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Topic: Parenting advice, UPDATE (Read 626 times) |
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Parenting advice, UPDATE
« on: Apr 8th, 2006, 11:12am » |
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This thread is based on a true situation, and I also am wondering about more along the same lines.
My wife's friends has a 9 year old girl. This 9 year old will kick or punch her mom if her mom tells her to do something. Also, this kid has learned the game, and when the mom says she will spank her, or takes her hand and puts the kid in her room, the kid screams bloody murder in the appt complex. "STOP BEATING ME, STOP BEATING ME", and this 9 year old calls the cops and CSD and lies to them.
Of course, if the mom spanks her kid's ass like I think she should, CSD has said if there are any marks on the kid she will be taken to foster care.
So, my question is this: what can a parent do with a kid this age when they just simply wont listen? The other day the kid had on some ridiculous clothes and mommy said "you are not going to school like that!!", and then this kid started hitting her mom and screaming so that neighbors would come over or call the cops.
Or like in the grocery store, this kid will open a bag of cookies and start eating them, so when mom says she cant do that, she screams LOUD in the middle of the store and creates a scene.
From this question stems another question: If there were a kid who was like 16 years old and says "Goodbye, I am going to a keg party", what can the parent legally do to prevent the kid from going?
Yes, I know, teaching the kid some respect at a younger age would have solved this situation, but the past cant be changed.
I am not looking for advice on what should have been done in the past, I am looking for advice on what can be done now.
Thanks for some advice.
BMonee
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| « Last Edit: Apr 15th, 2006, 1:05pm by BMoneeTheMoneeMan » |
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deltadarlin
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #1 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 11:27am » |
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With the 9 year old, I would think that the police are getting wise to her antics and not be quite as *kind* to the kid? Calling 911 and making a false (and they are false) report is a punishable crime in most states.
At this point, outside intervention is needed. Both the parent and child need some counseling. I would even go as far as to having the child see a psychiatrist and be evaluated for any problems. Where is the father in all this?
As to her screaming in the grocery store? There is a cure for this and it's called ignoring her and walking off. AND, since it seems that being sent to her room is a no go, what about stripping privileges or *things*? A bare floor with just a blanket is not comfortable.
Stopping a 16 year old from going to a keg party? Confinement to the basement  ? To be honest, I've never had this problem, BUT, what you can do is find out where said party is and make a phone call to the police. How is the 16 year old going to get there? On foot? In a car? With friends?
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nani
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #2 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 11:31am » |
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Have the parent's had this child evaluated, or at least talked to her pediatrician about this? At 9, some of her behavior is completely inappropriate. I'd have to know more about her parent's way of dealing (or ignoring) with her outbursts to say for sure...but I wonder if she isn't ADHD or something. This is not to say that I think medication will control a child... the parent's have to have enough control to teach her to control herself. If she needs meds, though, they can help her be receptive to learning.
I am not "anti- spanking" really, sometimes a swat on the bottom is what you need to get a 4 year olds complete attention... BUT... when you hit an older child out of frustration, you're teaching them that it's OK to hit someone when they are frustrated with them. WTF kinda lesson is that?
If I'd have had my bi-polar, ADHD daughter evaluated when she was 9...I probably wouldn't be raising her kids right now. 
Having been through the mill.. tell them in it's in their own best interest to follow through on this.
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Linda_Howell
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #3 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 11:31am » |
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Excedrin headache number #54 ????
Wow, that child has learned really well, hasn't she? Manipulating the system/her parents/ etc.
I do believe that this is a question for...drum-roll here.......SUPER E-DOUBLE. Eric, if you see this, answer the man. 
Linda
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Melissa
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #4 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 11:52am » |
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Sounds like the girl has been playing her mom for quite some time. Usually if the kid can get away with it once, they'll try it again. And if the parent doesn't put their foot down and flat out refuse to bend, the saga will obviously continue.
As for the screaming in the store at 9 years old, that's unusual. . Now a 2-6 yr. old is a whole nuther ballgame.
I'd do agree that the child needs counseling. There seems to be something behind all this acting out.
Wow....9 years old with that behavior? That's just odd...
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #5 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 11:53am » |
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This kid has been problematic since she was very young.
Mommy and the kid have been to several counceling agencies, and the kid was on some drugs for ADHD or something. The kid would not take her meds on purpose and say she 'forgot' (she forgot to swallow the pill that mommy watched her put in her mouth), and when she 'came down' from the drugs she had real anger issues.
This woman has called a few agencies to get help and she says that her kid is abusive and is out of control. Then those agencies called the cops to make sure the kid was ok, and after they confirmed the kid was ok, they dont help her.
The dad is a druggie who has never been around, and even refuses to work because his wages would be garnished for child support.
