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Topic: 6 Ports = 21 Ports (Read 815 times) |
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karma
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #1 on: Feb 25th, 2006, 10:42am » |
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Floridian,
The deal stinks but lets be clear. This deal is for the managment of locally owned terminals not the purchase.
I assume any port owner ie local govt. can review the managemnt contracts and decide if they will continue or not.
It may actually be a smart move if the Bush cronies say sure go ahead to save face with the UAE and then let the local boys be the bad guys.
But I doubt it!
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chewy
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Bush recently had a revelation. He said we are addicted to oil and need to explore alternatives. (Welcome to planet Earth)
This is a quote from Lee so take it for what its worth.
Quote:| Guess what, UAE / Dubai is setting on the largest known natural gas reserve in the world. Oil and gas companie's from the USA have spent billions to produce this gas and they haven't even scratched the surface. |
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Suddenly we are getting into bed with the UAE. Connect the dots.
Assuming Lee's quote is true then if you check the NYSE I'll bet you will find a lot of the old guard republican oil men have recently made some big investments in natural gas.
This isn't about national security or providing alternative energy sources. Its the same old thing. Making the almight dollar. Money going to money.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2006, 11:37am by chewy » |
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burnt-toast
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #3 on: Feb 25th, 2006, 11:35am » |
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It's just more reason to question what backroom deals this administration has cooked with the UAE.
The obvious plan
- Conduct secret meetings and preapprove a deal
made in hell with (regardless of what this
administration insists) a potential enemy to manage a
vital asset of this country and key security point.
- Report smaller initial components of the deal
- Address issues associated with the smaller
components of the deal
- Force the deal through under these false pretenses
- Inform us that the deal was really over three times
larger than initially reported
- Blame everyone for not understanding the entire
deal and insist "we assumed everyon knew this"
- Force the entire deal forward right under our noses
The fact that this administration would hide the true details of the entire deal from both the American people and other government officials should be reason for serious concern that lead to calls for resignations and maybe even impeachment proceedings.
Any American still believing that this country isn't being sold out by elected representatives (for whatever they or their parties receive for their treason,) has really got their head buried in the sand.
Our national debt is out of control - and climbing. Our trade deficit has reached disasterous levels - and climbing. Out tax burden is absurd. National Security is gathing intelligence on American citizens while our boarders are not secured, illegals from all over the world are permitted to roam freely throughout our country.
Our manufacturing base is essentially gone - primarily outsourced to communist nation using their new massive flow of capital to build one of the worlds largest/most sophisticated armies during peacetime? Potential enemies are being deemed worthy of managing our ports - vital economic/security assets of our country. If U.S. finds itself forced into a large scale war - we'll need to import from our most powerful potential enemy using ports managed by a nation that at best is a National Security risk. Honestly this average Joe is seriously confused and frightened.
The American people have become the laughing stock of the rest of the world. We are the so-called "free people" who allow our elected reprersentatives to sell us and our futures out for personal and/or politiucal gain with barely a whimper.
It time for the American people to end the careers of every "Career Politician"
Tom
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| « Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2006, 12:04pm by burnt-toast » |
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #4 on: Feb 25th, 2006, 11:43am » |
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Karma, I could be wrong, but i though it was the purchase of the actual port, and then the owner can choose how its managed. If they want to manage it themselves they can, or they can hire some other company to manage it.
Is that wrong?
BMonee
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floridian
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on Feb 25th, 2006, 10:42am, karma wrote:Floridian,
The deal stinks but lets be clear. This deal is for the managment of locally owned terminals not the purchase.
I assume any port owner ie local govt. can review the managemnt contracts and decide if they will continue or not.
It may actually be a smart move if the Bush cronies say sure go ahead to save face with the UAE and then let the local boys be the bad guys.
But I doubt it!
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If you opened a store in a mall somewhere, and decided to sell it, the mall would still own the physical space. If you extend the port analogy, you don't really own the business and couldn't sell it, you would just be selling your inventory and rights to manage the business! But I think that is stretching things. And it doesn't really deflect from the fact that running day to day port operations are sensitive in terms of national security. I am not confident that the local governments will have any significant say in how the company is run.
The UAE doesn't get high marks for cooperating on terrorism, but this deal has a clause where they promise to cooperate in the future if they are allowed to buy the company that manages the ports.
Administration officials said the deal was approved without the required review because there were no concerns raised as different departments were notified of the deal - that turns out to be another lie: the Homeland Security Department objected at first to the deal, but that objection was 'smoothed out' by the White House.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1661530
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| « Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2006, 1:31pm by floridian » |
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burnt-toast
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #6 on: Feb 25th, 2006, 6:19pm » |
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FOR SALE
One Slightly used country - still a lot of good miles left in it.
Available in parts or in whole, too many features to list.
