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Topic: old school pain medication (Read 2617 times) |
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markiemark
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ok I said I was new, I know were in 2004 but this might be helpful. Im old school and I have my on belief on addiction vs suffering with our Illness. (I smoke cigs!)
The pain med is stadol NS (nasal spray) ERs in california use it (injectable.."shot"ouch), along with morfine and demerol. the nasal spray is under medical protocol with M.D. for CH. Also widely used in canada for first aid kits for the outdoorsman and sporting. This info was on the (teli) T.V outdoor Ch. years ago. M.D. that I have seen stated that the Nasal spray was better than a shot. Also, some med.staff has releated the its stronger than morphine.hope this helps even one that is suffering with the pain. I know I will get in trouble from the new kids on the block but Im a "clusterhead", tuff as aligator skin (pain does strange things to the human).
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thomas
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #1 on: Apr 13th, 2004, 5:52pm » |
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I have never taken any pain medication for my ch, so I can't say whether they would work for me or not, I know otc stuff didn't do anything, thank God I found triptans early in my career.
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BobG
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #2 on: Apr 13th, 2004, 5:56pm » |
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I can't say anything about the stadol since I've never used it.
About pain killers, morphine and demerol.....I think you'll find them useless against a cluster attack. Pain killer just don't work for 99% of us.
You need to get some kind of preventative med such as verapimil. And an abortive med such as imitrex. You may have to search and try many befor you find the ones that work for you. Oxygen is an abortive that many, if not most, clusterheads use.
Until you find the right medicine for you you might try heat or an ice pack. Try sleeping with your head elevated.
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TomM
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #3 on: Apr 13th, 2004, 6:04pm » |
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Well written, Bob.
Mark---read what Bob wrote, again.
Is that PERFECT english??? 
TomM
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markiemark
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #4 on: Apr 13th, 2004, 6:30pm » |
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respectful response!
i agree with you dudes.thomas,bobg,tomm........
Im seasonal not cronic! I abort with O2, prednisone,vepramal no pain meds...see Im bad like y'aaa....but when they get out of control I go to Doc or ER for "RELIEF-RELIEF"it helps, thats what the pain meds "shots too! are for. during the attack nothing helps but our "tuff sprit" to go on another hour! If y'all go through an attack without ever needing to utilize these items maybe u should change you username to the "terminators" Its not my intent to be a smart- - - but you have misinformed me ( I hope) that 99% of clusterheads dont utilize meds for pain. Others please let me know this is not true!!!
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BobG
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #5 on: Apr 13th, 2004, 6:35pm » |
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on Apr 13th, 2004, 6:30pm, markiemark wrote:| - - but you have misinformed me ( I hope) that 99% of clusterheads dont utilize meds for pain. Others please let me know this is not true!!! |
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Maybe I was a little high with the 99%.......let's drop that to 80%.
And you're right, we are a tough bunch.
Tougher than woodpecker lips.
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Lobster
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #6 on: Apr 13th, 2004, 7:04pm » |
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I used Stadol NS a few cycles ago (perhaps 6 years back). It worked in the 'here... just go unconscious for a few hours' kinda way. Up until that point it did nothing for the CH pain.
I still get the 'bucket of hydrocodone' with each epsisode, but it is more a 'recognition of agony' routine that my doctor and I have with our first visit of each episode... kinda like a 'welcome... looks like you are screwed for another 3 months' door prize.
All painkillers are 100% ineffective for me unless they give me the near 'night night... try not to piss all over the floor' dose.
My escape, .15ml-.20ml of sweet Imitrex in the arm... 1/4 to 1/3 of a vial, is 100% effective in 3-5 minutes. Just mentioning that since you did not mention triptans in your post.
Have fun,
Wrok
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| « Last Edit: Apr 13th, 2004, 7:05pm by Lobster » |
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Renee
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #7 on: Apr 13th, 2004, 7:07pm » |
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MarkieMark,
Some appear to suffer from a CH attack for a longer period than others. Some can not seek e.r. assistance prior to the CH ending.