This is also a situation where the mom had a horrific childhood with sexual abuse and foster homes. It's a shame to see the cycle through generations. She does not want at all for her daughter to go to a foster home......but her daughter is a real threat........she even kicked her mom in the stomach when she was like 7 or 8 months pregnant. Mommy started bleeding.
I agree, i think that 9 is an age where spanking is bordering inapropriate.
I just dont know what one can do in this situation. We live in an age where a kid can look at their parent in the eyes and say "no". The parent cant really do anything.
BMonee
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Melissa
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #6 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 11:59am » |
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It's so unfortunate when parents can't find something to "fix" their childs behavior. Medications work, but like you said, she doesn't swallow the pill. Not sure what to say to you.
If it were my child, I'd probably commit her for a little while, I know it seems harsh, but when a human being is THAT out of control, what else can you do??
 sad
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karma
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #7 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 11:59am » |
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Military school or the like pronto!
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #8 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 12:07pm » |
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Mel, when you say commit her, what do you mean?
She is interested in sending her somewhere, not necessarily to a hospital, more like to a place for troubled kids that need to learn some control.
The thing is, where? What kind of organization?
I am in Portland, Oregon, you know of any places?
Although I guess it wouldnt matter what state its in.
Thanks a lot
BMonee
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Jonny
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #9 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 12:08pm » |
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #10 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 12:14pm » |
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on Apr 8th, 2006, 12:08pm, Jonny wrote:
What do you think, bro?
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zwibbs/Scott
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #11 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 12:22pm » |
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She needs to see a child psychiatrist asap. 9 years old !?!?!?! Other than a good bitch slapping this child needs medication that will correct whatever imbalance she is experiencing.
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Melissa
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #12 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 12:30pm » |
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on Apr 8th, 2006, 12:07pm, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:Mel, when you say commit her, what do you mean?
She is interested in sending her somewhere, not necessarily to a hospital, more like to a place for troubled kids that need to learn some control.
The thing is, where? What kind of organization?
I am in Portland, Oregon, you know of any places?
Although I guess it wouldnt matter what state its in.
Thanks a lot
BMonee
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Well, unless a psych diognoses her as mentall ill, a hospital wouldn't really be a right setting. A group home perhaps would be better? We have one near us called the Homme Home. I know that somewhere else near us, not sure if it's in MN or MI, there is the Rawhide boys ranch. Not sure what they'd have for girls other than a group home??
Before looking into a group home, her mom needs maybe to take up some parent education classes for troubled teens or something first. Tough Love comes to mind (my mom went through TL for me)...
http://www.4troubledteens.com/toughlove.html[s][/s]
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| « Last Edit: Apr 9th, 2006, 9:33pm by Melissa » |
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marlinsfan
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #13 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 1:12pm » |
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on Apr 8th, 2006, 11:59am, karma wrote:Military school or the like pronto!
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My thought exactly!
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lionsound
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #14 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 1:45pm » |
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on Apr 8th, 2006, 11:31am, Linda_Howell wrote:
I do believe that this is a question for...drum-roll here.......SUPER E-DOUBLE. Eric, if you see this, answer the man.
Linda |
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Linda I was thinking the exact same thing.
and if the kid has real psych issues...family may need serious specialist intervention. Just like HA doc's, not all shrinks and counselors know what they are doing.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2006, 1:48pm by lionsound » |
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jimmers
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #15 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 1:46pm » |
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When I tried to call the cops on my Dad, He just beat me with the phone.
jimmers
Seriously, her Mom should have her evaluated by a behavioral specialist.
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DonnaHar
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #16 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 2:08pm » |
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I raised three kids alone and have been to hell and back like a lot of you. I've made my mistakes in raising them and now that I look back, I can see where I did.
The 9 year old is too old for smacking around, locking up or taking little privileges away, and medications should only be used as a last resort. The first thing I would do is tell this kid that you (the mom, in this case) and this child are going to sit down and have a talk OR mom will call the police and bring charges against this kid as an "unruly child", or if the kid hits the mom or anyone else the charges will change to battery.
Second, sit down and tell this child that things are going to change right now. Have a list of changes to be made, ie; curfews, when homework is to be done, acting out or lying in public or elsewhere, etc.. No soft spot later when this little con artist turns lovey dovey. If the child breaks the rules, press charges (if your state allows this. I know Ohio did a few years ago.) Let the child know that you love her very much, but her bad behavour will be delt with harshly. No slack. I'd even go so far as to talk to a probation officer at juvinile court. Get some advice from law enforcement. Juvinile probation officers know all the tricks, and you want to be the one to press charges, not the child, so let someone official know what you are dealing with. You'd be surprised how a court room, judge and tough love can work.
Be sure to act like you can keep your cool and that you really do mean business. If things don't get better, follow through on your plan of action. You must have a plan or you will fold.
