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Topic: Re: OD'ed on PC (Read 1691 times) |
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Tim_Z
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« on: May 25th, 2004, 9:51pm » |
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seen this before and I agree
I personally am sick of political correctness
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floridian
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Quote:| "In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. |
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Um, the clearly documented original motto of the United States is E Pluribus Unum ... Sounds an acknowledgement of diversity to me - and its not even in English! In God We Trust was added to coinage in 1864 - a political crisis (the war between the states) triggered a crisis in faith, and the Union wanted everyone to know that God was on their side.
Making "The Replacement Motto" (In God We Trust) official goes all the way back to 1956, not to the founding of the nation. The switcheroo was pulled when America was suffering from the mass psychosis of McCarthyism. In God We trust did not make its way on to all paper money until 1966.
The word God does not appear in the United States Constitution. Were the founding fathers such goofs that they just forgot?? No, the document is secular. Most of the men who drafted the Constitution had religious beliefs, but the great charter was intentionally silent and neutral on matters of doctrine and private conscience. As an immediate afterthought, the secular nature of the government was reinforced by ammending the Constitution to keep government out of the religion business.
Political correctness sucks. So does fundamental correctness and factual incorectness. I would highly encourage the simpletons who know so little about the history of the US to invest a little time and read about what really happened. Four of our 43 presidents were Unitarian Universalist - an organization with no set doctrine, and not really Christian. Three other presidents (including Thomas Jefferson) were not affiliated with any organized religion, although they did have religious beliefs (but were not necessarily Christian).
There is no religion test for US citizenship. For those applying for citizenship, there is a test on the US Constitution and political system. And the newcomers know far more about this country's Constitution and history than the yayhoos that write tripe like that published in the Tampa paper. Too many Americans feel like they are entitled to the world on a platter because they were born. Passing a US citizenship test should be required for anyone who claims the priveleges that go with it - people who don't know what the feck they are talking about shouldn't have a say.
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2004, 12:25am by floridian » |
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Gator
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #2 on: May 26th, 2004, 3:19am » |
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Right on KOP! Regardless of any minor or major problems with the wording or facts in the published piece, I fully and wholeheartedly agree with the spirit and intent of it. I, for one (and obviously one of many), am proud to be an American and everything that this country stands for. I am tired of these thin skinned apologists who blame rich, dead, white, American men for all the world's problems. I am tired of all the so-called Americans that let them. If you truly are unhappy here, if you really don't like the country, the culture, the language, the freedoms, the responsibilities then please leave and take as many of your anti-American friends and family members as you can possibly carry with you.
Gator
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BobG
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #3 on: May 26th, 2004, 4:40am » |
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I've never pretended to be politically correct. I'll say what I have to say and if I offend someone tough shit. If you don't like what I have to say then just walk away. Or, I'm not hard to find. Come on over and we'll discuss it.
About the immigrants to America.....I have nothing against anyone coming here with the dreams of a better life. But once they're here it is their responsibility to adapt to American ways. Or go back home.
If you came here legally then you have a right to buy the house next to mine. But, you do not have the right to fuck up the neighborhood and drag down my property values. It is your right to hold a job. But, it is not your right to work for under-the-table cash, pay no income taxes on it and then send it out of this country.
And ....... In God We Trust used in federal documents is a Protestant thing, not Christian. But nowhere does it say that God is Protestant, Jewish, Hindu, Christian, Muslim or of any religion. It simply means to trust in the God of your choice.
And if anyone doesn't like what I have to say they have the right to click that little X in the upper right corner of their screen.
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Woobie
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #4 on: May 26th, 2004, 5:43am » |
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on May 26th, 2004, 4:40am, BobG wrote:
And ....... In God We Trust used in federal documents is a Protestant thing, not Christian. But nowhere does it say that God is Protestant, Jewish, Hindu, Christian, Muslim or of any religion. It simply means to trust in the God of your choice.
