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Topic: THE REAL CURE (Read 642 times) |
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rextangle
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Hirvimaki
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #1 on: Mar 31st, 2005, 6:26pm » |
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GIS for "The Real Cure":
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"What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others."
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rextangle
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Who's that??? 
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Jonny
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #3 on: Mar 31st, 2005, 6:30pm » |
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on Mar 31st, 2005, 6:28pm, rextangle wrote:| Who's that??? |
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That's you Frenchie 
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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rextangle
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Hey now!
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Hirvimaki
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #5 on: Mar 31st, 2005, 6:33pm » |
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on Mar 31st, 2005, 6:28pm, rextangle wrote:| Who's that??? |
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Stuart M. Close
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"What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others."
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Ueli
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Quote:| Homoeopathy is both an Art and a Science. |
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The Art to turn water to gold/money and the Science to deceive people.
Close was one of the popes of homeopathy, but the messiah was Samuel Friedrich Hahnemann 1755 - 1843.
edited to add:
Those who like can celebrate the Quackfathers 250th birthday on April 10th 
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| « Last Edit: Mar 31st, 2005, 9:05pm by Ueli » |
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nani
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #8 on: Mar 31st, 2005, 8:50pm » |
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Homeopathic allergy remedies are a godsend. Even Western medicine uses that principle. Tiny amounts of the allergen will eventually build up a resistance to them. I actually died (and was brought back) from a western allergy shot. I use homeopathic ones when needed now.
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vig
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #9 on: Mar 31st, 2005, 9:05pm » |
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http://skepdic.com/homeo.html
Western medicinal doses of allergen immunotherapy are MUCH higher than homepathic doses.
MUCH MUCH higher.
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040815/689.html
Dilutions are on an order of 1:500
Homeopathic dilutions are on the order of 1:1000000
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| « Last Edit: Mar 31st, 2005, 9:08pm by vig » |
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nani
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #10 on: Mar 31st, 2005, 10:14pm » |
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EEK! Probably why they work better for me. Cheap, too. Lots cheaper than allergy shots or even antihistimines.
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Others may come and go, but MY power is MINE.
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Ueli
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on Mar 31st, 2005, 8:50pm, nani wrote:| Homeopathic allergy remedies are a godsend. Even Western medicine uses that principle. Tiny amounts of the allergen will eventually build up a resistance to them. I actually died (and was brought back) from a western allergy shot. I use homeopathic ones when needed now. |
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Nani, sorry to hear that you had such a bad reaction to an otherwise useful medicament.
That you think a homeopathic preparation help you proves that water in reasonable amounts is not harmful and the placebo effect is sometimes very strong.
The principle of homeopathy is to potentize (for the adepts) or dilute (for the skeptics) the active ingredient, to extremely low concentrations.
Example:
A potency of 10C corresponds to a dilution of 100-10 = 10-20.
Considering Avogadro's number = 6.025 * 1023 we can expect about 300 molecules of the active substance in 1 ml (milli-liter) of a 10C potency. At 12C we need a 30 ml to find one molecule, at 20C several cubic kilometers and at the often recommended 30C all the water on earth would be not enough for one molecule.
How come that these tremendous dilutions are believed to still have an effect? The adepts believe that by rhythmic shaking during potentizing an imprint is transferred to the water, so it doesn't matter that hardly any trace of the active ingredient is left.
But this is utter nonsense! No memory effect of water is know or has ever been observed. Furthermore, quantum mechanics and thermodynamics don't allow for such an effect. All attempts by the homeopaths to prove this memory effect were miserable failures. (BTW, some ingredients are not soluble in water, and so alcohol or milk sugar must be used as a carrier. Conveniently these too have a memory effect  )
So the claim "Even Western medicine uses that principle" is simply not true, because that principle relies on mysticism, not modern physics or chemistry.
PFNADs, Ueli 
PS: Sorry for such a longwinded post, nani, but others, beside you, read this message board too.