Experienced manipulaters rarely benefit from a counselor out of the phone book. You have to find a good match, or you're just wasting money.
If this sounds to advanced for a 9 year old, remember how advanced this mis-behavour is. This kid is a pro.
The 16 year old needs to be dealt with just about the same way, except in some states they can quit school and walk away from you. Stressing your love and talking to the 16 year old like an adult, to a point, is important but remember who the parent is and who is supposed to be the boss in the house. Tell this girl that you know what's going on (you were a kid once, made mistakes and realize how wrong and dangerous they were) , that you will be checking up on her comings and goings and when she accuses you of not trusting her, let her know that it was she who broke the line of trust and that it needs to be rebuilt one block at a time. DO check up on her. If she's spending the night at a friends, call the parents to confirm this. Do not embarrass her in front of her friends. Deal with the adults and with her privately. If she receives bad grades, talk to her teacher about weekly reports or e-mail communication. Make the rules reasonable and DO NOT make allowances.....not for one weeks good behavior, not for company coming over, not for relatives going somewhere and wanting her to come.
Give it a lot of thought before acting and do get advice.
Tough love hurts, but it usually works.
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Good luck!
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| « Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2006, 2:12pm by DonnaHar » |
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FramCire
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #17 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 2:20pm » |
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Until E-Double can chime in, let this Eric give it a shot.
I would contact the school and see if they have a behavior specialist. If so, the child IS a threat to other children as well and maybe the school people can get involved and at least make some suggestions.
Also, see if your school (try the special ed people or an Alternative school) have CPI training. CPI (Crisis Prevention and intervention) teaches techniques to avoid a physical altercation and non-violent ways to restrain your child when they get violent.
As for the 16 year old. I believe you could tell anyone who comes to pick up the child that he/she is not allowed to go and that you will call the police if they take the child.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2006, 3:34pm by FramCire » |
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Charlie
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #18 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 5:41pm » |
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Quote:| Get some advice from law enforcement. Juvinile probation officers know all the tricks, and you want to be the one to press charges, not the child, so let someone official know what you are dealing with. You'd be surprised how a court room, judge and tough love can work. |
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Yes. My advice is to make sure the right people know of this. Some of your neighbors need to be in on it as well as the law, school and perhaps other agencies. Don't worry about ebarrassment, worry about your own sanity. Better to do this than to let the kid tempt you to real harm.
Make things better for yourself. You're the one that matters in his life.
Charlie
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Richr8
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #19 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 5:55pm » |
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Her's how it works in my town. When one of my older boys was sixteen, he was very disrespectful to his mother and I. One day he decided he was going somewhere that he was forbidden to go and decided to disobey and started on his way. No amount of reasoning, which got to loud reasoning, woud deter him from his path. Knowing full well that physical restraint is not an option these days, we called the local police who hunted him down, brought him home , and explained to him that if he died not follow our instructions that hey would be back to take him directly to juvenile hall for a nice stay there. Problem solved. Call it tough love or whatever, but it works. If that was my daughter she would be the one speaking to counselors, behavior specialist or whomever to get this behavior under control. A night or two in juvie, would bring her in line. I would also think that the parents might also need some training as well. There aare certainly things that can be done, but since they took away the switch, many people are not well trained on how to handle out of control kids. In some cases they create them. It clearly sound s like this little girl is the one with the power for now.
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #20 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 6:21pm » |
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Thanks all for the responses.
This person has worked with councelors and the school knows full well about the situation.
One time this kid took a golf cart from her appartment complex manager and took it for a ride and crashed it hard and ruined it. They called the cops. Nothing happened.
So if the mom called the cops and said she has been assaulted by her 9 year old, the cops will take her to some sort of juvenile detention place?
Thanks again
BMonee
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #21 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 6:26pm » |
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on Apr 8th, 2006, 6:21pm, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:So if the mom called the cops and said she has been assaulted by her 9 year old, the cops will take her to some sort of juvenile detention place?
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Check with your local authorities. In AZ. they will Fortunately, we just needed the threat.
In this, as in many cases, the kids are educated on child abuse in the schools and then use what they know to scare their parents out of taking any action, so the kids spin out of control. If the parents don't know the appropriate response, that is, call for help, the kids win. You just need to know the 21st century responses. The ones our parents used will put you in jail.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2006, 6:27pm by Richr8 » |
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pf wishes,
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MJ
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #22 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 8:26pm » |
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My thoughts.
I know it must be hard being a single parent. I have 5 kids of my own and the youngest is 10.
First I would say mom needs to get some attention, she,s afraid of a 9 year old for heavens sake, to find the root cause of her problems in being unable to control her daughter , is she enabling her it sounds like it. Screw the counselors they allways make a losing situation worse.
