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Topic: Right to die...... (Read 486 times) |
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maffumatt
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http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=nation_world&id=3508674
Published: October 5, 2005
The John Roberts Court will hear its first high-profile arguments today, when the justices take up a case involving doctor-assisted suicide. Oregon law allows terminally ill people to take lethal drugs to end their lives. But the Bush administration has tried to override this law by threatening to prosecute doctors involved in such cases. The Supreme Court should make it clear that Oregon can allow doctor-assisted suicide.
I believe the right is wrong here. Any input?????????
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| « Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2005, 5:00pm by maffumatt » |
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Jeepgun
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #1 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 5:06pm » |
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Man... It's such a mixed and complex issue... I think if I were a doctor, and I had a patient who had no hope of recovery, who expressed their wish to die, I don't know if I would be able to prescribe a lethal dosage of medication or not. I would probably make the family sign some kind of no-fault affidavit (if such a thing exists) and then discharge the patient from the hospital so that they could do whatever they wanted, including end their life, if they chose to do so.
Yeesh... Even THAT isn't a really great solution...  
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maffumatt
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I know this, when my grandmother died she was in extreme pain for a very long time, she expressed her wish to die on many occasions. I believe she had that "right", I didn't support the Shivo case because the woman couldn't speak for herself. But I do believe that the goverment should stay out of the Dr.'s office. I don't support abortion but even there what goes on between a Dr and a patient is no one elses buisness. If you are of sound mind the goverment should let you make informed choices about how you want to end your life. I know I would rather die a swift painless death than a drawn out painfull death that could last months. Err on the side of life, but dont take away a persons dignity.
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vig
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #3 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 5:18pm » |
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a person's life is their own decision....
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ClusterChuck
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #4 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 5:27pm » |
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on Oct 5th, 2005, 5:18pm, vig wrote:a person's life is their own decision....
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I could not have said it better!
Do it if you want,
Or don't do it if you don't want,
But don't tell me what to do!
The same with abortion. It is not anyone's decision except the parties involved (yes PARTIES. It takes more than one to make a baby!).
Chuck
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #5 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 5:33pm » |
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Hey Matt, its not legal anymore to do assisted suicide in Oregon. It was voted on in the 90's by the citizens, and it passed, but then some politicians changed it even though it was in obvious contradiction of the citizens wishes.
I do believe that terminally ill people should have the right to die if they so choose. Thats all I am gonna say about that.
Not to hijack the post, but how do yous feel about when a small number of politicians over-rule a majority vote by the citizens? Like this issue for example....the citizens of Oregon voted a certain way, then they were over-ruled by a handful of politicians. Thats not representative of the citizens.
BMonee
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Jonny
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #6 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 5:33pm » |
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on Oct 5th, 2005, 5:16pm, maffumatt wrote:| I know this, when my grandmother died she was in extreme pain for a very long time, she expressed her wish to die on many occasions. I believe she had that "right", I didn't support the Shivo case because the woman couldn't speak for herself. But I do believe that the goverment should stay out of the Dr.'s office. I don't support abortion but even there what goes on between a Dr and a patient is no one elses buisness. If you are of sound mind the goverment should let you make informed choices about how you want to end your life. I know I would rather die a swift painless death than a drawn out painfull death that could last months. Err on the side of life, but dont take away a persons dignity. |
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My Dad rolled into the hospital and said "DNR" after a weekend long heart attack, thats what they did. He was 76 and showing signs of ahlzimers, and he knew it.
Is Dr Death still alive in jail?
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
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rextangle
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We don't let animals suffer, but we have a tendancy to let humans do that for selfish reasons... if it's terminal and the person can't take it anymore...
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maffumatt
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on Oct 5th, 2005, 5:33pm, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:Hey Matt, its not legal anymore to do assisted suicide in Oregon. It was voted on in the 90's by the citizens, and it passed, but then some politicians changed it even though it was in obvious contradiction of the citizens wishes.
I do believe that terminally ill people should have the right to die if they so choose. Thats all I am gonna say about that.
Not to hijack the post, but how do yous feel about when a small number of politicians over-rule a majority vote by the citizens? Like this issue for example....the citizens of Oregon voted a certain way, then they were over-ruled by a handful of politicians. Thats not representative of the citizens.
BMonee
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It is legal in Oregon, over 200 people have been able to use it. It has been upheld in two lower court ruleings.
As to your second comment, if all the white people voted to expel all the hispanics in a national referendum, would you expect the courts to uphold it? The majority is not always right. That is why we have a supreme court, a constitution, and a legislative branch, and even they err.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2005, 5:48pm by maffumatt » |
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jimmers
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #9 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 5:57pm » |
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If you sign a DNR, Thats YOUR choice
If you are of sound mind and want to off yourself, thats YOUR choice.
Set up a living will now, so your intentions are made clear if you personally cannot make those decisions while incapacitated, for yourself.
Lots of scenarios with this topic, kids, people born basically incapacitated etc.
Seeya,
Jimmers
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I don't suffer from INSANITY; I'm enjoying every minute of it!