Current leaders eager to to negotiate - make offer and we'll see what we can work out.
Current tennants generally reserved with just periodic and short lived bursts of pride and dignity. Any reasonably skilled dictator should have no difficulty maintaining control.
Interested parties with cash only please.
Call 1-USA-FOR-SALE to obtain complete asset listings or to reserve your opportunity to bid on choice parcels. Don't miss out call 1-USA-FOR-SALE now, there won't be much left tomorrow.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2006, 9:14pm by burnt-toast » |
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MJ
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #7 on: Feb 25th, 2006, 8:26pm » |
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Heres how I heard it.
The FBI objected strongly to the Dubai ports deal.
Homeland Security then took over and objected to some security issues in the deal
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The security issues were the fact that all port records would not be stored in the USA but in Dubai.
The white house then took over and smoothed out the security issues by allowing the records to be stored in Dubai thus smoothing out the deal for the management and control of 2/3rds of the access to this country.
Controlling the flow of the majority of military equipment, sensitive goods and commodities. Oil and natural gas into the country as well as a large percentage of our economy will soon rest in the hand of the United Arab Emirates.
In the end local goverments will have no say as this involves national security and they will be powerless.
The only hope then really does lie with the labor unions which are trying to be busted as we speak.
In defense of the U.A.E. it was they who put a temporary delay on the deal due to the unprecedented furor that has risen, not the government of the USA that we have all come to know and trust.
The delay is in the hopes that like Katrina we will become bored with it and then the deal will complete unnoticed.
I count 23 ports plus the largest independent port service, stevedoring and terminal operator on the east and gulf coasts. Control of this portion of the business will vastly extend the reach and oversight of the deal.
•Corpus Christi, Texas
•Freeport, Texas
•Galveston, Texas
•Houston, Texas
•Beaumont, Texas
•Port Arthur, Texas
•New Orleans, Louisiana
•Lake Charles, Louisiana
•Baton Rouge, Louisiana
•Gulfport, Mississippi
•Norfolk, Virginia
•Newport News, Virginia
•Portsmouth, Virginia
•Wilmington, Delaware
•Miami, Florida
•Camden, New Jersey
•Newark, New Jersey
•Davisville, Rhode Island
•Baltimore, Maryland
•Boston, Massachusetts
•Portland, Maine
•Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
•New York
Much of our allready outsourced manufactured goods will be returning to the USA through these ports.
However Japan and the pacific rim goods wont be affected too much as most of their goods and commodities arrive on the west coast wich is controlled by ????
Now that I think about it what the hell do we control anymore? Agriculture? Nope. Transportation? Nope. Military? Nope? Textiles, Toys, wool, religion, oil, pharmacia, entertainment, steel, minerals, skiiing, shopping malls, etc...? Nope, nope and more nope.
The only thing we seem to have a pretty good handle on is financial services and the flow of money by ownership of credit and debt for every american.
Oh yeah we still have some american ownership in one of our beers. Thats Coors beer cause noone else in the world will drink the stuff.
Looks like Bill Fords family owns the last american conglomerate. (or at least 40% of it)
Buy a Ford wholly made in america. Bet ya cant find just one.
Just my humble opinion.
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MJ
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Lizzie2
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #8 on: Feb 26th, 2006, 2:07am » |
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This stuff makes me pretty damn nervous!
Philadelphia plans to place a bid to host the Summer Olympics in 2016 (I think??) And we're going to be one of these open ports... Say we put events in the Link - the link has one side wide open to 95 - a cop friend of my dad's was explaining how the design of that stadium and it's proxmity to 95 could actually be a homeland security disaster.
Makes ya nervous just to think about all the things that could go on in one place!!
Regardless of exactly how much control Dubai would have over our ports - I think one issue is, without question, very clear. We have tons of people who are entrepreneurs (sp?) in this country. Lots of people interested in becoming CEO's or even starting up small/large businesses and running with it. Very motivated and creative people.
Yet we've outsourced so many jobs to other countries for cheap labor. What has that done for us? Kill morale? Steal jobs?
There are plenty of people HERE who could have run with this deal, if given the opportunity. Why do we have to give away yet one more thing that should be owned by us?
This whole thing just stinks....
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Melissa
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Out of curiousity, doesn anyone know how many ports U.S. companies own in other countries?
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BarbaraD
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #10 on: Feb 26th, 2006, 9:24am » |
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-0-
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maffumatt
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I bet halliburton could do the job.
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TomM
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #13 on: Feb 26th, 2006, 11:46am » |
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To quote Gov. Arnold from Meet The Press this AM: "We live in a global economy and part of this economy involves terrorism." This may over simplify it but I think the media is fanning the flames of fear. It's not a selling of the port to foreigners it's the operation of it. BTW---I believe the previous 'owner' of these operations were foreign, too.
