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notseinfeld
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Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« on: May 25th, 2005, 6:52pm » |
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This will come as little surprise to most:
Minnesota boy wins National Geography Bee
Associated Press
WASHINGTON - A home-schooled seventh-grader from Minnesota has won the 17th annual National Geography Bee.
Thirteen-year-old Nathan Cornelius of Cottonwood was making his third straight trip to the national event.
He defeated nine other finalists during the final round, moderated by Alex Trebek, host of T-V's "Jeopardy."
Nathan outlasted 14-year-old Karan Takhar of Rhode Island in an eleven-question championship round. The deciding question was the name of the dammed river that forms artificial Lake Gatun (gah-TOON') in the Panama Canal system.
The answer -- the Chagres (CHAH'-gres) River.
Nathan wins a 25,000-dollar college scholarship and lifetime membership in National Geographic Society.
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/politics/11735427. htm
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Jonny
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #1 on: May 25th, 2005, 6:57pm » |
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Who cares? 
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notseinfeld
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #2 on: May 25th, 2005, 7:00pm » |
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Probably few but my pet project is to raise awareness of the pitiful state of, ahem, public education. Actually it's more of the horrific state of everything governmental and how private sector anything is always more efficient than wasted public projects.
Part and parcel of Libertarianism now firmly embedded in my skull.
Hey Jonny, when are you picking up a crypt cycle? Or a you the mysterious creator of said awesome bike?
cryptcycles.com
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Jonny
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #3 on: May 25th, 2005, 7:06pm » |
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on May 25th, 2005, 7:00pm, notseinfeld wrote:| Probably few but my pet project is to raise awareness of the pitiful state of, ahem, public education. |
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I could not agree more on that, Man!
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Bethany1
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #4 on: May 25th, 2005, 7:08pm » |
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whatz wrong wit publik scool? I went to publik scool.
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Lizzie2
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #5 on: May 25th, 2005, 7:22pm » |
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I think public school issues are state by state and sometimes even within a state, they are school by school. I've been to public school my entire life, and I lived in 4 different states. The one here (Downingtown) is one of the largest and toughest schools in the state. Before they split into east and west, I graduated with 600 kids in my class, tied for valedictorian with a GPA of 4.6 with 13 total kids. I'm not trying to brag with that, but I could have taken 5 AP classes my senior year, had I wanted - but that was too much.
The public schools can push you too hard, too. I was in about 15 extra curricular activities, I never slept, I didn't really eat. I finished with 2 levels of AP calculus under my belt, and thus would never have been required to take math in college until I needed stats to go to nursing school.
I took Spanish for about 6+ years and speak it fluently. Finished that with AP level as well. I took the first ever class of multicultural literature my senior year.
And if comparing it in one high school leaves you feeling skeptical, well I had a 4.0 my first semester at Penn State, and I graduated with high honors and a 3.83.
Graduated nursing school with a 3.53 and cum laude.
Sometimes it's the kid, sometimes it's the school, sometimes it's the parents - sometimes it's a combination of all of the above.
Public schools are not our downfall - it is more than just saying "fix the public school system" - we also need to fix the "family" system and other things!
My input,
Lizzie 
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maffumatt
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #6 on: May 25th, 2005, 8:00pm » |
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I home schooled my daughter for a year and a half, to tell the truth the work that the program gave her to do was hard for me, she was doing work in 5th grade on the homeschool program that she is doing now in 8th in public school.
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Charlie
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #7 on: May 25th, 2005, 8:28pm » |
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I believe home schooling is fine as an add on. Mom and dad can keep things on track just fine but unless there is some crazed religious thing, the public experience is healthy.
New York schools are pretty damn good too.
Charlie
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Jonny
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #8 on: May 25th, 2005, 8:40pm » |
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on May 25th, 2005, 8:28pm, Charlie wrote:| New York schools are pretty damn good too. |
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The ones with the metal detectors?
