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Topic: Cluster Theory? (Read 361 times) |
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Carl_D
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I shared this with a few people at convention who believe this could be a possibility, and I have posted this before.
I have a theory as to the cause of Clusters.
What if the head is merely suffering the symptom of a problem elsewhere in the body? It has been proven by research that the brain can rejuvenate cells. When someone experiences pain, the first part of the brain to get the signal is the Hypothalamus. It would make sense that since Clusterheads are constantly subject to extreme pain, that the Hypothalamus is working overtime. Therefore, with the Hypothalamus receiving so many signals so often, it becomes enlarged.
Just as the enlargement of the Hypothalamus is not easily detected with most tests, MAYBE there is a defect in the heart that isn't necessarily detectable by Ekgs, or other tests. I believe there could be a defect in the heart, or elsewhere in the circulatory system. That could be why they haven't found the cause for CH yet. They could be looking for the cause in the head while it is suffering the symptom of a problem elsewhere, and just maybe that is why they can't pinpoint the cause of CH. Does this make sense to anyone else? Just my own personal theory.
Peace,
Carl D
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Jeepgun
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That makes a lot of sense, Carl. Very interesting theory!
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cootie
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Re: Cluster Theory?
« Reply #2 on: Jul 26th, 2004, 9:19pm » |
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Brad got hit int he head with a hammer someone dropped from a garage roof while helpin install a huge old satillite dish......does that count ? Cuz after that is when they started up......but his mom told him his great grandma had some sort of severe headaches and used to hold a wet rag on the side of her face or head. No one has any idea if it was clusters or not.....too long ago and no one has any more info that that. Wham bam slam Pam
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Cause and Effect......"Cause is the effect concealed, Effect is the cause revealed"
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don
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Yup. Makes sense.
But with these wierd ass headaches
my mother not saying she loved me enough when I was a toddler is plausable to.
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floridian
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The whole 'cause' of clusters is a huge chicken and egg problem.
It's clear that the headaches are only the most visible symptom of a disease that is widespread through the body. Even episodics are different 24/7/365 - not just for a few hours per day for 2 months per year.
The hypothalamus is different, but its not clear why.
In clusterheads, blood cell membranes are different. Choline levels are low. Blood coagulates differently. Magnesium is often low. Receptors for adenylate cyclase and some adrenaline compounds are whacked. Cellular metabolism is different. The immune system is altered. The list goes on.
The hypothalamus/serotonin angle gets lots of attention because it does reduce pain. That's good, but its not a good idea to assume that other parts of the brain and other neurotransmitters are not important.
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Jeepgun
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Immune system? That's interesting... I wonder how often clusterheads get sick, and if it differs from the ordinary population. I've had one cavity in my entire life, never had mumps, measles, and didn't get chickenpox until I was 22 years old. I've had the flu twice in my life: When I was 6 years old, and again, when I was 23. About six years ago, I had strep throat and a fever that landed me in bed for a day. Other than that, I never get sick, have no allergies, and have had almost a preternatural resistance to ordinary diseases, even when I was working in a hospital.
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don
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Thats a good point Jeep.
I've been incredibly healthy my entire life. Considering I tried my best to poison myself with alcohol and toxins for about three decades, thats quite a feat. I have smoked a least a pack a day since my teens and consume gallons of coffee daily.
In fact I have Hepatitus C, have had it for many years, and have been, for the most part, asymptomatic.
Other than an exploding appendix, I have never required any type of surgical procedure. Blood pressure is great. Heart rate good.
I get common colds once in awhile but thats about it.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2004, 12:36pm by don » |
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aprilbee
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Re: Cluster Theory?
« Reply #7 on: Jul 27th, 2004, 12:42pm » |
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I've always been a healthy person too...when I was younger, the shot that they give you for measels and rubella (sp?) didn't take, I could have contracted either one because I wasn't properlly inocculated...they didn't discover it until I was pregnant, I had to get the shot after I delivered my daughter...I had chicken pox and the flu maybe once in my entire life!! I don't have allergies, this is a very interesing topic. 
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Racer1_NC
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Re: Cluster Theory?
« Reply #8 on: Jul 27th, 2004, 12:45pm » |
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I believe that we have a gene that makes CH possible, but that alone doesn't cause it. I think other external factors have to be present for CH to appear. What they are, I have no idea. They could range from head injury, stubbing your toe as a kid, chemical exposure, or anything else you can come up with. So far I see no 100% common thread among us. Weird stuff these clusters.........
