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Topic: Things that make you say....Hmmmm (Read 708 times) |
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M.R.
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Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« on: Jun 24th, 2005, 3:36pm » |
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Don't know if this is true or not.
If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in
> the Iraq theater of operations during the last 22 months, that gives a
> firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000. The rate in Washington D.C. is
> 80.6 per 100,000. That means that you are 25% more likely to be shot
> and killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest
> gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.
>
> Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington, D.C.
Hmmmmmm
Mike
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Jonny
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #1 on: Jun 24th, 2005, 3:54pm » |
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on Jun 24th, 2005, 3:36pm, M.R. wrote:Don't know if this is true or not.
If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in
> the Iraq theater of operations during the last 22 months, that gives a
> firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000. The rate in Washington D.C. is
> 80.6 per 100,000. That means that you are 25% more likely to be shot
> and killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest
> gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.
>
> Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington, D.C.
Hmmmmmm
Mike
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I heard that same thing on a radio news cast.
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maffumatt
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #2 on: Jun 24th, 2005, 4:09pm » |
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Shhhh.....
Thats different didn't you know that? If that gets out some people will lose their political brownie points....some facts are just to straight forward for some to comprehend.
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Charlie
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #3 on: Jun 24th, 2005, 9:38pm » |
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First, bear in mind that I am not anti gun....
None of these comparisons alter the number of deaths.
Charlie
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burnt-toast
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #4 on: Jun 24th, 2005, 11:08pm » |
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on Jun 24th, 2005, 9:38pm, Charlie wrote:First, bear in mind that I am not anti gun....
None of these comparisons alter the number of deaths.
Charlie |
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I appreciate the fact that you are not anti-gun.
While it's politically correct to report the terrors of gun violence, why don't we receive equal coverage for the far greater numbers of murders committed with knives, baseball bats, automobiles, etc.?
As with any potential tool for killing someone you cannot alter the number of deaths unless you can stop idiots from using them.
That's what I have guns for - and why the police that would take too long to get here to save my family do as well.
Tom
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Jimmy_B.
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #5 on: Jun 25th, 2005, 8:14am » |
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As our leader might say..."that's some fuzzy math." 
It's comparing only military personnel (in Iraq) with an entire populace (D.C.) If you want to make it an equal comparison you either gotta include the entire populace of Iraq with D.C. or only the firearm death rate of the Washington D.C. Police Force with the military personnel in Iraq.
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don
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #6 on: Jun 25th, 2005, 12:14pm » |
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The US has one weapon of mass destruction.
He lives in the White House.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 25th, 2005, 12:14pm by don » |
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Lizzie2
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #7 on: Jun 25th, 2005, 2:58pm » |
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on Jun 24th, 2005, 11:08pm, burnt-toast wrote:
I appreciate the fact that you are not anti-gun.
While it's politically correct to report the terrors of gun violence, why don't we receive equal coverage for the far greater numbers of murders committed with knives, baseball bats, automobiles, etc.?
As with any potential tool for killing someone you cannot alter the number of deaths unless you can stop idiots from using them.
That's what I have guns for - and why the police that would take too long to get here to save my family do as well.
Tom
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Now...don't take this as my opinion on guns...I'm not going down that road again, but... I'd guess it's because there are far more gun accidents in this day and age than there are knives and baseball bats!
As far as gun violence...if you're referring to gun deaths related to an incident where someone intended to shoot someone and that's what happened, then that's a different story. The accidental ones are talked about in the news quite frequently, too...at least in the cities! Car accidents are also talked about a lot.....don't hear about intential murder by automobile quite *as* often as the accidental car crashes! 
Lizzie 
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maffumatt
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #8 on: Jun 25th, 2005, 4:53pm » |
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next thing you know we will be like England, they are trying to take knives away now that they got everyones guns. There was a guy murdered here not to long ago, a man dropped a cinder block on his head as he left a building. Look at the death rate in prisons, if you want to kill, you will figure out a way, at least the criminals will. Firearm deaths make the front page news when criminals do it, but when someone kills an intruder with a gun its one sentence on page nine.