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Opus
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #12 on: Mar 31st, 2005, 11:25pm » |
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Scientist were shocked when they proved that a homoeopathic solution of histamine was found to have the same effect on cells as a regular higher solution. I am not saying I believe in the theory, but is it possible for cells to have a placebo effect without a brain guiding them?
Of course I also believe in quantum mechanics as much as Einstein did, so who am I to listen too. Sorry, haven't found any important links yet
http://www.wnho.net/tests_support_homoeopathy.htm
http://www.newstarget.com/001951.html
Opus/Paul
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| « Last Edit: Mar 31st, 2005, 11:29pm by Opus » |
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Kevin_M
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #13 on: Mar 31st, 2005, 11:42pm » |
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on Mar 31st, 2005, 8:47pm, Ueli wrote:
The Art to turn water to gold/money and the Science to deceive people. |
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I have to chime in with accolades for Lorenzo Fowler, phrenology marketer extraordinaire of evangical fervor.
Originating with Francis Joseph Gall's "craniology" at U of Vienna, 1780's, and then called "phrenology by disciple Johann Spurzheim it was brought to America and "bumpology" was born.
Lorenzo Fowler intended to phrenologize the nation, the reading of bumps on the head as a "science of the mind". It had the sheen of science and the glamour of European origins. And yes, they turned their art into gold. The Fowler brothers (Orson too) opened offices in Boston, Philadelphia, and London and were considered the "wizards of manipulation" The art just so happened to linger longest in the hearts of those who recognized themselves in its flattering reflection, therefore it had a glorious ascent in America.
A practically lone sceptic, Mark Twain, was assessed by Fowler and found to be lacking in humor.
Good call
Kevin M
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| « Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2005, 12:16am by Kevin_M » |
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Charlie
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #14 on: Apr 1st, 2005, 12:33am » |
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The fundamental problem of homeopathy is in its efficacy. The possible risk is not in an incidental toxicity but in the fact that some may prefer a homeopathic remedy instead of a proved cure.
Don't get me started.
Charlie
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Barry_T_Coles
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #15 on: Apr 1st, 2005, 4:14am » |
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Cute snake though.
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Hirvimaki
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #16 on: Apr 1st, 2005, 9:23am » |
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Geez!
Hirvimaki-Isi
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"What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others."
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sandie99
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #17 on: Apr 1st, 2005, 1:06pm » |
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Yikes!
I'm scared of snakes....! 
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Jonny
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #19 on: Apr 1st, 2005, 5:53pm » |
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If you ask me the subconceptual nihilism of the narrative line offers an oblique pragmatism.
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Grandma_Sweet_Boy
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #20 on: Apr 1st, 2005, 5:54pm » |
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on Apr 1st, 2005, 5:53pm, Jonny wrote:| If you ask me the subconceptual nihilism of the narrative line offers an oblique pragmatism. |
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Who the hell are you and what have you done with our Jonny?
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Jonny
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #21 on: Apr 1st, 2005, 5:57pm » |
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on Apr 1st, 2005, 5:54pm, Grandma_Sweet_Boy wrote:
Who the hell are you and what have you done with our Jonny? |
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Undoubtedly the iconicity of the mythopoetical whole conforms to low-brow tastes.
Sue me
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Grandma_Sweet_Boy
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #22 on: Apr 1st, 2005, 6:08pm » |
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on Apr 1st, 2005, 5:57pm, Jonny wrote:
Undoubtedly the iconicity of the mythopoetical whole conforms to low-brow tastes.
Sue me
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Could we maybe serve up that Funk & Wagnells with a touch of barbeque sauce for you! Did ya swallow the damned thing whole - what?
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Bob P
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #23 on: Apr 1st, 2005, 6:16pm » |
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Really now Rex; why is that picture titled "cobra" when it a rattler?
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clarence
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Re: THE REAL CURE
« Reply #24 on: Apr 1st, 2005, 6:17pm » |
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on Apr 1st, 2005, 5:57pm, Jonny wrote:
Undoubtedly the iconicity of the mythopoetical whole conforms to low-brow tastes.
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I disagree, although Mortal Kombat is a good game. My favorite game is Donkey Kong.
Casey
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