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notseinfeld
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #9 on: May 25th, 2005, 8:45pm » |
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[ Quote:| The ones with the metal detectors? |
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Nah--he's referring to the ones that hand out free condoms and don't write in red ink because it'll 'hurt their feelings.'
And good for you Maff on homeschooling your daughter!---it warms my heart to hear that, truly.
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Dave0377
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #10 on: May 25th, 2005, 9:31pm » |
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on May 25th, 2005, 7:22pm, Lizzie2 wrote:I think public school issues are state by state and sometimes even within a state, they are school by school. I've been to public school my entire life, and I lived in 4 different states. The one here (Downingtown) is one of the largest and toughest schools in the state. Before they split into east and west, I graduated with 600 kids in my class, tied for valedictorian with a GPA of 4.6 with 13 total kids. I'm not trying to brag with that, but I could have taken 5 AP classes my senior year, had I wanted - but that was too much.
The public schools can push you too hard, too. I was in about 15 extra curricular activities, I never slept, I didn't really eat. I finished with 2 levels of AP calculus under my belt, and thus would never have been required to take math in college until I needed stats to go to nursing school.
I took Spanish for about 6+ years and speak it fluently. Finished that with AP level as well. I took the first ever class of multicultural literature my senior year.
And if comparing it in one high school leaves you feeling skeptical, well I had a 4.0 my first semester at Penn State, and I graduated with high honors and a 3.83.
Graduated nursing school with a 3.53 and cum laude.
Sometimes it's the kid, sometimes it's the school, sometimes it's the parents - sometimes it's a combination of all of the above.
Public schools are not our downfall - it is more than just saying "fix the public school system" - we also need to fix the "family" system and other things!
My input,
Lizzie |
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Nerd! 
Home schooling works if the parents make sure the kids are actually doing work and learning. Having good communication with the affiliated school is important too. Some home school programs are a joke because they give kids work books to fill out and they give them the answers to self check, which is pointless they can just cheat their way though. If you're like my best friend, you slack off the entire year, sleep all day, party all night and then wait til the last 2 weeks to get all your books completed. But I don't think you learn and retain as much information as you should when you do it that way. If it's a good home school program, and the affiliated school is involved to a greater extent, then yeah, it can be effective.
I think kids who are homeschooled miss out on a lot though, expecially socially. I mean, if they are having problems socializing in school to begin with and then you take them out of the social setting and home school them, then you can't expect them to learn any social skills.
To say that all public schools are a mess is not a fair statement. There are some outstanding public school systems all over the country.
I just wish one of them would hire me!!
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maffumatt
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #11 on: May 25th, 2005, 9:35pm » |
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I did that several years ago, she was haveing problems at school and the teachers and principle were unwilling to help. Once we moved we put her back into public school. Home schooling has its place if you can also get them some social activities, but public school prepares the kids for the real world, for good or ill. You have to be really commited to homeschooling if that is the route you want to go. It has its good points and its bad, I just don't want people to tell me that I CAN'T do it, if you know what I mean.
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Mr. Happy
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Hoorah for Intelligence
« Reply #12 on: May 25th, 2005, 10:22pm » |
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90% of all home schoolings fail, mostly because the "instructor" doesn't know what the hell they're doing.
on May 25th, 2005, 9:31pm, Dave0377 wrote:| To say that all public schools are a mess is not a fair statement. There are some outstanding public school systems all over the country. |
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When some Asian kid can start high school with No English and graduate in the top 10 of his/her class, I tend to think the problem isn't with the schools. Even in crappy environments, the potential is there for any kid to excel if they're self motivated.....unless it's OK for them to yell "FUCK YOU, I'll Dust Your Ass" to the teacher or bus driver.
Or lunch aid.
Opportunity is everywhere. Choice is everything.