Bill
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Jeepgun
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on Jul 27th, 2004, 12:45pm, Racer1_NC wrote:| Weird stuff these clusters......... |
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Yes, but they do stay crunchy in milk...
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aprilbee
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Re: Cluster Theory?
« Reply #10 on: Jul 27th, 2004, 12:52pm » |
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on Jul 27th, 2004, 12:49pm, Jeepgun wrote:
Yes, but they do stay crunchy in milk...
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 LOL...funny
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Racer1_NC
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Re: Cluster Theory?
« Reply #11 on: Jul 27th, 2004, 12:54pm » |
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on Jul 27th, 2004, 12:49pm, Jeepgun wrote:
Yes, but they do stay crunchy in milk...
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Figures....I like mine soggy..... 
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"Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime."
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KingOfPain
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Re: Cluster Theory?
« Reply #12 on: Jul 27th, 2004, 1:06pm » |
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on Jul 27th, 2004, 12:11pm, Jeepgun wrote:| Immune system? That's interesting... I wonder how often clusterheads get sick, and if it differs from the ordinary population. I've had one cavity in my entire life, never had mumps, measles, and didn't get chickenpox until I was 22 years old. I've had the flu twice in my life: When I was 6 years old, and again, when I was 23. About six years ago, I had strep throat and a fever that landed me in bed for a day. Other than that, I never get sick, have no allergies, and have had almost a preternatural resistance to ordinary diseases, even when I was working in a hospital. |
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Me:
____________________________________________
CH
Osteoarthritis, right & left hands/wrists
Carpal Tunnel, right & left hands/wrists
Tendonitis, right & left hands/wrists
Restless Leg Syndrome [RLS]
Mitral Valve Prolapse
hereditary Bronchitis
hooked on Clusterheadaches.com
____________________________________________
Guess there is an exception to every rule.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2004, 1:09pm by KingOfPain » |
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Jeepgun
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Not necessarily, KOP: Those things are musculo-skeletal or hereditary, and have nothing to do with the immune system.
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Jayne
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Re: Cluster Theory?
« Reply #14 on: Jul 27th, 2004, 1:21pm » |
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I've had the Flu once in my life....not many colds at all.
One ear infection.
THAT"S IT
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don
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This is getting interesting.
Jeep is right KOP. Those conditions aren't related to the immune system. Hep C certainly is and I've been asymptomatic.
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Georgia
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Re: Cluster Theory?
« Reply #16 on: Jul 27th, 2004, 1:52pm » |
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Carl -
I think its a very vaild point that the CH could be a symptom of a problem in some other part of the body. What doesn't jive for me when thinking of the heart is when I think about remission, episodics, clock-like timing of the headaches, etc. Charlie for example...if it were a heart problem, did it just get better all of a sudden and stop his headaches for 13 (?) years now? And for the people who have a cluster every fall, why would the symptoms of a heart problem only appear once a year? at a certain time of day? stop? start again?
I dunno. Very interesting topic though.
As far as immune systems - I get sick a lot. Mononucleosis when I was 7 ( I started kissin' real young), recurrent strep throat and ear infections all my life, colds, flus, cat scratch fever or the bubonic plaque - they weren't quite sure which after the biopsy, blah blah.
Peace and love,
Georgia
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CJohnson
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Re: Cluster Theory?
« Reply #17 on: Jul 27th, 2004, 1:56pm » |
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on Jul 27th, 2004, 12:45pm, Racer1_NC wrote:| So far I see no 100% common thread among us. |
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Smoking like a chimney is pretty damn close to 100%.
PFDANs
-Curtis
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Racer1_NC
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Re: Cluster Theory?
« Reply #18 on: Jul 27th, 2004, 2:00pm » |
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on Jul 27th, 2004, 1:56pm, CJohnson wrote:
Smoking like a chimney is pretty damn close to 100%.
PFDANs
-Curtis
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Not 100%, but close.....I know a few that do not, and have not ever smoked.
Bill
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"Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime."
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floridian
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Most of the interesting immune work has been done in Italy - here are two abstracts that cover it pretty well.
Quote: Ann Ital Med Int. 1990 Jul-Sep;5(3 Pt 3):303-11.
New findings in cluster headache.
Giacovazzo M.
Cattedra di Patologia Speciale Medica e Metodologia Clinica VI, Universita degli Studi, Roma La Sapienza, Italy.
