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Topic: I can't believe this (Read 1466 times) |
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BobG
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I can't believe this
« on: Feb 15th, 2006, 7:25am » |
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Nobody has started a thread about VP Dick C. shooting his lawyer.
He's getting bashed pretty good on the evening news and in the papers, but none here has even mentioned it.
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Melissa
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How's it feel to be the 1st one Bob?? 
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BobG
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #2 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 7:36am » |
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Good! Damn good. 
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BarbaraD
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #3 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 7:43am » |
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I was waiting for you to do it. Now the guy has had a heart attack and he's sorry about it.
Heck, and I didn't even know it was "lawyer" season.... 
Hugs BD
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Jasmyn
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #4 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 7:48am » |
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Sorry Bob, I'm from SA where it is hunting season every day.
http://news.google.co.za/nwshp?tab=wn&topic=n
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Jazz 
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maffumatt
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So they opened a season on layers in Texas? Where can I buy my tags?
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vig
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #6 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 8:33am » |
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A Texas Parks and Wildlife Department report found the accident was caused by what it called the "hunter's judgment factor."
no apology necessary?
what a guy!!!
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E-Double
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #7 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 8:39am » |
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What happens if the dude passes away?
What if it wasn't the VP?
Was this really an accident or was he trying to shut him up? J/k!!
Accidents happen huh!
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pattik
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #8 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 8:43am » |
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Plus, when told to go away and come back the next day to do the questioning, the cops said 'sure Mr. VP, anything you say'. 
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burnt-toast
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #9 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 9:00am » |
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on Feb 15th, 2006, 7:25am, BobG wrote:Nobody has started a thread about VP Dick C. shooting his lawyer.
He's getting bashed pretty good on the evening news and in the papers, but none here has even mentioned it.
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I was just waiting to see if there are any investigative reporters left that actualy do some homework. You know, get past the superficial crap (hunting accident & jokes) to report on some potentially jucy stuff.
This may just be another careless and stupid hunting accident. But with all the Abramoff generated fears flying around Washington, think about the potential...
The V.P. of the U.S. goes on a hunting trip, on a private ranch, with a wealthy campaign contributor.
Turns out this is no ordinary campaign contributor. He is also a well known Lawyer/Lobbyist.
The V.P. of the U.S., reportedly an experienced hunter,
breaks the cardianl rule of upland gamebird hunting. He shoots into the clearly defined shooting lane of a fellow hunter.
Not just into - but nearly across a shooting lane that turns out to belong to our wealthy campaign contributor/lawyer/lobbyest who is subsequently shot at just 30 yards in an open field.
If there are any real investigative reporters left out there...
wouldn't this make for the start of story line too good to pass up?
Tom
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| « Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2006, 9:02am by burnt-toast » |
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Lizzie2
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #11 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 9:22am » |
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Last night, I was talking to my boyfriend Joe on the way to work. I know I've mentioned he's a med student, and we were talking about how the bullet fragment had embolized to the guy's heart to cause the heart attack. Joe said that in an article he'd read about the incident, the hospital said there were anywhere from 6 to 200 fragments that remain inside this guy, but they aren't concerned about it.
Is that strange to anyone else?
First off, I'll admit I know nothing at all about hunting nor the type of ammo used or the type of gun that was used. Does it shoot one bullet that breaks into pieces or does it spray bullets out in an attempt to hit what you aimed for? If the bullet breaks apart, does it break apart after leaving the gun or after getting inside the target? I know those questions sound REALLY dumb, but I was trying to understand how there could be anywhere from 6 to 200 fragments inside the guy.
One already embolized and caused the heart attack...why are they not worried about the possible 200 other ones?? Only takes one...
This is very odd to me...
Any hunters or gun owners able to explain this to me so it makes more sense?
Carrie
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sandie99
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #13 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 9:39am » |
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Carrie,
if that happened to me, I'd be scared as hell! 6 to 200 fragments, you say? I'd be too afraid to move...
Sanna
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Bob P
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #14 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 10:03am » |
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Bird shot is a shotgun shell that sprays 100s of small round (smaller than BBs) balls to kill the bird.
They'd probably do more damage trying to dig them out than to leave them.