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unsolved1
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Could you imagine having a non-stop 24/7 Kip 10 cluster attack ? How would you feel ? Death would be a sweet relief ! Only the politicians are gonna make you stay alive and suffer with it (24/7)
UNsolved
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Jonny
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #11 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 6:26pm » |
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on Oct 5th, 2005, 6:18pm, unsolved1 wrote:| Could you imagine having a non-stop 24/7 Kip 10 cluster attack ? How would you feel ? Death would be a sweet relief ! Only the politicians are gonna make you stay alive and suffer with it (24/7) |
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And that's the end of this discussion. at least for me!
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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BlueMeanie
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #12 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 6:35pm » |
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I never could figure out why you don't have that right. I just don't get it.
on Oct 5th, 2005, 5:33pm, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:how do yous feel about when a small number of politicians over-rule a majority vote by the citizens? Like this issue for example....the citizens of Oregon voted a certain way, then they were over-ruled by a handful of politicians. Thats not representative of the citizens.
BMonee
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Same thing happened in California for the medicinal marijuana law. They can now seize your property and arrest you even if you have all your paperwork in order saying it's o.k.
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Jill
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #13 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 6:38pm » |
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I dont think that anyone has the right to say what someone can or can not do - that goes against free choice.. So why is it that politicians make decisions based on their personal beliefs rather than what the people want? Guess that it is all political but still bothers me...
It is like men making the decision of whether or not women can have abortions or straight people deciding that gay marriages can or cannot happen...
I think that sometimes we have to step outside of ourselves and think about what we would want if we were in that situation - so many times we are thinking about it from the wrong view...
Just my thoughts
Jill
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"If you learn from your suffering and really come to understand the lesson you were taught you might be able to help someone else who is now in the phase. Maybe that is what its all about after all.."
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Jonny
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #14 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 6:39pm » |
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The overwhelming majority voted no seat belt law in Mass......fucking pols over rode it.......WTF is that?
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Jill
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #15 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 6:51pm » |
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on Oct 5th, 2005, 6:39pm, Jonny wrote:| The overwhelming majority voted no seat belt law in Mass......fucking pols over rode it.......WTF is that? |
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I see your point... but that isnt what I mean... Let me try to explain the best that I can.
How can someone who has been perfectly healthy with exception to minor ailments make the decision that doctor-assisted suicide is bad? They dont know what it is like and no one can say, unless you are in that situation, whether or not you would want it as an option.
Or another example of what I mean, and no offense to men, but how can they decide whether a women should or shouldnt be able to have an abortion. It is a women's body and it should be there decision. Again, place yourself in their situation.
Or how can those that think that gay marriages are wrong, is it really fair that they make laws because of what they believe? Sure it may be against what they consider right or wrong but that is a personal opinion...
It all comes down to thinking about what you would want for yourselves or for your loved ones if the situation was present. Sure there are basic common sense things like wearing seatbelts but that is something different.. that is common sense.
I dont know, it is all political and I think that some of these big decisions that they are making are taking away peoples rights.
Again, just my thoughts.
Jill
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"If you learn from your suffering and really come to understand the lesson you were taught you might be able to help someone else who is now in the phase. Maybe that is what its all about after all.."
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Jonny
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #16 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 7:06pm » |
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on Oct 5th, 2005, 6:51pm, Jill wrote:| It all comes down to thinking about what you would want for yourselves |
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Jill, did you not READ where I wrote that MOST people were against it?
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Jill
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #17 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 7:11pm » |
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on Oct 5th, 2005, 7:06pm, Jonny wrote:
Jill, did you not READ where I wrote that MOST people were against it?
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Sorry Jonny - just misread what ya wrote! Sometimes it takes me awhile to fully understand what is written... too many CH's!
Jill
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"If you learn from your suffering and really come to understand the lesson you were taught you might be able to help someone else who is now in the phase. Maybe that is what its all about after all.."
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #18 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 8:12pm » |
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on Oct 5th, 2005, 5:48pm, maffumatt wrote:
It is legal in Oregon, over 200 people have been able to use it. It has been upheld in two lower court ruleings.
As to your second comment, if all the white people voted to expel all the hispanics in a national referendum, would you expect the courts to uphold it? The majority is not always right. That is why we have a supreme court, a constitution, and a legislative branch, and even they err. |
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Good point matt. 1 thing: are you SURE about the oregon thing? I could have sworn in like 98 or 99 it was overturned again, making it illegal.
You point about the majority not always being right I agree with, but it is the majorities' wish. In a democracy, the majority is supposed to get their way.
I agree with you, it may not be the best idea. But damn it, the people of Oregon voted on this like 2 times, and it passed both times. I think a public vote should be the last appeal, not the first.
Do you think this is a good issue to hand down to the states? Or do you think there should just be a federal law?
BMonee
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Kris_in_SJ
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #19 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 8:18pm » |
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In the end, it all comes down to "choice".
As individuals we either have the right to choose what's best for ourselves or we don't. The right to die, the right to reproductive freedom, the right to bear arms, etc. ......