RJ
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Lizzie2
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Re: Hoorah for Intelligence
« Reply #13 on: May 25th, 2005, 11:13pm » |
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on May 25th, 2005, 10:22pm, Mr. Happy wrote:
When some Asian kid can start high school with No English and graduate in the top 10 of his/her class, I tend to think the problem isn't with the schools. Even in crappy environments, the potential is there for any kid to excel if they're self motivated.....unless it's OK for them to yell "FUCK YOU, I'll Dust Your Ass" to the teacher or bus driver.
Or lunch aid.
Opportunity is everywhere. Choice is everything.
RJ |
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Amen to that... And those values start in the home. I'm only 24 - I didn't go to the schools where you got smacked by your teacher as part of your "education" to learn proper values. My parents just brought us up right.
And Dave has an interview soon at one of our finer public schools in the area!
My mom works in a public elementary school; I used to work with an early intervention program for awhile, and I started off my major in music education. My boyfriend's major was health and phys ed. There's just a part of me that refuses to believe all public schools are bad.
I think we have to dig deeper, and that scares people. Teachers can't be expected to be the educator and parent for these kids. So why are we expecting them to be?
Not all home schooling programs are bad, just as not all public school programs are bad.
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Kevin_M
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Re: Hoorah for Intelligence
« Reply #14 on: May 26th, 2005, 12:11am » |
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on May 25th, 2005, 10:22pm, Mr. Happy wrote:90% of all home schoolings fail, mostly because the "instructor" doesn't know what the hell they're doing.
potential is there for any kid to excel if they're self motivated...
Opportunity is everywhere. Choice is everything.
RJ |
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Good words (but that lithium being on the metal "side" of the chart still rolls me everytime. ) you f*cker. 
Geography is one thing. If my parents could explain to me the "questions" I most certainly would have about physics, chemistry, biology, literature comprehension, economics, accounting, the social sciences and advanced math courses, then there's a chance I'd consider the choice.
The opportunity for answers "can" be found, it's who you are able to find and have the access to ask.
Then there's the social side of it. You may notice not many studies or journal articles have just one name on them anymore.
well, I try to STFU since I don't know anything about it... anyway.
Kevin M
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2005, 12:30am by Kevin_M » |
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Charlie
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #15 on: May 26th, 2005, 3:25am » |
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Public schooling is a relatively new and was created in large part because so many parents on the farm or in the slums held education in such low esteem. Many still do. It's still necessary. For all its flaws it's probably the most successful thing done by the government. It has its ups and downs and is a favorite target of religious nuts but the idea is good.
Charlie
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maffumatt
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #16 on: May 26th, 2005, 5:47am » |
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Posted by: Mr. Happy Posted on: May 25th, 2005, 10:22pm
90% of all home schoolings fail, mostly because the "instructor" doesn't know what the hell they're doing.
Please show where you come up with that statistic. I have a feeling you made it up.
Taken from the study produced by the US Department of Education
Homeschool profile
Median amount spent on home schooling per child in the US - $450
Household incomes
18% of home school families earn less than $25,000, 44% of households between $25,000 and $49,000.
Religion
Over 75% attend religious services
Regulation
States with High government regulation of home schools - homeschool battery score - 86
States with Moderate government regulation of home schools - homeschool battery score - 85
States with Low government regulation of home schools - homeschool battery score - 86
Certification
Performance of 4th grade home schoolers where at least one parent was certified - Composite Percentage Score 82
Performance of 4th grade home schoolers where neither parent was certified - Composite Percentage Score 82
Minority Performance
Home school - average reading score (white) - 87 percentile; Public school - average reading score (white) - 61 percentile
Home school - average reading score (minority) - 87 percentile; Public school - average reading score (minority) -49 percent
Home school - average math score (white) - 82 percentile; Public school - average math score (white) - 60 percentile
Home school - average math score (minority) - 77 percentile; Public school - average math score (minority) - 50 percentile
For data above reference Brian D. Ray, PhD, Home Schooling on the Threshold (NHERI Publications, PO Box 13939, Salem, OR 97309), and HSLDA, Home Education Across the USA (HSLDA, 17333 Pickwick Dr., Purcellville, VA 20132), and HSLDA, Home Schooling Works, Pass it on! Rudner Report, (HSLDA, 17333 Pickwick Dr., Purcellville, VA 20132).
