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karma
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freedom of the press
« on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 9:19am » |
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Quote:| One of the images showed the Prophet Mohammad wearing a turban shaped like a bomb with a lit fuse. |
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I don't understand why Muslims are so upset. The truth sometimes hurts but that is the perception most infadels have of them. When are these a$$hole clerics going to step up to the plate and take responsibility for their followers.
Firings or repercussions for publishing these caricatures is wrong! Dead wrong!!
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| « Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2006, 9:20am by karma » |
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imnotbub
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #1 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 10:07am » |
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I by no means want to sound like I am a terrorist supporter, but this is a real touchy subject. The radicals are the only ones in the news, but no Muslim is happy about this, I assure you. To have any likeness of Mohammed in print, or anywhere else, is REAL TABOO in their eyes. It is a real no no. I think that wilth times the way they are, the world should educate themselves some and not throw fuel on the fire. I also think it's important to remember that, just like religion, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' when it comes to how people choose to live. We as westerners may think their ways are backwards, but they think we are barreling straight towards eternal doom. A freedom is only a freedom as long as it doesn't infringe on someone elses.
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pattik
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #2 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 10:45am » |
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on Feb 3rd, 2006, 10:07am, imnotbub wrote:| A freedom is only a freedom as long as it doesn't infringe on someone elses. |
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Bullpucky!!...by that defintion, freedom could not exist in our diverse and over-populated world. Someone will always find a way to be offended about something. Our freedoms as individuals will be in big trouble when we start telling the media what they can or cannot print. If the hypersensitive religious extremists don't like it, they don't have to look at it or listen to it. If I were aware of someone in my religious group murdering people who disagreed, I would certainly not stand by and let the world think we were all like that.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2006, 11:08am by pattik » |
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imnotbub
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #3 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 10:59am » |
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on Feb 3rd, 2006, 10:45am, pattik wrote: If the hypersensitive religious extremists don't like it, they don't have to look at it or listen to it.  |
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While I agree with this statement, I have to again point out that it is not just the extremeists that are offended by this. It is a fundamental tennant of the religion. I was just suggesting that we should be sympathetic to those that have different ideals. As for the extremists that are using this as an excuse to murder, line them up, ready, aim, FIRE! 
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Life may not be good, but I think it beats the alternative, and if it doesn't, we'll find out soon enough
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karma
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #4 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 11:00am » |
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imnotbub,
This isn't about anyones religion. Its about the right of expression. Religious tabbo's have absolutely nothing to do with a persons right to speak or write about or caricaturize or criticize religious or sacred beliefs. If Muslims are unhappy with the drawings fine, let them protest peacfully. But don't allow threats to jeopardize western fundamental rights of expression.
Quote:| To have any likeness of Mohammed in print, or anywhere else, is REAL TABOO in their eyes. It is a real no no. |
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Fair enough but that is an Islamic taboo, Nothing more and nothing less. Killing innocent men, women and children is a tabboo everywhere else in the world but that sure doesn't stop many Muslims from doing it.
The fact that Muslim leaders cannot or will not reign in or at least distance themselves from atrocities carried out in the name of Islam does nothing but fuel the misconceptions about Islam. You say no muslim is happy about whats going on? Gimme a break! You should have said no muslim is willing to speak out against it for fear of loosing there life.
Fuck em if they can't take a joke!
(added)
but I will respect the leaders and followers when they take a stand against atrocities carried out in the name of Islam.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2006, 11:04am by karma » |
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E-Double
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #5 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 11:04am » |
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on Feb 3rd, 2006, 10:45am, pattik wrote:
I like Bob D's version: "freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
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I don't dig any of it.....espcially the above quote.
It was written by Kris Kristofferson
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pattik
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #6 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 11:08am » |
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You're right, E, thanks for pointing out my idiocy..I'll remove it. Afterall, that's really important to the subject matter of this thread. 
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| « Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2006, 11:20am by pattik » |
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The voyage of discovery is not about seeking new landscapes, it's about having new eyes--Marcel Proust
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Melissa
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"And an orator said, Speak to us of Freedom.
And he answered:
At the city gate and by your fireside I have seen you prostrated yourself and worship your own freedom,
Even as slaves humble themselves before a tyrant and praise him though he slays them.