The US has one weapon of mass destruction.
He lives in the White House.
*good thing for other countries to know, at least it makes them think before they act* ask gaddafi , at least one country wised up.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 25th, 2005, 5:07pm by maffumatt » |
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burnt-toast
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #9 on: Jun 25th, 2005, 6:43pm » |
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on Jun 25th, 2005, 2:58pm, Lizzie2 wrote:
As far as gun violence...if you're referring to gun deaths related to an incident where someone intended to shoot someone and that's what happened, then that's a different story. The accidental ones are talked about in the news quite frequently, too...at least in the cities! Car accidents are also talked about a lot.....don't hear about intential murder by automobile quite *as* often as the accidental car crashes!
Lizzie
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Lizzie, The following is from house hearing regarding road rage incidents. DUI is also considered homocide but I didn't include information for it.
WASHINGTON--Reversing a long decline, traffic deaths on the nation's roadways have now increased four years in a row, and federal highway officials Thursday attributed much of the carnage to "road rage."
Testifying before a House transportation subcommittee, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration officials estimated that two-thirds of the 42,000 highway deaths last year were related to aggressive driving, which appears to have joined drunk driving as a perilous trait of American culture.
Researchers define aggressive driving by certain types of behavior, such as speeding, illegal lane changes and running red lights. "Road rage" involves that sort of aggressive driving taken to an extreme.
A study by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety that sought to quantify road rage looked at 10,000 aggressive driving accidents reported around the nation since 1990. The study indicated that in 35% of the cases, a vehicle was used directly as a weapon. Men between the ages of 18 and 26 were the drivers most likely to be involved in aggressive driving accidents, the study indicated.
Statistics from the National Safety Council pertaining to accidential death rates may surprise you.
Tom
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Charlie
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #10 on: Jun 25th, 2005, 10:45pm » |
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Quote:While it's politically correct to report the terrors of gun violence, why don't we receive equal coverage for the far greater numbers of murders committed with knives, baseball bats, automobiles, etc.?
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You know, this comes up all the time....relative deaths by guns and everything else. It's wacked. Guns are dangerous and frankly, I'd be really happy if they were scarce. At least almost all NRA members understand the things.
That there are "favorable" statistics on the number of deaths by baseball bats, knives, cars, etc. has zero effect on the number of deaths. It's ridiculous.
Charllie
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burnt-toast
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #11 on: Jun 26th, 2005, 12:03pm » |
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on Jun 25th, 2005, 10:45pm, Charlie wrote:
You know, this comes up all the time....relative deaths by guns and everything else. It's wacked. Guns are dangerous and frankly, I'd be really happy if they were scarce. At least almost all NRA members understand the things.
That there are "favorable" statistics on the number of deaths by baseball bats, knives, cars, etc. has zero effect on the number of deaths. It's ridiculous.
Charllie |
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You clearly miss the point.
If someone with bad intentions and loose screws decides they want to kill someone they will do it with whatever dangerous instrument they can get their hands on. Period.
If anyone handles any tool without knowing how to properly use it, it's dangerous. Period.
It just so happens that statistically you are less likely to be murdered by a legally licensed gun owner than a licensed driver. Randomly educating/banning drivers would have far more postitive impact on death rates than banning guns.
AND YES THERE ALREADY IS LICENSING AND REGISTRATION, During background checks I always refuse to provide my SS# because it's optional and the gun dealers always immediately gets it from the government database used to perform the checks.
And accidents - Statistally everyone and this includes children are less likely to be hurt in a gun accident than any of the following even when each is taken seperatey.
Auto accident
Industrial Accident
Fall
Poisoning
Electricution
Pedestrian Accident
Drowning
Fires/burns
Suffocation
ANTI-GUN folks pry at our hearts with statements like "8 children ages 0 to 15 are killed in gun accidents each day". Unfortuantely it's a significant stretch from the National Safety Council's independent data of .2. Banning children from swimming and/or riding in cars would have a significantly greater positive impact on childrens lives than would banning guns.