From Military.com http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,89378,00.html
TomM
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burnt-toast
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #14 on: Feb 26th, 2006, 12:41pm » |
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I see the old posi-spin machines reving up again folks. This isn't your average business deal involving indepent corporations. It's a deal that sells strategic port management to a nation with direct ties to terrorists and organizations deemed terroristic by the very same administration that now claims the deal is a non-event.
It's Bull$hit, historically the UAE was never a trustworthy U.S. ally, but recently began playing nice-nice with this administration and using it's greed to gain favor. The UAE's motives and more importantly committment to protect U.S. interests are questionable at best.
As for our so-called leaders.
Dubai Ports World (DPW) – owned by the United Arab Emirates invested 8 billion in the Carlyle Group. George Bush Sr. was a senior advisor in Carlyle and lots of little Bush’s own interests in Carlyle Group.
Neil Bush reportedly received funding from the UAE for his software company. Treasury Sec John Snow was chairman of CSX a company that sold its port operations business to DPW for over 1 billion.
G.W. Bush’s new appointee as U.S. Maritime Administrator, a position overseeing U.S. port operations is David Sanborn. Sanborn was most recently a DPW executive. DPW hired Bob Dole and two other Republican ex-senators to lobby Congress and paid over $750k to lobbying firms in the last year.
Is it any wonder that G.W. Bush insists he didn’t know anything about the deal until it was done? Considering he and his family’s extensive financial ties to the UAE and DPW, admitting he was aware of the deal would be a disaster. Sounds like the famous line by Sgt. Schultz “I know nothing”. Old G.W. needed to keep some distance between himself and this deal. To avoid scrutiny it became a secret review - so that he could claim ignorance.
Whether it’s Halliburton or Carlyle Group this deal, like so many other recent deals simply generate personal wealth for many of our so-called leaders who are capitalizing on their political power.
Again it appears that the good of our country and National Security must take a back seat to our industrious leader’s desires to make more money.
Tom
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| « Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2006, 12:41pm by burnt-toast » |
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BarbaraD
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #15 on: Feb 26th, 2006, 12:43pm » |
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We've got to get people out to vote and get these people out of politics before we don't HAVE a vote to cast!!!
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Charlie
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #16 on: Feb 26th, 2006, 7:21pm » |
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Port security isn't what a corporation does. That's what governments are for. You have to wonder what a corporation owned and managed by a country with a less than terrible record relating to its terrorist history, would have in our port security.  
It's like relying on Columbia to handle drug trafficking or Mexico to keep its eye on illegal immigraiton.
Not long ago Congress authorized about $175 million for port security and Bush & Co. whittled it down to something like $46 million which is less than pre-9/11 levels. (Buffalo News) the other day. 
Charlie
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_Lee_
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #17 on: Feb 26th, 2006, 9:58pm » |
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I would think we could kick there ass out for just about any reason we could come up with. This is the question, do we set here on our asses and run out of natural gas or do we play the game. I happen to be one of those old guard Democrats that invested in this UAE gas find the day I heard about it, why, there not making any more. Not likely to ever find a deposit like this again. Same reason your paying $2.50 for gasoline. maybe $3.50 next year. My natural gas bill went from $80-120 a month to $250-300 a month in 1 year. These Arabs aren't stupid, if we want there gas, they manage some of our ports legally by buying a foreign company. Big Deal. Their role is like paying a toll on the turnpike, that's about it. After they pay the local and federal taxes they make maybe $.50 on the dollar. Let them do it or we will really fuck up the environment burning wood to stay warm. By the way we are not the only market for their gas.
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/15ca7342-a6f1-11da-b12c-0000779e2340.html
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| « Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2006, 11:25pm by _Lee_ » |
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Kevin_M
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #18 on: Feb 26th, 2006, 11:48pm » |
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Detroit wasn't on their list and isn't probably a big port nowadays anymore but it would be a good ploy now to sneak something destructive through there in one of them 40 foot shipping boxcars, and then have the new 21 port management say, "It wasn't one of the ports WE manage." Nice alibi.
even excluded it seems uncomfortable here. 
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Kirk
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #19 on: Feb 27th, 2006, 7:09am » |
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Without getting into conspiracy theories, or the natural gas bs.
This is a contract to run cargo terminal operations. No ups, no extras.
Hell, we have military bases next to their port.
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burnt-toast
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #20 on: Feb 27th, 2006, 8:33am » |
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Lee - seeing how this is only about the possibility of making money on UAE natural gas resverves...
and
Kirk - seeing how this is simply your average business deal that turns major port operations over to a foreign nation...
Lets do it!
For a while there I believed National Security was the key issue. You're confirmation that the potential for wealth is there if we treat this as just another average business transaction has really helped me get my priorities straight.
