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Topic: The beast and the night.................... (Read 787 times) |
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Sean_C
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The beast and the night....................
« on: Oct 7th, 2004, 8:16pm » |
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I was just curious, what causes all of us to get clusterheadaches when we hit REM sleep? Anybody know?
I could use some new reading material if you have any.
Thanks peepes
Sean................................
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| « Last Edit: Oct 7th, 2004, 9:01pm by Sean_C » |
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Sean_C
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #1 on: Oct 7th, 2004, 8:28pm » |
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Bueler.................................................................. ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ..................................................Bueler................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ............................Bueler 
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K-9
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #2 on: Oct 7th, 2004, 8:42pm » |
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Anyone.............................................Anyone............... ...???
Sorry, couldn't resist. Hey, I'm new here so I don't have any links or specific info for ya. I would be willing to guess that no one is secifically linking this to sleep since a large number of people do ONLY or ALSO get hit in the daytime, therefore ruling out that as a cause, similar to the " some of us smoke, and some of us don't" theory. For me it generally hits about 1 hr after sleep right at the beginning of REM stage sleep, but I've also found that if I don't go to sleep and I just lay there and watch t.v., No sleep, no REM, I still get hit in about an hour!!! Go Figure!?!? Good luck with finding more on this topic, it'll be interesting reading!!! 
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Jonny
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #3 on: Oct 7th, 2004, 8:50pm » |
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Sean dude, shrink your post dude......this thread is Way fucked up
............................jonny
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Kris_in_SJ
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #4 on: Oct 7th, 2004, 8:54pm » |
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Sorry - no new links. They're already here someplace. What I have read, links the onset of night hits (or nap hits) with REM sleep. So .... just as you're getting to that REALLY nice place where good dreams are starting to happen .... BAM!
That's why Melatonin helps many nighttime sufferers - it interrupts the normal REM stage - at least I read that someplace ....
Kris
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Sean_C
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #5 on: Oct 7th, 2004, 9:02pm » |
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on Oct 7th, 2004, 8:50pm, Jonny wrote:| Sean dude, shrink your post dude......this thread is Way fucked up |
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Hows that LMAO
Sean............................
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Sean_C
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #6 on: Oct 7th, 2004, 9:04pm » |
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on Oct 7th, 2004, 8:42pm, K-9 wrote:Anyone.............................................Anyone...... ............???
Sorry, couldn't resist. |
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vig
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #7 on: Oct 7th, 2004, 10:23pm » |
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I think if they knew why that happened, they'd be well on their way to figuring this out.
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Charlie
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #8 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 1:39am » |
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I think it's just a change in chemistry when you fall asleep. Just a guess though.
Charlie
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Superpain
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #9 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 2:17am » |
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Something to do with decreased levels of adrenaline and increased levels of... seratonin...??? Maybe... Or something like that.
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Chris
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #10 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 10:44am » |
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There is also supposedly a high instance of sleep apnea amongst clusterheads. The apnea usually reveals itself during REM sleep. The low O2 saturation in the blood due to apnea may be triggering the attacks, at least for some.
Gator
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Bob P
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #11 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 11:17am » |
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Quote:Cataplexy-active neurons in the hypothalamus: implications for the role of histamine in sleep and waking behavior.
John J, Wu MF, Boehmer LN, Siegel JM.
Neurobiology Research (151A3), Veterans Administration Greater Los Angeles Healthcare System, North Hills, CA 91343, USA.
Noradrenergic, serotonergic, and histaminergic neurons are continuously active during waking, reduce discharge during NREM sleep, and cease discharge during REM sleep. |
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Did a search for REM hypothalamus and got lots of hits, most way too technical for me. I'd look to that freakin hypothingy for the answer.
One article said that REM is when you get your night woody.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2004, 11:56am by Bob P » |
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
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don
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #12 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 11:45am » |
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REM sleep ? Its the one thing thing that doesn't effect us while we are awake.
Brain activity.
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Donna_H
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #13 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 12:44pm » |
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I thought we were talking about REM sleep, not golf. What? OH! (blush).
I know I've seen articles re: the decrease in oxygen when we are asleep and breathing slower, thus causing a ch.
Also please see the post "RE:The beast and the night" where this thread continues.
Bob, you're not giving yourself the credit you deserve on this one.
Where are all of the articles you posted on Serotonin and the 5 horsepower whatever? Even if you feel they are not related, I think the newer membership would appreciate that info and perhaps find more answers themselves in the archives.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2004, 12:46pm by Donna_H » |
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One black day (Oct. 2, 2004) my post count of 1200 something, went back down to one. I'm an "old timer" in more ways than one.