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burnt-toast
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #15 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 10:12am » |
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on Feb 15th, 2006, 9:22am, Lizzie2 wrote:
One already embolized and caused the heart attack...why are they not worried about the possible 200 other ones?? Only takes one...
This is very odd to me...
Any hunters or gun owners able to explain this to me so it makes more sense?
Carrie |
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Carrie,
He was shot with with pellets (bb's) from a shotgun shell which is not a bullet or single projectile. These rounds consist of up to hundreds of bb's that vary in size. BB's for shooting small upland gamebirds are even much smaller than bb's you typically associate with bb guns. Some not much larger than large grains of sand.
Shotguns typically are choked - meaning they have a device inserted into the front of the barrel to disperse the bb's in wide or narrow patterns as they leave the barrel. Think of it as creating various sized cones that bb's travel inside of - bb's leaving the barrel are at the peak of the cone and as the move away they spread out into the base of the cone.
The closer a target to the front of the cone - the more bb's it will absorb at higher velocity. Because of their small size these bb's lose velosity quickly but 30 yards is an optimal range for the 28 gauge shotgun that was reportedly in use - meaning the distance at which high numbers of bb's are likely to strike a target at peak velosity.
Keep in mind that although always potentially lethal a 28 gauge round (very light gauge round) is designed to down small game not large animals. That's why most of the damage was superficial, however, because the hunter was in an optimal range some bb's obviously penetrated deeper into his body. Because they're so small bb's could even have penetrated some vital organs without causing enough damage to be life threatening.
Tom
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TomM
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #16 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 10:15am » |
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on Feb 15th, 2006, 9:22am, Lizzie2 wrote:Any hunters or gun owners able to explain this to me so it makes more sense?
Carrie |
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Sure, I'll take a stab at this.
Bird shot used for quail hunting is about a size 7 shot. The larger the number of the shot the smaller the size. Double ought [00] is the size of a .32 cal slug or the size of your pinky nail; roughly. Size 7 shot is about twice the size of a pin head.
Go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdshot
They are tiny and well over 300 in each shotgun shell.
Does that help?
TomM
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| « Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2006, 10:22am by TomM » |
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Kevin_M
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #17 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 10:15am » |
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on Feb 15th, 2006, 9:22am, Lizzie2 wrote:the hospital said there were anywhere from 6 to 200 fragments that remain inside this guy, but they aren't concerned about it.
Is that strange to anyone else?
First off, I'll admit I know nothing at all about hunting nor the type of ammo used or the type of gun that was used. Does it shoot one bullet that breaks into pieces or does it spray bullets out in an attempt to hit what you aimed for? |
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Quote:| The smallest pellet size normally used for hunting is the size 8, typically used for game the size of quail or dove. Size 7 1/2 or 6 are used for many upland species such as grouse or pheasants. Size 5 and 4 are often recommended for pheasants shot at greater distance (larger pellets, because they are heavier, retain their velocity better and so killing power over distance is greater than the smaller sizes), where lead is legal, #4s or 5s are commonly used for ducks, with lead 2s or the still larger BB size used for the largest of birds such as Canada geese. |
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Quote:shot size 6 7.5 8
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dia.(in.) .109 .094 .089
dia(mm) 2.77 2.39 2.26
appr #/1oz. 225 350 410 |
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Sorry Bob and Tom(s), didn't see your post while I was trying to arrange this legibly for 15 minutes. 
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| « Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2006, 10:41am by Kevin_M » |
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Lizzie2
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #18 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 10:24am » |
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Thanks you guys! Makes a lot more sense now. I haven't read anything on how they speculate the man had the heart attack other than that the bullet travelled to his heart, which is how they put it on KYW radio last night. Hearing that seemed to Joe and I that this meant one of the pellets had embolized...similar to a pulmonary or fat embolism, which can occur in the body naturally. So I took that to mean that the pellet must have somehow entered the blood stream and been carried to the heart, but like I said, I haven't read any actual articles about how the attack happened.
Given the small size of the pellet, I guess that's pretty imagineable (sp?), but probably would have had to land in a vessel fairly close to the heart to not have gotten caught in venous valves or smaller capillary vessels.
Unless of course, the radio's statement of "traveled to the heart" isn't referring to an emboli, but rather that somehow with movement or by seeking treatment in some way, the pellet had penetrated through tissues to reach the heart - but I'd think the blood vessel way would be more likely!