THAT is the bottom line. If we do have the right to choose, then the law has no right to prosecute those who provide us with the means to do so. They're not guilty of anything. We're the ones who are making the choice.
Kris
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maffumatt
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on Oct 5th, 2005, 8:12pm, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Good point matt. 1 thing: are you SURE about the oregon thing? I could have sworn in like 98 or 99 it was overturned again, making it illegal.
You point about the majority not always being right I agree with, but it is the majorities' wish. In a democracy, the majority is supposed to get their way.
I agree with you, it may not be the best idea. But damn it, the people of Oregon voted on this like 2 times, and it passed both times. I think a public vote should be the last appeal, not the first.
Do you think this is a good issue to hand down to the states? Or do you think there should just be a federal law?
BMonee
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Q: What is Oregon's Death with Dignity Act?
A: The Death with Dignity Act permits physicians to write prescriptions for a lethal dosage of medication to people with a terminal illness. This procedure is also known as physician-assisted suicide.
The Death with Dignity Act was a citizens' initiative passed twice by Oregon voters. The first time was in a general election in November 1994 when it passed by a margin of 51% to 49%. An injunction delayed implementation of the Act until it was lifted on October 27, 1997. In November 1997, a measure was placed on the general election ballot to repeal the Death with Dignity Act. Voters chose to retain the Act by a margin of 60% to 40%.
There is no state "program" for Death with Dignity/physician-assisted suicide. People interested in participating do not "make application" to the State of Oregon or the Department of Human Services. It is up to qualified patients and licensed physicians to implement the Act on an individual basis. The Act requires the Department of Human Services to collect data on patients who participate each year in order to determine compliance with the terms of the Act and to issue an annual report.
Q: Who can request physician-assisted suicide?
A: The law states that, in order to participate, a patient must be: 1) 18 years of age or older, 2) a resident of Oregon, 3) capable of making and communicating health care decisions for him/herself, and 4) diagnosed with a terminal illness that will lead to death within six (6) months. It is up to the attending physician to determine whether these criteria have been met.
Q: Can someone who doesn't live in Oregon participate in physician-assisted suicide?
A: No. Only patients who establish that they are residents of Oregon can participate if they meet certain criteria.
http://egov.oregon.gov/DHS/ph/pas/faqs.shtml
From the states website. I check my facts before I post.
Full democracy and communism have one thing in common, that is they are an utopian idea that sounds good but is not practical. That is one reason we have an electorial college, so that the larger states with higher populations won't run ramshod over poorer littler states. We live n a Representitive Democracy. But states rights and democracy isn't what this post is about.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2005, 9:37pm by maffumatt » |
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Redd
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #21 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 9:41pm » |
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on Oct 5th, 2005, 5:57pm, jimmers wrote:If you sign a DNR, Thats YOUR choice
If you are of sound mind and want to off yourself, thats YOUR choice.
Set up a living will now, so your intentions are made clear if you personally cannot make those decisions while incapacitated, for yourself.
Lots of scenarios with this topic, kids, people born basically incapacitated etc.
Seeya,
Jimmers |
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Or depending on state law, while you are of sound mind, appoint a Durable Power of attorney and make you wishes clear to them.
I just went threw this...
Pegg
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Charlie
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #22 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 10:49pm » |
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Stay out of my life and leave my doctor alone. A right to die falls in very close with idiot ranting against medical marijuana and DNR. These are the same nosy pricks busting down your front door looking for a stash. Creeps without an ouce of compassion.
Nobody in their right mind wants to die screaming.
Leave us alone.
Damned puritans.
Charlie 
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cootie
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Re: Right to die......
« Reply #23 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 10:56pm » |
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My luck if a doctor I'd script some lethal drugs for a patient and the next day there'd be a cure ! Chance there's a chance Pam
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LadyElaine
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Puttig myself in doctors shoes. I would always wonder did I do the right thing. As a daughter, a Mother a wife, I would always wonder was it the right thing.
I have put many animals to sleep in my life time. I often wondered was it the right thing?
One time I had a dog put to sleep because I was told she had split a gut. Years later I had a dog that had the same systoms. My vet said she had a infection in her intestant gave her some meds and in a couple of days she was fine. I put homeless animals to sleep, sick animals. Today I torcher myself for it.
Would I chose death for myself? Yes and no. I would wish for it to happen but as a Christian I would be afraid to do it because its a sin. Maybe this is what God ment in the bible when he said you will beg to die but can't.
I don't know.
Christians beleive that our bodies are not ours they belong to God. God controls when we die not us. Not doctors.
My dad he loved living. He suffered in the end. He did not want to die, he fought hard to stay alive. It killed me watching him suffer. I just don't know. I do not think anyone really does.
One law always leads to another. They say ok we will let the doctors do this. Then the next thing you know people will be killed at a certain age. That would take care of over populations Or they will have a place you can go and be put to sleep and you don't even have to be sick.
Just thinking out of the box here.
I really don't know.
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