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Right on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and that's all I have to say about that...........
tina
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aprilbee
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #5 on: May 26th, 2004, 9:28am » |
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I'm with KOP, et al....
I pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands.
ONE nation UNDER GOD, Indivisible with liberty and justice for ALL.
 I'm PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!!!
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Killroy 2.0
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #6 on: May 26th, 2004, 9:47am » |
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Proud to be an American and proud to be not so politically correct that I stand for nothing.
We as a country have gone too far!!! We have immobilized ourselves with the fear of offending someone.
What once made our country great is now sending it down the toilet.
Freedom or Freedom from others Freedom???
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floridian
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By 'having a say' I didn't mean the rights to free speech, assemble into groups, or petition the government, which I put into the category of fundamental rights. I was referring to voting, holding office, and other activities limited to citizens.
People can't drive unless they prove they are familiar with the rules of the road. But they can vote even if they don't know what the main branches of government are, what the difference is between the Senate and House, etc. ... there is no responsibility. People can't vote if they are under age 18, because they are deemed immature and unable to constructively participate. In many states, being a felon disqualifes a person from voting - a person with a felonious character is considered damaging to democracy. But being an ignoramus is not recognized as a problem. Don't know the difference between Iraq and Iran?? Can't understand the magnitude of millions, billions and trillions of dollars of budget deficit?? No problem - just step into the voting booth and help decide these policies. Don't need an understanding of facts - just pick which 30 second TV commercials you like. Which candidate projects the best leadership qualities?? Which presses your emotional hot buttons??
Quote:| If you truly are unhappy here, if you really don't like the country, the culture, the language, the freedoms, the responsibilities then please leave and take as many of your anti-American friends and family members as you can possibly carry with you. |
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Why do you think I (or others whose views are different that yours) are truly unhappy here?? You started the whine. You are confusing "the way we do things" with "the way you want things." You don't like some things about this country, and you are trying to change them to your liking. I don't like some things either, though my concerns are different from yours. Your 'love it or leave it' attitude is a false dichotomy - like the old 'have you stopped beating your wife?' bit. Accepting the false dichotomy distorts the situation - love it and try to improve it is a valid alternative.
The culture has never been one thing, it has always been lots of things, changing over time. The language? Not really an issue, virtually all migrants learn English. Older people have trouble, but most learn enough to get by and virtually all want their kids to speak English. The responsibilities?? Yeah, people should follow the law, should contribute to society while they pursue their own goals. The freedoms? Like the freedom to practice their own culture?? The freedom to change things they don't agree with?? Those are freedoms that your rant argues against.
Quote:| Regardless of any minor or major problems with the wording or facts in the published piece, I fully and wholeheartedly agree with the spirit and intent of it. |
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Conservatives complain about moral relativisim while they promote factual relativism. Having a patriotic attitude is fine. But if voters are clueless, then democracy is degraded.
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2004, 10:41am by floridian » |
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Racer1_NC
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #8 on: May 26th, 2004, 11:01am » |
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on May 26th, 2004, 10:26am, floridian wrote:
People can't drive unless they prove they are familiar with the rules of the road. But they can vote even if they don't know what the main branches of government are, what the difference is between the Senate and House, etc. ... there is no responsibility. People can't vote if they are under age 18, because they are deemed immature and unable to constructively participate. In many states, being a felon disqualifes a person from voting - a person with a felonious character is considered damaging to democracy. But being an ignoramus is not recognized as a problem. Don't know the difference between Iraq and Iran?? Can't understand the magnitude of millions, billions and trillions of dollars of budget deficit?? No problem - just step into the voting booth and help decide these policies. Don't need an understanding of facts - just pick which 30 second TV commercials you like. Which candidate projects the best leadership qualities?? Which presses your emotional hot buttons??
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Floridian....
While I must admit you and I rarely share the same side of a political issue, the above statement is exactly how I feel about voters in general. It troubles me no end the lack of understanding the general population has about the issues we as a country face. Votes cast on the basis of a 30 second TV spot have decided more elections than we'll ever know.