Money can make any pig's ear look like a silk purse. Money is the key issue, everything else must take a back seat.
I hadn't realized it was so simple with so little is at stake. I'm glad you could set me straight on this little issue. For a while there I was concerned we were being sold out. Go Figure.
Tom
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TomM
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #21 on: Feb 27th, 2006, 10:42am » |
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on Feb 27th, 2006, 8:33am, burnt-toast wrote:Kirk - seeing how this is simply your average business deal that turns major port operations over to a foreign nation...
I hadn't realized it was so simple with so little is at stake. I'm glad you could set me straight on this little issue. For a while there I was concerned we were being sold out. Go Figure.
Tom
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It's NOT a foreign nation owning the port! It's company from a foreign land, I.E. not withing our borders, running the port. My oh my, aren't we paranoid.
I see this like Verizon setting up communcation towers in the mid east. I ASSUME [dont' shoot me for this] Verizon is there and that's a good thing, right?
Have you ever bought BP gasoline? That's British Petroleum, right. A FORIEGNER!
I'm not a spin-doctor and I rarely agree w/ Dubya. I was watching Tim Russert, as I do every Sunday morning, and thought Arnold's statement was appropriate. We do live in a global economy.
I think you are paranoind.
TomM
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| « Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2006, 11:05am by TomM » |
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imnotbub
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #22 on: Feb 27th, 2006, 11:50am » |
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My wife has been telling me for the past few years that we should be worrying about the state of the country. That we are setting ourselves up for a major dissruption in the way we are used to living. She being from Cuba, I took what she said with a grain of salt, I saying that it could not happen here, there are too many checks and balances built into the system. Well, as it turns out, the checks and balances are starting to crack a bit. I am starting to worry about what kind of country we are leaving for our children. With the only growing industries in the nation being Casino gambling and fast food, I shudder to think what can be in store. Maybe we can let India run the ports from offices in Bombay. Hell, they run everything else from there. 
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burnt-toast
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #23 on: Feb 27th, 2006, 12:43pm » |
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on Feb 27th, 2006, 10:42am, TomM wrote:
It's NOT a foreign nation owning the port! It's company from a foreign land, I.E. not withing our borders, running the port. My oh my, aren't we paranoid.
I see this like Verizon setting up communcation towers in the mid east. I ASSUME [dont' shoot me for this] Verizon is there and that's a good thing, right?
Have you ever bought BP gasoline? That's British Petroleum, right. A FORIEGNER!
I'm not a spin-doctor and I rarely agree w/ Dubya. I was watching Tim Russert, as I do every Sunday morning, and thought Arnold's statement was appropriate. We do live in a global economy.
I think you are paranoind.
TomM |
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TomM - DPW is owned by The UAE - it is NOT a private enterprise. Comparing Verizon to DPW is like compairing Gorillas to Chimpanzees, they may have simular features and traits but clearly not the same creatures.
Our massive trade deficit leads me to belive that our so-called "Trading Partners" around the globe view "Global Economy" as nothing more than opportunity to dump on American markets.
Regardless of what Arnold and other misguided leaders believe, a strong economy requires fair and balanced trade. Someone obviously was asleep when covering this topic in Economics 101. Without balance between imports and exports the U.S. economy will be destroyed by this short sighted version of a "Global Economy".
Am I paranoid? Given the events of 9/11 and the current state of affairs in the entire Middle East combined with The UAE's past history - you bet I am. You don't offer the keys to your house to someone who threatens your family.
Tom
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Re: 6 Ports = 21 Ports
« Reply #24 on: Feb 27th, 2006, 1:09pm » |
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on Feb 27th, 2006, 8:33am, burnt-toast wrote:Lee - seeing how this is only about the possibility of making money on UAE natural gas resverves...
and
Kirk - seeing how this is simply your average business deal that turns major port operations over to a foreign nation...
Lets do it!
For a while there I believed National Security was the key issue. You're confirmation that the potential for wealth is there if we treat this as just another average business transaction has really helped me get my priorities straight.
Money can make any pig's ear look like a silk purse. Money is the key issue, everything else must take a back seat.
I hadn't realized it was so simple with so little is at stake. I'm glad you could set me straight on this little issue. For a while there I was concerned we were being sold out. Go Figure.
Tom
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My investment was made long before the current debate over ports came about. However this huge gas deposit is vital to our continued economic growth. The United States would not be the same country without cheap energy. They trust us enough to park war ships in their ports with enough fire power to trash their entire country. I'm not sure they even have a Navy. This also serves as a deterrent to the Arabs upset with them for them helping us during this Iraq mess. I seem to recall some home grown terrorists, they don't all come from the middle east. It is also a perfect launching point if we have to give Iran a little spanking.
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