The clinical profile of cluster headache, in Italy better known as "Horton's histaminic headache" is described. The Author makes an inventory of all pathogenetic theories about this excruciating pain syndrome that strikes men more than women. On the basis of findings of the Author and his School over a ten-year period, there is a "periodic lack of immunitary oversee". The salient points of various stages of this study are: low frequency of HLA-B14 antigen with, in contrast, high frequency of the HLA-DR5 antigen of the major histocompatibility system. The HLA B18 antigen of the same major histocompatibility system has been found in patients who respond to lithium therapy. A lack of the HLA-B18 antigen has been found in cluster headache patients who are "non-responders" to lithium therapy. Low titers of antibody response in the pain free periods of these subjects, and high titers in the painful periods has also been found in the serum of cluster headache patients; the lack of alpha 1-antitrypsin in basal conditions; increase of IgE (PRIST) values in painful periods; high titers of C1qSp and KgBt circulating immuno-complexes. The cellular immunity studies of the patients showed an increase of the leukocyte subpopulations Leu7+ and Leu M3+. Besides, the natural killer function that contributes to the defense-mechanism against viral disease, was very low. High titers of anti-herpes simplex 1 and 2 viruses and anti-Epstein-Barr virus have been found in cluster headache patients and in a few observations of Burkitt's lymphoma with associated cluster headache, studied in Sahel area too.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
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Quote:Headache. 1996 May;36(5):312-5.
Putative neuroimmunological mechanisms in cluster headache. An integrated hypothesis.
Martelletti P, Giacovazzo M.
Department of Clinical Medicine, Headache Centre, University La Sapienza, Rome, Italy.
During the last decade, numerous studies have been carried out to explore the function of the immune system in cluster headache and the release of reciprocal informational molecules from pain-sensitive structures. These neuroimmunological findings in cluster headache syndrome, although carefully considered, have varied from genetic aspects (HLA antigens) to functional activity of the immune system (NK cytotoxicity), and from study of the receptor expression of classical neurotransmitters of pain (5-HT, histamine) on immunocompetent cells, to the study of cytokines with a potent pro-inflammatory activity (interleukin-1). Other aspects considered have ranged from the study of the effectiveness of substances possessing a wellknown activity on the immune system (prednisone, lithium carbonate) in shortening cluster attacks to the 5-HT receptor expression changes observed on a peripheral substrate (monocytes) after the administration of sumatriptan. Although this was an exciting area of pioneering research, we have always interpreted our findings cautiously. In summary, we now believe that the neuroimmunological aspects of cluster headache can be proposed as an integrative model and that this immunological mechanism could improve our understanding of the pathogenic basis for this still obscure disease. |
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Jeepgun
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Very interesting stuff... I'm going to write a blues song entitled, "O Doctor, What's Wrong With My Head." 
-Blind Melon Jeepgun
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floridian
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Just came across this on the heart and clusters
Quote:Riv Eur Sci Med Farmacol. 1989 Aug;11(4):301-5.
[Aspects of organ-specific autoimmunity in cluster headache]
[Article in Italian]
Giacovazzo M, Di Sabato F, Ruggieri L, Martelletti P.
Fourty-eight cluster headache patients have been studied. Twenty-nine of them were affected also by rhythm cardiac abnormalities, and the other 19 by associated conjunctival hyperaemia. The presence of organ-specific autoantibodies was investigated by immunofluorescence. High titers of antibodies against cardiac antigenic determinants was found. The study of leukocyte subpopulations revealed a parallel increase in blood and in conjunctival mucosa of Leu7+ and LeuM3+ cells. These outcomes confirm the immunopathological theory of cluster headache. |
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jhammer
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Re: Cluster Theory?
« Reply #22 on: Aug 1st, 2004, 1:09am » |
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I've been pretty healthy my whole life. I got the mumps when I was three, other than that I've got nothing else on my record really. Just a bunch of broken bones, cavities, cuts, bumps, bruises.
Oh wait...I've had my heart broken a million times...does that count? 
A wierd thing has occured to me recently though, right after my first cluster attack (about 3 years ago) I got a strange pain in my 'gut area' I guess you would call it that. It was directly to the right of my belly button on my side kinda. It lasted for about another month afterthe headaches went away, then it too dissappeared. After this last cluster, my second, I started to get the same pain again only it hasn't evolved to point it did the last time...yet. I saw the doc for it back then but never got a diagnosis. It hasn't really bothered me enough this time to make an appointment. I wonder if it could be related?
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