I have no problem with someone that has at least a basic understanding of an issue having a different opinion than I do. Different people come to different conclusions when faced with the same facts. What I can't respect is someone who spouts an opinion and then can't explain to me WHY or HOW they came to believe it. This applies to both the left and the right.
I will say however, that I do believe that English should be the primary language used in this country. When my grandparents came to America in the early part of the 20th century, they had to learn to speak English and adapt to the cultures of the time. There were no mulitlingual signs, government outreach programs, or people bending over backwards to cater to them. They learned, adapted, and became successful, productive people in this country. I don't see a problem with todays LEGAL immigrants having to do the same.
Bill
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"Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime."
Eventus stultorum magister.
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floridian
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I agree that English is a unifying factor in our culture - Canada with the English/French is weaker, Yugoslavia was weakened by multiple languages, and the European Union is hampered by the many languages. But an even bigger effect on the breakup of Yugoslavia was the totalitarian supression of minority cultures under Tito.
For the record, my father spoke almost no English when he was young. He is a sucessful professional who makes his living in a position based on the English language. English is a second language for my wife, who is quite fluent. I agree that language is an important skill and immigrants should adapt. And I think that is happening for the most part.
Pennsylvannia was officially bi-lingual until 1815, and German is still the main language for 120,000 Amish and Mennonites in the US practicing their religious and cultural freedom.
Bill - I agree that the emotional decision making process is a problem for both the left and right. People are bound to disagree, but its less of a problem if they do so rationally.
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2004, 11:28am by floridian » |
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ckelly181
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #10 on: May 26th, 2004, 11:56am » |
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Eu aprecío ler seus bornes, floridian. Você é muito bem-well-versed e insightful. Eu amo meu homeland.
Chris
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thomas
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DEMOCRACY IS DEAD AND HAS BEEN FOR DECADES! WAKE UP PEOPLE.
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Leesa
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #12 on: May 26th, 2004, 12:59pm » |
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Damn Proud to be AMERICAN!! Love it or Leave it is the way I see it!!
Leesa, that never has nor will EVER be politically correct!!
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forgetfulnot
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All I can say is I drive on the right but vote on the left, well most of the time.
Comprenda?
Lee
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Gator
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #14 on: May 26th, 2004, 5:41pm » |
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floridian,
I must admit that I agree with you that American citizens should take it upon themselves to know about their government, it's parts and the functions of those parts. They should be familiar with their constitution and laws. They should study the issues and where the candidates stand on those issues. All those things are true. It's not reality, but it is true none the less.
As far as me confusing "the way we do things" with "the way you want things." You are wrong. This country was founded on the basis of personal and religious freedom. People on both sides of an issue have rights. People have the right to try to change things within the framework set up to do so. Others have the right to reject those changes and vote them down if it comes to that. Kind of like when the Dixie Chicks made those comments about the president. They had every right to make them. People had every right to reject them and not to listen to their music. Radio stations quit playing their songs at the audiences request, but the Dixie Chicks did not respect the rights of the listeners. No. They went to congress to try to force the radio stations to play their music again against the peoples' and the stations' will. It seems to be that way with liberals. They are all for "their" right to speak. They are against everyone else's right not to listen. You understand your rights. You just don't understand, everyone else's.
Please tell us all what it is that makes you so "truly unhappy" here in this country? Just what are your concerns? What have you done, within the legal framework, to change this? I have made no bones about mine. You see, you are doing just what liberals are doing in this election year. They are crying about the way conservatives are doing things, but giving no specific plans on how they would do it better. I'm all wrong, but you don't have to express an opionion, just blast mine or anyone else's that doesn't agree with you.