I raised two wonderful children with loaded and unlocked guns in my house (gasp!). From their earliest years they were informed of the locations of these guns (gasp!, gasp!). From their earliest years they were drilled on how to safely handle and use these guns (gasp!, gasp!, gasp!). But from their earliest years they respected the dangers and power, knew they were not toys, and knew how to use them to defend themselves if necessary.
I can employ your "Guns are dangerous" mentality to hammers, charcoal grills, ladders, rope, pencils, saws, trees, hair dryers, plastic bags, electrical outlets, extension cords, lawn mowers, scissors etc., etc., etc., and make a much stronger case.
It's all political hoopla and hype designed to eliminate another right and further infringe upon our freedoms in this country. Don't automatically fear something you simply do not understand.
Tom
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Jonny
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #12 on: Jun 26th, 2005, 12:13pm » |
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on Jun 26th, 2005, 12:03pm, burnt-toast wrote:
It's all political hoopla and hype designed to eliminate another right and further infringe upon our freedoms in this country. Don't automatically fear something you simply do not understand. |
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Agreed!!!
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floridian
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #13 on: Jun 26th, 2005, 12:25pm » |
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There are more U.S. casualties in Iraq from bombs (IEDs) and vehicle crashes (often caused by bombs) than from gun shots.
Some of the muckety-mucks have gotten creative, and when a bomb blows up and causes an armored car to crash, those deaths and injuries aren't listed as a battle casualties - they are 'traffic accidents.'
As Mark Twain said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2005, 12:46pm by floridian » |
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Charlie
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #14 on: Jun 26th, 2005, 2:07pm » |
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Quote:| Don't automatically fear something you simply do not understand. |
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I grew up in a house full of guns. They were in hallway cabinets and in the livingroom. My grandmother had a .32 in her drawer and mom was a skeet shooter. I know about them, most people shouldn't have the things is all.
In my case, I should probably get rid of what I have. Not a good thing for epileptics.
Charlie
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burnt-toast
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #15 on: Jun 27th, 2005, 2:13am » |
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on Jun 26th, 2005, 2:07pm, Charlie wrote:
I know about them, most people shouldn't have the things is all.
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And ya said ya wasn't Anti-Gun.  . I don't take it personally, everyones entitled to their beliefs.
That's what makes this Nation great. As long as you live within the law and don't harm others you can live by your beliefs without fear of persecution.
So why is it that while I don't force others to own guns others feel perfectly within their rights to force me to stop legally owning guns?
Maybe they've established competing definitions for the words Freedom and rights. Is it possible that there is a second Constitution that we haven't been told about yet? Just some things to think about.
Tom
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giffy76
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #16 on: Jun 27th, 2005, 9:50am » |
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I probably should be anti-gun, but there's no chance in hell of that.
I was 6 my brother was 8, he found my dads .22 pistol pulled the hammer back and shot me in the knee it bounced around the room a few times and hit me again in the stomach.
My dad never taught us gun safety, we figured it out on our own, my kids know gun safety and I keep them locked up, "the guns not the kids" My son is 11 and has been skeet shooting with me since 9.
Anti-gun = bad. Gun safety = good. Shooting your little brother = learning the hard way
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Ghost
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #17 on: Jun 27th, 2005, 10:41am » |
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Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Jelly donuts
Oh wait I thought you sd Mmmmmmm
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burnt-toast
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #18 on: Jun 27th, 2005, 12:13pm » |
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on Jun 27th, 2005, 9:50am, giffy76 wrote:My dad never taught us gun safety, we figured it out on our own, my kids know gun safety and I keep them locked up, "the guns not the kids" My son is 11 and has been skeet shooting with me since 9.
