.
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catlind
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Re: US Immigration and Naturalization Service
« Reply #24 on: May 2nd, 2006, 12:57pm » |
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on May 2nd, 2006, 12:47pm, maffumatt wrote:I'm curious as to what the reaction is going to be when the next terrorist stike in the US happens and it is found the those who did it crossed illegaly from Canada or Mexico.
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Hmmm wonder what the reaction will be when they find out the terrorists who DID attack were granted an educational visa AFTER they were identified as the ones dead on a plane that crashed into the WTC....
Don't look to include Canada in the same arena as Mexicans coming into this country. The immigration laws with Canada are COMPLETELY different than for Mexico. There is no lottery for immigration, Canadians are one of 2 countries allowed to maintain dual citizenships legally, people in Canada can live for 6 months in the US without having to do anything more than cross the border and say where they are going and for how long, and in the months after 9/11 we were still living in upstate NY where it was STILL harder to get into Canada than it was the US. In fact they had the commander at Fort Drum had the Canadian customs and immigration officers babysitting the soldiers...not allowing them to cross the border without official leave orders...something which is illegal in Canada and that I took directly to the Minister of Immigration and had a man fired for...not to mention the PR office at Drum when they received the copy of the letter with the complaint to the Human Rights Commission and the Minister of Immigration.
Be careful how you choose to generalize things.
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A true friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart
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