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floridian
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Gator,
your mention of the Dixies Chicks brings up a number of issues. Yes, if they piss people off, they might experience a drop in air play and sales. That's the way the world works. They did testify in front of Congress, but it was not an attempt to force stations to play their music. The issue was the growth of conglomerates like Clear Channel, which own over 1000 radio stations. Not only did Clear Channel blacklist the Dixie Chicks, they also fired DJs who in any way questioned the rush to war. They are also questions on possibly illegal leveraging of their market control to gain greater control of the concert industry. The growth of these conglomerates is due to specific policies of the FCC, and Congressional hearings would have been held with or without Ms. Manes.
Conglomerates like Clear Channel have replaced live, local programming with canned programming originating in distant studios. Local news, traffic reports, emergency broadcasts (other than the EBS) have all suffered. Radio request shows are a total fraud (the play list is already determined from a central office - if some one calls in to request a song that is next on the list, that 'request' is played.) If this were happening to a media like cable, I would say 'c'est la vie' - thats the way the market goes. But the radio spectrum is a limited resource owned by the public. Broadcast radio and television stations operate on a license of this resource, and it is fair to establish guidelines that require local content or limit ownership. Free markets only work when there is easy entry and exit - ie, companies can easily get into and out of the broadcast radio and TV business. That is not the case because the spectrum is limited, and the so called 'conservative' policies in the FCC have favored oligopoly and reduced competition. Coincidentally, the companies that profitted the most are big contributors to the administration that promotes those policies.
What do I think should be done? Stop giving away the candy store. For every dollar the government receives in timber leases on public land, it spends several dollars to build roads so the logging companies can remove the trees - we are actually paying the companies to take public resources, not charging them! The current administration wants to accelerate logging under the guise of fire control, although the timber leases that companies get are of mature timber far from the city, while the fire risk is from commercially worthless scrub or private timber close to the city.
Bush's Medicare bill?? It favors pharmaceutical companies and prevents the government from negotiating a fair price on drugs. Do I need to rehash the details of other heinous behaviors of the pharmaceutical industry on this board?? The government can and should reign in that behavior, but the current government would rather profit from the stranglehold of the drug companies.
Tax cuts?? Tax cuts in a time of deficit are a way of redistributing wealth - it is being stolen from our children. Can we really afford trillion dollar tax cuts while we pile up multi-trillion dollar debts??
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| « Last Edit: May 27th, 2004, 10:07am by floridian » |
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Woobie
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #16 on: May 27th, 2004, 10:12am » |
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OK ya'll....
get all this shit out in the open now - cuz we ain't arguing politics or religion at the convention.........OK?
them's the rules........... 
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| « Last Edit: May 27th, 2004, 10:16am by Woobie » |
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Jeepgun
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Since we all seem to be "gettin' some," on this thread, I have my own rant:
Saw a great bumper sticker the other day:
"Bandwagon America: Loving my country since 9/11."
For all of the Americans who couldn't give a shit about their nation on 9/10, who hurried out and bought an American flag on 9/12; if THAT's what patriotism is, they can all kiss my ass.
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JDH
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #18 on: May 27th, 2004, 12:21pm » |
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I miss Ted on these kind of threads 
Jim
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thomas
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on May 27th, 2004, 12:01pm, Jeepgun wrote:Since we all seem to be "gettin' some," on this thread, I have my own rant:
Saw a great bumper sticker the other day:
"Bandwagon America: Loving my country since 9/11."
For all of the Americans who couldn't give a shit about their nation on 9/10, who hurried out and bought an American flag on 9/12; if THAT's what patriotism is, they can all kiss my ass. |
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LMAO, Frank, I feel the same way, I coined the phrase "Nickle Patriotism" on 9/13. Lol, that's about all it's worth.
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Charlie
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #20 on: May 27th, 2004, 5:05pm » |
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I happen to believe that the English language has a lot to do with how we live here. It's a good thing to insist on. This I agree with and some other stuff. As for this thing being founded by bible thumpers, nothing could be further from the truth. Lots of agnostics, deists, and Unitarians. One of the big guys is Jefferson:
These are some of his writings in letters and speeches:
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own
And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors
You'll find a couple pro-JC quotes too. Had to have one or two 200 years ago or else. Great thing the church.