Ay, in the grove of the temple and in the shadow of the citadel I have seen the freest among you wear their freedom as a yoke and a handcuff.
And my heart bled within me; for you can only be free when even the desire of seeking freedom becomes a harness to you, and when you cease to speak of freedom as a goal and a fulfilment.
You shall be free indeed when your days are not without a care nor your nights without a want and a grief,
But rather when these things girdle your life and yet you rise above them naked and unbound."
-excerpt from "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran
BTW, here is a snip from the recent news article:
Quote:"Whoever defames our prophet should be executed," said Ismail Hassan, 37, a tailor who marched through the pouring rain along with hundreds of others in the West Bank city of Ramallah.
"Bin Laden our beloved, Denmark must be blown up," protesters in Ramallah chanted.
In mosques throughout Palestinian cities, clerics condemned the cartoons. An imam at the Omari Mosque in Gaza City told 9,000 worshippers that those behind the drawings should have their heads cut off.
"If they want a war of religions, we are ready," Hassan Sharaf, an imam in Nablus, said in his sermon.
About 10,000 demonstrators, including gunmen from the Islamic militant group Hamas firing in the air, marched through Gaza City to the Palestinian legislature, where they climbed on the roof, waving green Hamas banners.
"We are ready to redeem you with our souls and our blood our beloved prophet," they chanted. "Down, Down Denmark."
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http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060203/D8FHMTKG2.html
Humanity at it's worst... 
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| « Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2006, 11:27am by Melissa » |
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chewy
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Quote:When are these a$$hole clerics going to step up to the plate and take responsibility for their followers.
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When they cease being terrorists sympathizers. Dont wait under water.
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floridian
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Its really two distinct issues. Freedom of the press, and respect for religion.
When artists dunk crucifixes in urine, that's freedom of speech. It also pisses off many Christians. The musical "Jesus Christ Superstar" also irritated a lot of Christians.
Ultimately, each newspaper makes a business decision - is the editorial content of the cartoons so great that they should be published, in spite of the fact that it will sorely irritate a large number of people? Yes, if they want to live in Europe, those Muslims need to accept that some people will portray their religion negatively. Just like Christians need to accept crucifixes dipped in urine, driving out bad speech with good speech.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2006, 11:31am by floridian » |
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imnotbub
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #10 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 11:56am » |
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This is humanity at it's worst. I, for one, think that we should be able to say and think what ever we want. Stating that, isn't it common sense to realize that by printing these cartoons, it's going to start a shit storm? Why tease a mad dog? I believe these people to be crazy, so I think we should leave them to fester in their own waste and not give them any more motivation. They have enough already. One good thing is that they have moved there sights onto someone else. The problem with this is if the extremists do something there, we will be there to help, just spreading ourselves even thinner. I see a vague parralel here to Rome. Not that we have the same view of things, but that a great civilization spread too thin will crumble. Can't be everywhere at once.
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Life may not be good, but I think it beats the alternative, and if it doesn't, we'll find out soon enough
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floridian
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #11 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 12:32pm » |
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So how about that freedom of speech during the (Police) State of the Union? Two women taken out by the men in blue , one for wearing a 'protest' t-shirt saying "support our troops" and the other wearing a shirt saying "2245 dead, how many more." Women wearing t-shirts are very dangerous and should be locked up.
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pattik
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #12 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 12:34pm » |
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on Feb 3rd, 2006, 12:32pm, floridian wrote:| Women wearing t-shirts are very dangerous and should be locked up. |
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 It's about time someone noticed how dangerous we can be.
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Bob P
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #13 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 2:07pm » |
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Quote:| So how about that freedom of speech during the (Police) State of the Union? Two women taken out by the men in blue , one for wearing a 'protest' t-shirt saying "support our troops" and the other wearing a shirt saying "2245 dead, how many more." Women wearing t-shirts are very dangerous and should be locked up. |
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Exactly who was it that made the law against protesting in the Capitol?
Gotta love the Islamics = Don't portray our profet as violent or we'll kill you!
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
"SHUT UP HUB!"
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SteveY
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #14 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 2:43pm » |
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Touchy subject.
We have lots of them here, would you like some?
Shall I be really controversial?