"The average SAT score for home schoolers in 2000 was 1100, compared with 1019 for the general population. And a large study by University of Maryland education researcher Lawrence Rudner showed that the average home schooler scored in the 75th percentile on the Iowa Test of Basic Skills; the 50th percentile marked the national average."
http://www.uhea.org/stats.html
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2005, 6:10am by maffumatt » |
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giffy76
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #17 on: May 26th, 2005, 6:35am » |
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My sister home schools my niece and nephew, brilliant kids, very book smart but they have no social skills and I don't mean they are kind of wierd. NO social skills, it's impossible to take them in public because they have no idea how to behave. Parents need to protect their children not shelter them. If parents would focus more on their children and less on career that child will excell no matter where they go to school.
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maffumatt
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #18 on: May 26th, 2005, 7:02am » |
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Most areas have homeschool socialization programs where the kids meet and play, they go on field trips and do alot of activities together. It doesn't sound like your sister does this.
* Join the scouts or 4-H. Many communities offer homeschool 4-H groups, and a few areas contain scouting groups whose members primarily homeschool. (If you join a homeschool group, it generally meets when you're available during the day, instead of using evening or weekend hours.) Ask around.
* Volunteer for a local nonprofit organization. Many organizations may appreciate helping hands. The animal shelter, library, and local food bank are only a few of them. Look in the nonprofit section of your local phone book and locate a worthy cause.
* Play ball, tennis, or golf. Regardless of your favorite sport, the local parks and recreation department probably offers some kind of spring or summer classes. It's a great way to meet other people and maybe even find someone to play with. After signing up for tennis lessons last summer, the parents in my time slot sat around the picnic table to get acquainted. It only took us a few minutes to realize that all but one of us taught our kids at home.
* Meet a playgroup at the park. Homeschool park groups incorporate all ages from preschoolers on up. Some families pack a lunch and stay most of the day, while others drop by for a bit to spend some time and then wander off to other activities.
* Play in the homeschool orchestra. And brush up on your note theory at the same time. If your community doesn't offer a homeschool orchestra, maybe it organizes a theater group, choir, or some other artsy conclave.
* Join or create a field trip group. Some homeschool groups meet once a month or so only to participate in field trips together. This is a way to meet other families, see new sights, and not feel like you're committed every week for the rest of the semester.
My daughter met with other homeschool kids twice a week. Sometimes they went to a museum, field trips to local historical attractions, or just met at the park and played. Homeschooling is what you make it. Most kids are well adjusted, polite, and considerate. But there are always exceptions to every rule. Even in public school there are kids that have no social skills, or just plain mean kids. The reason I homeschooled my daughter was that there were several kids that just plain harrassed her by grabbing her breasts and butt, everyday she came home crying and told us a different story. I had enough when a group of boys ripped her shirt off at school, when the school called and told us to bring her a shirt and I found out that the boys resposible had only gotten 2 days suspension, and this being after several complaints about them already, I pulled her out. Are the kids that were doing this to her socialy adjusted? What was my daughter learning from this?
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2005, 7:08am by maffumatt » |
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BarbaraD
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #19 on: May 26th, 2005, 8:36am » |
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I've got two schools of thougth on this one.....
I attended public schools (except for a year of boarding school). But this was back in the fifties. If we got in trouble at school, whatever punishment we got was mild to what happened when we got home. Our parents took an interest in what we were doing and helped with homework. We actually LEARNED things. Of course we didn't have all the extra stuff that they teach nowadays.
My son attended public schools until the 8th grade when he went to boarding school for a few years. He came out of boarding school and attended public schools until he graduated. BUT, I was involved in both public and boarding schools.
I attended school board meetings, asked questions, met with teachers when needed and KNEW what the kid was doing. We also did homework at night and I knew what he was strong and weak in. I was INVOLVED.