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Bob P
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #14 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 2:36pm » |
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Here's another article in the OUCH Library:
http://www.clusterheadaches.org/library/serotonin/sleep.htm
Geez, all that 5HT talk was years ago in the old message board. I do have tons of 5HT articles on my hard drive at home. Hope someday to sort through them and make some sense of it all.
These articles basically say that during REM, 5HT production stops. Since 5HT controls the contraction of the smooth muscle surrounding the blood vessels it could be that the lack of 5HT allows the blood vessels to expand, putting pressure on the nerve and causing the pain. Just a guess. Could also be that REM makes the hypothing do strange stuff and cause the attack.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2004, 2:40pm by Bob P » |
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
"SHUT UP HUB!"
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JJA
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #15 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 3:06pm » |
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I always thought the attacks came with REM sleep because of the sudden increase of blood flow.
http://www.sro.org/pdf/2916.pdf
This article doesn't mention CH but, but tells a little about increase in cerebral brain flow during REM sleep. I think Bob P's serotonin comments are interesting. I'm not sure how long it would take the stopping of serotonin production to affect serotonin release, but that seems like a good guess.
Jesse
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Jeepgun
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #16 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 3:40pm » |
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I thought maybe it was related to getting wood. Not enough blood getting to the hypothalumathingie, resulting in one bi-yotch of a headache...  Maybe that's why only men get cluster headaches.
*ducking and dodging hurled produce, laughing my azz off...* 
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Bob P
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #17 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 4:10pm » |
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Actually Jeep, I was being polite. The article also said it is when the ladies get clitoral hard-ons.
Here's one where it says REM doesn't matter:
http://www.pahlow.net/temp/narcolepsy.pdf
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
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ArCane
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #18 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 4:18pm » |
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on Oct 8th, 2004, 3:40pm, Jeepgun wrote:I thought maybe it was related to getting wood. Not enough blood getting to the hypothalumathingie, resulting in one bi-yotch of a headache... Maybe that's why only men get cluster headaches.
*ducking and dodging hurled produce, laughing my azz off...* |
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ROFLMAO!!!
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Donna_H
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #19 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 4:24pm » |
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Great start Bob, and thanks. I know you did tons and tons of work in research.
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Former ch sufferer (28 yrs.) , current supporter to my 33 yr old son.
One black day (Oct. 2, 2004) my post count of 1200 something, went back down to one. I'm an "old timer" in more ways than one.
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Jeepgun
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #20 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 4:34pm » |
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on Oct 8th, 2004, 4:10pm, Bob P wrote:| Actually Jeep, I was being polite. The article also said it is when the ladies get clitoral hard-ons. |
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Actually, I knew that, too. (I actually retained SOME of my physiology classes!) 
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Bob P
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #21 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 5:06pm » |
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I agree with ya though on the "only men ...."
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
"SHUT UP HUB!"
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Donna_H
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #22 on: Oct 8th, 2004, 5:35pm » |
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Hey girls..gather 'round the campfire.
Now, what was that about "only men?" They whine at a Kip 4?
Margi................and Miss Holloway, and.......... H E L P !
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Former ch sufferer (28 yrs.) , current supporter to my 33 yr old son.
One black day (Oct. 2, 2004) my post count of 1200 something, went back down to one. I'm an "old timer" in more ways than one.
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Sean_C
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #23 on: Oct 9th, 2004, 1:24pm » |
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Living with the beast during the day is one thing..........
Living with the fear of sleep is another.............
ALL of us have this in common..............100%, as far as I know regarding the wake-up clusters, and I wanted to gather some info...............thanks for the links and info you guys have gathered over the years
Sean................................
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| « Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2004, 1:26pm by Sean_C » |
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maria9
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Re: The beast and the night....................
« Reply #24 on: Oct 9th, 2004, 7:33pm » |
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Ok, I'll bite on this one....."only men get clusters"...
K. Ekbom, conclusions from the Cluster Club meeting in Rome 9/2003, ..."the male preponderance of CH has been shown to be progressively decreasing over the years."...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed &dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15274514
I wonder why? You males have been claiming this malady as your own, over the years, so the females with this disease have been improperly diagnosed over the last 4 decades at least. Surely another example of a malecentric and male perpetuated phenomenon.
And one more thing, you guys think you have the corner of the market in terms of suffering. And while a few of you males might agree that some females maybe, just maybe, might have cluster headaches only males can truly suffer from cluster headaches.
Ok guys put that in your pipe and smoke it!
,
Marsha (an episodic who had 130+ headaches in her last 7 week cycle)
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