Anti-gun = bad. Gun safety = good. Shooting your little brother = learning the hard way |
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Proper instruction/training and familiarity are absolutely necessary. My children were raised with loaded/unlocked guns in the house. (Not much good if ya gotta go find the key/shells & unlock/load em while an intruder chases ya around the house).
I drill them on gun safety - let them know where they are - teach them how to use them - and graphically demonstrate their power. Stashed guns were never intriguing mysteries to them. Having my own range helped.
I do not have a problem with someone being anti-gun - my wife is fairly opposed to guns and won't touch them. I have a problem with people that want to force me to be anti-gun to suite their agenda.
Oh, and the jelly donuts thing - I am also Pro-Jelly Donut.[b][/b]
Tom
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| « Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2005, 12:16pm by burnt-toast » |
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ExplodingEyeBall
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #19 on: Jun 27th, 2005, 2:06pm » |
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I have a problem with anyone who tries pushing ANY agenda on me.
I am probably one of the most politically incorrect people on Earth and I refuse to change my ways because some whiny cry baby thinks that I or my family would be better off if we just did stuff their way.
Wanna take my gun from me? It would be wise to bring one of your own then because you'll have to fight me for it. 
If you knock on my door pushing any other P.C. agenda in my face, you're wasting your time too.
Edited to add.... I'm pro any donut.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2005, 2:07pm by ExplodingEyeBall » |
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TomM
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #20 on: Jun 27th, 2005, 2:19pm » |
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Pro choice. Pro gun safety. Pro catholic. Pro A/C. Pro anti P/C. Pro blue cars. Pro birth control. Pro-fessional IT Geek. Pro fish[ing]. Pro power boats. Pro chocolate. Pro women. Pro steaks on the barbie. Pro B&W photography. Pro roses. pro green grass. Pro Anti-gas [flatulance].
TomM 
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ExplodingEyeBall
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #21 on: Jun 27th, 2005, 2:34pm » |
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Tom,
I had a list of all of my anti's in my last post but deleted them before I posted it. I would have offended about 80% of the people here if I would have left it in.
But...
I belive in God!!!! (Yes... I capitalized the word God. That's the way it should be.)
I support our president AND our troops!!!
I'm straight and I'm proud!!!
Welfare sucks!!!!!
I married someone of the opposite sex!!!
Jesse Jackson is the most powerful racist in exsitance!!!
I didn't evolve!!! I was created!!!!
I own a gun!!!! (Scary. Isn't it?)
I spank my child if she mis-behaves!!!!
I smoke cigarettes!!!
Affirmative action is legalized racism!!!!
I drive an SUV that burns a lot of gas!!!
I like Microsoft AND Linux!!!!
????????
I'll think of more later.
Anyone doesn't like my dislikes???? 
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TomM
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #22 on: Jun 27th, 2005, 5:23pm » |
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EEB--
Could have sworn I saw this on your car:
TomM
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burnt-toast
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #23 on: Jun 28th, 2005, 8:11am » |
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on Jun 27th, 2005, 2:34pm, ExplodingEyeBall wrote:Tom,
I had a list of all of my anti's in my last post but deleted them before I posted it. I would have offended about 80% of the people here if I would have left it in.
Anyone doesn't like my dislikes????
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I think everyone has a list the would offend around 80% of the population.
Things stat to fall apart when folks insist that their beliefs are so superior that everyone else has to be forced to conform to them.
Sharing them is great - gives folks different perspectives to consider but legislating other beliefs out of existance because you don't agree does not a make for a very free society.
We've always had common sense based laws to restrict how far someone could legally take their beliefs. Obeying these laws/not harming others should be enough - but some folks confuse "civilized society" with "socialistic utopia" where everyone is forced to march to the same drummer.
Tom
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| « Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2005, 8:12am by burnt-toast » |
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TomM
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Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
« Reply #24 on: Jun 28th, 2005, 8:19am » |
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For the record, my post was a joke. If you missed the begining "Pro Doughnut then you should read the last "Pro Anti-Gas [flatulance]".
Geez, check your egos @ the mouse pad.
TomM
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