My gripe now is that schools have become a glorified babysitter and parents (not all, but most) don't "have time" to see that their children get an education - or they just don't care anymore. A sad turn of events.
Now I have a grandson. He's in 'pre-school' right now and I'm up there weekly asking questions and giving them my complaints when I dont' think they're doing right. We work with him at home also.
So I guess what this boils down to is public schools can only do so much, but it's still up to the parents to see the child learns. Until parents start getting involved we're not going to get anything changed at all.
Hugs BD
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giffy76
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #20 on: May 26th, 2005, 8:38am » |
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You have a very good point. I'm use to small town, farm community public school were my kids go and were my wife and I went and they have 0 tolorence for disrespect. As for my sister, she's tried various outings like you mentioned and all they got out of it were hurt feelings. The point I'm trying to make is that kids learn more from other kids and you have to take the bad with the good. By no means am I saying I think you'r wrong for taking your' daughter out, I would have done the same in that circumstance, you have to protect your' kids.
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Melissa
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #21 on: May 26th, 2005, 8:38am » |
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Quote:| When some Asian kid can start high school with No English and graduate in the top 10 of his/her class, I tend to think the problem isn't with the schools. |
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I agree with this. Totally.
Interesting thread.
mel
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2005, 8:40am by Melissa » |
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notseinfeld
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #22 on: May 26th, 2005, 9:14am » |
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Nathan's parents are bright enough to realize that government is not the way to go when it comes to educating a child. They accepted the responsibility, and educated him at home.
This is one of the most important issues facing our country today. We are suffering from the impact of generation after generation of Americans who have been educated by government. As a result America is populated by a citizenry that knows little about the founding of this country or the basics of our Constitution.
Today's Americans can't write a cogent sentence on the difference between a rule of law and a rule of man. They believe that America is and is supposed to be a democracy, and have no idea what a constitutional republic might be or how it might operate. Not 1 out of 100 Americans could tell you that the government of Nigeria has official representation in Washington DC, but that the government of Nebraska does not. Few Americans know that the American economy is hamstrung by a system of taxation that puts us at a competitive disadvantage with the rest of the industrialized world.
Americans have a limited, if that, sense of self-reliance. Health care? That's your employer's responsibility, or your government's. Retirement planning? Let the government do it, we don't want to be burdened with the responsibilities. Americans are becoming lazy and dependent .. and that is precisely and exactly what our politicians want. A lazy and dependent American is a am American who will invite more and more government.
Again, that is just what the political class wants. And who controls our system of education? Why, the political class! Politicians! What a deal? They use their control over the education of our children to create generation after generation of dumbed-down myrmidons who believe that America is great because of its government. What else would you expect?
This country is on the ropes, my friends. Socialized medicine is all but inevitable, and we can't even convince a majority of the people that it is wiser for them to handle their own retirement funds rather than turn their money over to politicians to be spent on vote-buying programs. If freedom and economic liberty is to be resurrected and preserved we must do something about the day-after-day, year-after-year indoctrination of yet another generation of Americans in this hideous system of government schools. The first step would be school choice. Parents ought to be allowed to make decisions as to how the money that they earn will be spent in the education of their children. Vouchers ought to be at the top of the list when we make our decisions at the polls next November. I don't care what else a politician might have going for him, if he doesn't support school choice, if he doesn't support vouchers, then that politicians needs to be sent home and replaced with someone who will return the control of education to the parents.
There is no one institution that has contributed more to the deterioration of America than our system of government schools. Do Americans have the guts to stand behind their children, and their country?
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LadyElaine
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #23 on: May 26th, 2005, 10:37am » |
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I had to jump right in this one. We will be homeschooling JD. We have spent the last four years researching home schooling. Homeschool does work.
I have researched it like I did clusters and still do.
Our kids who are homeschooled meet other children and are in many things, as already posted. . How many of you have heard a teacher say. "Your not here to Socialize! Your here to learn!" It is spoken everyday by a teacher !