Naw, best not Helen is here, she might slap my legs again 
Steve
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LeLimey
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #15 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 2:53pm » |
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oh pack that in Steve, I know you love it you kinky bugger! 
Pick a window though cos you're leaving!
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karma
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #16 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 2:56pm » |
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Stevey,
This isn't about Muslims or Islam and there is no reason for this to be touchy.
Most people won't have any problem with Musilms as long as they don't try and blow themselves up in public places or drive airplanes into buildings or threaten entire countries because of a caricature or two.
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E-Double
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #17 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 3:09pm » |
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on Feb 3rd, 2006, 11:08am, pattik wrote:| You're right, E, thanks for pointing out my idiocy..I'll remove it. Afterall, that's really important to the subject matter of this thread. |
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No one called anyone an idiot.
Gimme a break.
I have never gone on any tangent or dissed anyone ever.
Hugs to you.
This dude somes it up!
on Feb 3rd, 2006, 11:30am, floridian wrote:| Its really two distinct issues. Freedom of the press, and respect for religion. |
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I just chose to make a bit of a joke.
Feel good & BTW "Bullpucky" is my new favorite saying
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I can't believe that I have to bang my
Head against this wall again
But the blows they have just a little more
Space in-between them
Gonna take a breath and try again.
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zwibbs/Scott
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #18 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 4:36pm » |
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Ultimately, each newspaper makes a business decision - is the editorial content of the cartoons so great that they should be published, in spite of the fact that it will sorely irritate a large number of people? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------I work for one of the major papers in New York City. At this present time we ALL are losing money, and business. About the only business decision they will make will be whether or not something will sell on that particular day...The cartoon in question shows the prophet Mohammad with a bomb in his turben. Quite honestly that cartoon speaks volumes in what these cowards are doing...killing innocent people in the name of Alla and Mohammad...so I ask what the hell is the problem. If the good people who are muslim are so bothered by this---then they should speak out against these bastards.
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sandie99
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #19 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 5:13pm » |
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There's been lots of talk about that issue back here in the media. And even Finns have been warned to be careful when they travel in Muslim countries because share embassy builduings with Denmark in some places. It really makes one wonder about religion, doesn't it? I believe in God, but I'd be attacking somebody every time I read a joke about God, that would be pretty much I'd be doing... Naturally we're all different. Some are more sensitive about things.
Sanna
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BobG
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #20 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 6:13pm » |
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It's time for me to log off. But, first, I just have to say this.
Fuck the Muslims.
All of them.
If anyone wants to reply................I'll be in Vegas. I'll call you.
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Cerberus
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #21 on: Feb 3rd, 2006, 9:58pm » |
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Quote:| the world should educate themselves some and not throw fuel on the fire. |
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How about vice-versa.
'Bus
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Charlie
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Re: freedom of the press
« Reply #22 on: Feb 4th, 2006, 1:19pm » |
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I'm not too sure we sinners are worth being watched over after the way we use or misuse beliefs. The forgiveness part usually comes only after lots of people are dead or exiled.
To put this in perspective, I'm sure that the stuff in our fictional portrayals of Arabs and Muslims would qualify as bad or worse in the minds of those protesting this stuff. The difference is communication. Bob Hope and Bing Crosby had a smaller audience.
Charlie 
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john_d
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They certainly seem to be using their freedom of speech liberally to stop the freedom of the press, funny how when I went to Saudi we could not even bring a Bible in. These pictures are from London by the way, not the middle east. Fundamentalist Islam is intolerable, what they really believe is we should all be muslims or dead.
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floridian
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on Feb 4th, 2006, 1:34pm, john_d wrote:
Fundamentalist Islam is intolerable, what they really believe is we should all be muslims or dead. |
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Isn't all fundamentalism intolerant and intolerable? Where were the complaints when hundreds of American newspapers were publishing Ann Coulter's column that said: We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war. Now your upset because they are threatening to kill us unless we convert us to their religion? And where was the protest when the politically conservative Jewish fundamentalists in Israel assasinated Yitzhak Rabin, the liberal prime minister? The idiot public went out and replaced him with a political conservative who would favor the fundamentalist view.
On a lighter note, maybe sometimes the fundamentalists are only ridiculous:
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| « Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2006, 4:31pm by floridian » |
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