Charlie
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| « Last Edit: May 27th, 2004, 5:06pm by Charlie » |
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jonny
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Fuck the Douchey chicks, as of 9/11 we should be pulling every single olive skinned , middle eastern looking person out of every plane, train, ferry or bus line......Fuck "PC".....your feelings are hurt?....go the fuck home. If they happen to be US citizens to fucking bad, chalk it up to home land security and their security.
This "PC" shit is going to get so many people killed
Got a visa?....get the fuck out!
Dont got a visa?.....Get the fuck out!
Student visa?.....get the fuck out!
Line the border with the military to protect our country, I dont want to hear that these bastards are already here, Why are they here?.....Someone fucked up by sending our boys over there while these fucks were walking into this country.
I live four minutes from Boston so if a chemical weapon goes off during the convention I could be in the path ( Although I highly doubt it seeing that the bad guys want Kerry to win.....LMAO )
Just my opinion
........................................jonny
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Gator
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Re: OD'ed on PC
« Reply #22 on: May 28th, 2004, 10:31am » |
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Regardless of what investigations were going on or congress' reason for listening to them, the Dixie Slits were not being noble. They were upset that people were exercising their right not to listen to them and were striking back.
Quote:| The current administration wants to accelerate logging under the guise of fire control, although the timber leases that companies get are of mature timber far from the city, while the fire risk is from commercially worthless scrub or private timber close to the city. |
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Okay, let's just see what this terrible administration has been up to in the forestry industry:
Republican Representative James Leach introduced the National Forest Protection and Restoration Act of 2004
Republican Representative Scott McInnis introduced the "Healthy Forests Restoration Act of 2003."
Republican Senator Susan Collins introduced a bill to amend the Cooperative Forestry Assistance Act of 1978 to establish a program to provide assistance to States and nonprofit organizations to preserve suburban forest land and open space and contain suburban sprawl, and for other purposes.
Republican Representative Greg Walden introduced a bill to amend the Cooperative Forestry Assistance Act of 1978 to establish a program using geospatial and information management technologies to inventory, monitor, characterize, assess, and identify forest stands and potential forest stands, and for other purposes.
Republican Senator Olympia Snowe introduced Reforestation Tax Act of 2003
Republican Representative John Shadegg introduced the Wildfire Prevention and Forest Health Protection Act
All these bills were introduced to save taxpayers money, reduce the deficit, cut corporate welfare, protect communities from wildfires, encourage Federal land management agency reform and accountability, and protect and restore America's natural heritage by eliminating the fiscally wasteful and ecologically destructive commercial logging program on Federal public lands, restoring native biodiversity in our Federal public forests, and facilitating the economic recovery and diversification of communities affected by the Federal logging program.
The fires that decimated the forests and people last year were caused by environmentalist policies keeping the forestry services from clearing out the undergrowth in the forrests. In a National Forest, it is/was illegal to pick up and remove even dead and fallen limbs, because the environmentalist wackos convinced the right people that that is how "Nature intended it." The new policies that they are trying to put into place now allow for the clearing of the scrub which has been allowed to build up because of the hands off policies. BTW Did you know that due to our practices of harvesting and re-planting there are more acres of forest now than there ever have been?
Quote:| Tax cuts?? Tax cuts in a time of deficit are a way of redistributing wealth - it is being stolen from our children. Can we really afford trillion dollar tax cuts while we pile up multi-trillion dollar debts?? |
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The IRS and the federal income tax system were originally supposed to be a temporary measure to pay for the Civil War. It was enacted in 1862 and repealed 10 years later. Congress revived it in 1894, but the Supreme Court found it unconstitutional the following year. Congress had had a taste of money, though and it liked it. Unconstitutional or not, the 16th Amendment to our constitution was ratified in 1913 and we've been screwed ever since.