I think it takes a lot of love and caring to home school our kids. It is not a easy job. I don't tell anyone not to send their children to public school, I rejoice in any child doing great in home school or public school. We don't want anyone telling us not to homeschool!
As far as if we are educated enough to teach our kids. what we don't know we will find someone who does, We will hire someone who can teach them what we can not. In the homeschool meets we have. We trade off. One Mother/Dad will teach spanish, one Mother/Dad will teach algerbra, one Mother/Dad will teach something else. We share what we are good at. Two days a week we all meet in one place and different things are taught. Fild trips are taken with other kids. This year in Atlanta there was even a prom for the homeschoolers.
Please don't put home schooling down till you research it. We have to let the school system know we are teaching them. We have to have the kids tested every three years. We have to turn certain paper work into the school system each month. In Georgia, our children can be picked up and questioned by the police if caught in public durning school hours, and parents being held responisable. Its not like we can just do what ever we want to . There are certain subjects we have to teach. There are certain things we have to do to be able to home school. Its a wonderful thing for the child and the parent to learn together. Not only History Math, but about Life, Respect, kindness, FAMILY! It brings the family close together. We hope that when JD grows up he will be a Productive person. That Family will mean something to him.
Back to the topic. Hoorah For Home Schoolers ! Nathan Cornelius you make your Parents proud. Your a good example for all students being taught in homeschool. By the way Nathan Cornelius is not the only homeschooler who has won !
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Lizzie2
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Re: Hoorah for Home Schoolers
« Reply #24 on: May 26th, 2005, 11:01am » |
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I think my problem comes from the generalizations that all children who go to public schools are morons who can't think for themselves.
Speak for whatever child you know who turned out that way, but PLEASE don't speak for the rest of us. Average SAT score in the 1000's for public school kids? Fine, but I know public school kids who got 1600's on the SATs. And the SATs in reality mean nothing. Colleges don't even look at them as much anymore compared to how they view the actual person and their accomplishments.
My friend Adrienne took an interesting approach to education. She was going to a conservatory after graduation for cello performance. Instead of her parents (her father was on the school board) pulling her out of school altogether, they worked it out so that she attended the public school in the morning and went to all of the major classes there. In the afternoon, she went home to practice the cello. She did amazingly well.
I outright disagree with blanket statements that say all public schooling is bad and that all children who went to public schools are morons who can't think for themselves. This is a terrible attitude to have, and it's an absolute terrible attitude to pass on to ANY very malleable child.
I won't put out a blanket statement (and haven't) to say that all home schooling is a joke, so I would apprecitate it if people would quit putting out blanket statements that say public schooling is a failure.
It IS about parental interest. My mom taught me how to read before I ever started school. Both of my parents were very involved in my education.
You want to blame someone for the failure of education? Blame the parents who don't give a damn about their kids and throw them in front of the tv for hours on end.
If one was to return to college to go through an "education" track - you would find a much higher quality of education that they are giving to today's teachers than you would have seen 50 years ago.
But then, I live in Pennsylvania - I know my mom was considering sending me to Catholic school if we'd have stayed in Kentucky. Pennsylvania has some of the best schools in the country - similar to what Charlie said about New York schools. New York schools not only force their kids to take the SATs, but they force them to take countless rigorous Regents exams even to move on to the next year of education. I think the schools have cracked down in a much more tough manner to correct education than most people can even dream of.
These same people are writing into the local newspaper berating our teachers and support staff when they go on strike beacuse the richest school districts in the area won't give them a raise for the past 5 years. The image that public education is a wasteland really needs to change, and people who want to voice the entire system as a failure need to look outside the box.
Ahhh ok...done now with that rant. I just feel very strongly about this issue. I wouldn't be who I am today (for better or worse) if I hadn't gone to public school AND had my parents extremely involved in that education as well as raising us with proper morals, values, and ethical ideals.
Carrie
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