Me personallly I would slap the bejiggers out of her authorities be damned. The kid knows mom wont do it thats why she screams that way.
I would then remove any inkling of privacy, ie; bedroom doors, excess stuff she doesnt need, any luxury, television, "telephone" etc.. Find some good age appropriate reading and only feed her good food at meal times and remove the rest.
Give the kid her own medicine, at 9 she is a child and should be treated like one. Generally doesnt take more than a few days treating her like a bad dog and saying you love them anyways for her to get it. She will come around.
Call the cops ahead of time next time she goes to her room to scream ask them to send someone out one time to show they aint gonna buy her shit either.
If that doesnt work have her arrested for assault. She will have a clean record at 18.
Kids have to know their limits, sounds like this child has none.
When they show respect they will get more love and respect than they ever thought possible. Also check out the old man is he helping to create the problem.
My kids are a pretty good bunch, highly motivated and involved in school and college, great grades etc.. in spite of me. But definately a pain now and again However it seems I spend more time straightening out there friends then them. Our home is a place they all come to just for somewhere to hang out. Its not uncommon to have 15-30 kids here on a sturday night when we are home. If the kids want a big todo we tell them to invite the parents too and many have come. (have big old house and lots of outside) All greet us as mom and dad. We dont allow any bullshit here but if they are just being kids more power to them.
I do what I can for everyone of them if they ask. They can talk free and in confidence here about the pressures around them, drugs, alcohol, girls, boys and they do. If they are messed up I tell them so. I also tell them if I were their parent I might beat the %^^&# out of them or why their folks might do what they do. In the end they are allways laughing. A side benefit is I often get hugs around town from kids who I cant even remember there names
Respect deserves respect.
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catlind
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #23 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 11:25pm » |
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Well, as you said, the past can't be undone. Ideally you teach your children that they cannot manipulate you in that way. I taught mine by telling them on the first (and so far only) occassion that they said they were going to call children's services, that there would be no need for them to dial. I made it absolutely clear that *I* would dial the number for them, because when I was done with them they were going to need it. Obviously, it's far to late for that for this particular parent, but maybe other parents can use that tactic to avoid this kind of situation. If you raise a baby tiger, it will grow up to eat you.
Now, for the present situations. First, since the 9 year old is determined to use the system as a threat and weapon against her mother, the mother needs to turn that scenario around on that girl. You said the 9 year old is constantly hitting and beating up on the mother. Our present society has made it impossible for the mother to use corporal punishment without the child being taken away. No mother wants to willingly turn over their child to children's services, even though, in my opinion, the child deserves it. What she CAN do however, is the next time the child decides to start hitting and punching, make sure the child gets at least one, preferrably several, good contacts to the face. Then she needs to call the police and press charges. Perhaps if she has any friends or contacts with the local police she can do so in a way that will just rattle the kid, but failing that, I truly believe she should call the cops and file a complaint on the assault. The little brat needs to know how it feels on the other side of the manipulation and threats. As hard as that is going to be -- I don't know any mother that would find it easy or without great pain in her heart, it's what needs to be done. The mother is doing NO favours to her daughter by not standing up for herself. That girl is in for a lifetime of trouble in so many ways if the mother doesn't take a very decisive action that has dire consequences and impact. My opinion on this is just that, my opinion, and I'm sure it will be disagreed with on a large scale, but if she wants any hope of turning that girl around and setting her on a better path in life, it will require just that kind of severe action.
Same concept applies to the 16 year old. My 16 year old nephew is going through exactly the same kind of issues right now. His mother has tried the 'loving' approach to my brothers complete disagreement. He wanted to turn him in, before things got too far out of hand. Sadly, because they didn't take that kind of action in the beginning, the police have taken that action on their own and there is nothing my brother can do to protect his son now.
The parents of the 16 year old need to put their foot down and insist he not go to the keg party. If the kid doesn't comply, they need to call the cops and tell them there is a keg party with minors in attendance and drinking.
The hardest thing in the world to do as a parent, is to turn your own kids in. Not doing it is not being a good parent, it's being a cowardly parent. All children, of all ages, need to learn that there are consequences to their actions, and that if they continue on a path of destruction, the parents will be forced to make them answer for their actions in whatever means necessary.
This is my opinion, as a parent and as an outsider watching what has happened to an intelligent young boy who didn't have that kind of responsibility put on him. Take it or leave it, but there isn't much room for anything else based on the information that you've provided.
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_Lee_
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Please stop Wilma.........
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Re: Parenting advice, what to do???
« Reply #24 on: Apr 8th, 2006, 11:45pm » |
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Have the kid checked for drugs, pot won't normally cause that type of behavior, Chrystal meth will every time. 9 years old is absotutely where that shit starts.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2006, 11:58pm by _Lee_ » |
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