Wonder how they know for sure none of the others went into vessels or deep enough to do the same thing...I'd imagine it would be hard to locate all of these on imaging scans!!
One of my good friends from the ER came over to my apartment once, and he was telling me he'd forgotten that he had his bb gun in his backpack on the way over. He took it out, and he was laughing at me because my face went white as a ghost. He told me that it couldn't actually hurt me, but he put it away because I was obviously nervous about him having it in the apartment! Well...since my cousin was killed in a gun accident, just the site of them kind of freaks me out!
Then my roomie later told me that when her former NJ state trooper boyfriend was over, he'd had his gun with him if he was coming from work. The things I never knew!! haha
Anyways...thanks for the explanation!!
Carrie
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Melissa
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #19 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 10:32am » |
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on Feb 15th, 2006, 10:03am, Bob P wrote:Bird shot is a shotgun shell that sprays 100s of small round (smaller than BBs) balls to kill the bird.
They'd probably do more damage trying to dig them out than to leave them. |
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Exactly.
My brother in law has to have some remain inside his arm due to it being worse to remove it.
Did I mention his brother shot him??
Ohhhhhh that was a fun day!
BTW, these accidents DO happen. I happen to think the evil media is blowing everything out of proportion, as usual.  (yes! it was a conspiracy! all lawyers will be terminated!)
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| « Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2006, 10:34am by Melissa » |
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chewy
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #20 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 11:12am » |
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Intelligence reports indicated the Lawyer had WMDs in his coat. Cheney shot him in the interests of national defense.
ATTA BOY DICK!
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| « Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2006, 11:15am by chewy » |
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burnt-toast
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #21 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 12:03pm » |
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There have been numerous instances where someone shot this way has died or lost a limb much later when a pellet traveled/lodged in the lungs, heart, neck, or blocked the blood supply of an extremity.
So called harmless BB guns have have also accounted for deaths and or serious physical imparment. Parents who buy them for their children and do not supervise thier activites or teach the importance of gun safety are making a potentially deadly mistake.
Every gun must be handled as if it is a deadly weapon.
Tom
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Would the owner of the propane torch, egg beater, pipe expander and vise grips please claim these items. They're lodged in my head and I need the space.
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nani
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #22 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 12:09pm » |
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on Feb 15th, 2006, 11:12am, chewy wrote:Intelligence reports indicated the Lawyer had WMDs in his coat. Cheney shot him in the interests of national defense.
ATTA BOY DICK! |
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I always thought he was a trigger happy little bastard. Too bad he had "better things to do" than go to Viet Nam.
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Melissa
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #23 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 12:13pm » |
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on Feb 15th, 2006, 12:03pm, burnt-toast wrote:
Every gun must be handled as if it is a deadly weapon.
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Exactamundo! Same thing with a car. Betcha most people don't think of THAT though.
In my family, gun handling and saftey is taught as soon as our kids show signs of understanding and interaction. My 2 year old son knows not to point his toy shotgun & rifle at people. He does have a fun time pointing it at the buck mounts on the walls though.
Jesse (hubby) takes them out with him to do target practice and teaches them just not how to shoot the gun, but how to hold it, use the locks, safety, walk with it, etc. He comes from a VERY long line of hunters, and with that has come tons of education.
Anyhoo, even I am going with Lily this year to take Hunter's Safety.
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TxBasslady
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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #24 on: Feb 15th, 2006, 12:23pm » |
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on Feb 15th, 2006, 10:03am, Bob P wrote:Bird shot is a shotgun shell that sprays 100s of small round (smaller than BBs) balls to kill the bird.
They'd probably do more damage trying to dig them out than to leave them. |
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.....and to add......the smaller than BB size pellets, or balls, or whatever you want to call 'em are made of iron.
They don't contain any of the good stuff used in our handguns/service weapons.
Too bad the news media didn't show this kind of concern for the Vietnam Vets who returned home with all that damn metal shrapnel in their bodies. Nobody gave a damn......  That shrapnel was a death sentence for thousands....but they didn't get national media coverage.
.....and I don't even want to get started on that, so I'll back up..take a deep breath and shut up. 
Jean
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