I wouldn't mind paying taxes for the necessities, but when Uncle Sugar sticks his hand in my pocket for stupid crap like funding studies to find out how to make pickles crunchier or to study the mating habits of animals or to pay for $900 hammers and $500 toilet seats, I get a little pissed.
Taxes, not tax cuts are a vehicle for redistributing wealth. Money is being taken from people who work their butts off, or invest wisely and is being given to people who are capable of working, but won't or to women who become baby factories or to people who don't think ahead enough to provide for their retirement. All the programs to "take care" of people are being funded primarily by the top wage earners of our country. The "evil rich" whom liberals seem to dispise so much are the ones paying most of the taxes. The top 10% of wage earners pay more than 50% of the taxes in this country. It has been proven time and again that tax cuts spur investment which in turn spurs on the economy. Which is what is happening now. No, money is not being stolen from anyones children. It is being given back to the people it was stolen from in the first place.
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| « Last Edit: May 28th, 2004, 10:36am by Gator » |
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floridian
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Quote:| BTW Did you know that due to our practices of harvesting and re-planting there are more acres of forest now than there ever have been? |
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Sure, if you consider a pine plantation a 'forest' (in which case you'd probably consider a suburban lawn a 'prairie').
Yeah, there are Republicans that support reforestation policy, reforestation tax credits and other laws that I (and most people) agree with. Most of these are reauthorization of laws that have been around for a while, and have a constituency.
While all of the laws you mention have very positive titles, those titles don't always go hand in hand with the policies they promote. Nobody wants to say they are against the "Baseball, Apple Pie and Motherhood Act," regardless of what's in the act. "Total Information Awareness" had to be renamed "Terrorist Information Awareness" because the original name made it clear that privacy would suffer and big brother would become bigger. Total information awareness raises all kinds of Constitutional issues (unreasonable search and siezure, reasonable expectation of privacy), while everybody wants to catch the bad guys.
In place of a detailed explanation of how the Bush Administration has worked to roll back environmental protection of public lands, let me just point you to the rapidly growing group of conservative hunters that oppose many of Bush's policies. Hunt clubs in Texas think that their former governor is giving too much to the timber and mineral companies!!
Conservative Sportsmen Turn Against Bush
http://www.galleryofguns.com/shootingtimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp? ID=5520
Its kind of like the criticism Tom Clancy and Gen. Zinni directed against the war in Iraq. Poor decision making at best, corruption at worst.
(At first I thought Tom Clancy was just hired to co-write the book and did it for money. But I found out that he really thinks the policy stinks, and he was about 6 seconds from punching the shit out of Richard Perle when the two got into an argument a while back.)
Of course, General Zinni and Tom Clancy could always move to Cochabamba if they don't like the way we do things here.
Quote:| Taxes, not tax cuts are a vehicle for redistributing wealth. |
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If tax cuts increase the national debt, it leads to an inter-generational transfer of wealth. Unrestrained debt innevitably results in increased taxes, or devaluation of currency (inflation => lost wages and savings, higher prices), or both.
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| « Last Edit: May 28th, 2004, 11:35am by floridian » |
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Jeepgun
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The Dems and the enviro-nazis are the ones with the agenda of cutting access to public land -- Land that you and I pay for with our taxes. Yet, I don't see the fuckin Sierra Club or Greenpeace or any of these other talking anus-holes out there cleaning up ANYTHING! When my offroading club and I go trail-riding, we always take along plenty of trashbags and as we go, we stop along the way and pick up bottles, cans, and all sorts of other garbage. Man.... f*ck those a$$holes. 
The fact that they wouldn't allow forest management and cutting/thinning of diseased trees is EXACTLY what caused the California fires to grow so horribly out of control last year.
(Would you like to know how I really feel about it?
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| « Last Edit: May 28th, 2004, 11:41am by Jeepgun » |
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