I am one that does have a "rescue plan" in place where I ocassionally have to visit the e.r. for some pain mgmt as my CH can last up to 3 hours. I have had, in the course of my "CH career of 21 years and 8 years of it chronic" been injected with demerol, dilaudid and fentanyl. All were mixed with phenergan. The demerol could never knock the pain before knocking me out cold. The dilaudid f'ed me up SO bad I had no idea if my head hurt or not much less where the floor was but the fentanyl knocked off the edge for me AND was short lasting thus the phenergan outlasted the narcotic so i didn't wake up many hours later stumbling to get to a trash can or toilet to empty my stomach.
Hang in there! Each of us deal with CH in our own ways and each CH beast seems to vary from person to person.
Renee
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23 years of battling the beast, 9 years chronic......uneducated docs/nurses make me irate.
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Linda_Howell
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #8 on: Apr 13th, 2004, 8:06pm » |
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Mark, (Yes, folks. You know I couldn't resist)
For lack of better icons......
This is your brain during an attack. 
This is your brain on narcotics 
any questions?
Not only do Narcotic pain-killers NOT work for clusters, they have the nasty habit of giving rebound headaches from hell. And taken as often as we would need to take them IF they worked...then we'd also have another problem. Addiction.
LindaH
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HypnoticFreddy
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #9 on: Apr 13th, 2004, 8:38pm » |
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My latest Neuro told me that if you absolutely need to ge to an ER, damand a Respitory oxygen team.
They will give you high dosage oxygen.
It is often discussed and medically shown that narcotics, including Stadol NS are not useful in the management of CHs.
-Scott
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Renee
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #10 on: Apr 13th, 2004, 10:11pm » |
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I've never had a rebound ch from narcotics that I know of but the phenergan keeps me sleeping for 24 hours, like a baby, so I wouldn't know. I do know I wake pain free and very rested.
Of course, in all fairness markiemark, I failed to mention that I suffer from more than just chronic CH and sometimes just have to get a break from the pain. An addiction here??? Not unless that addiction can withstand a fix only every few months or so except for a 2 month period in February and March of this year.
Like I said, everyone suffers differently!
Hang in there
renee
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23 years of battling the beast, 9 years chronic......uneducated docs/nurses make me irate.
The fungus among us is for real!
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Cerberus
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #11 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 1:06am » |
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well Captain,
I can't say that I have not used pain meds for the intense pain of CH. I do have to state that I tend to avoid all injectibles (immitrex) until all other options are exausted, and still those are limited to the minimal effective dosage.
Like many others here I rely mostly on O2 and Verapamil to keep my cycles at bay, this technique has proven effective so far and when/ if the need arises I will search for a suitable alternative med/s. Til then....its a hard knock life.
Oh yeah....stay away from the narcotics, they have done nothing but make the pain either worse or simply complacent enough to not be able to function, the intense pain remained...at least in my case.
Happy hunting...
Ramon
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Charlie
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #12 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 6:39am » |
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Never took narcotics for CH. Had Demerol during recovery after gall-bladder surgery. It was fun and worked well then. For clusters? I think all it would do is make me really stupid on top of the pain.
Painkillers don't work for CH.
Charlie
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Jimmy_B
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #13 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 7:47am » |
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Markiemark,
Most narcotics are not helpful as a premiere med for CH. I have found occasional use helpful for the ones that I know are coming, i.e...I'm episodic & when in cycle I always get one an hour or two after I fall asleep. If I take one right before bed...it definitely helps.
Some people have found relief with Stadol NS or Stadol Inj., however...I'm under the belief that due to its agonist & antagonist properties...generally makes you feel like CRAP.
The decision to begin to use Narcotics for any type of pain is a hard one. You & your doctor must discuss all possible side effects & a proper weaning schedule when the meds are no longer needed. Most people who take narcotics for a prolonged period...(There isn't a set period. It depends on the person), may become physically dependent on the medication. The important thing to note is "this is NOT addiction" but your body becoming used to the medication. Side effects of physical dependence can include sleeplessness, irritation, diarrhea, rhinorrhea (runny nose) & stomach distress. These are more prevalent with a pure agonist narcotic like morphine & less prevalent with a mixed agonist-antagonist narcotic like Stadol.
This is why your Doctor must "wean" you off of the medication, once it is no longer needed. Generally a wenaing schedule not unlike a prednisone taper is needed.
A very small minority of people may become addicted. Addiction has nothing to do with physical dependence & someone can be addicted without any physical symptoms whatsoever. Addicts have an overwhelming desire to use narcotics constantly. With or without pain. They will usually horde narcotics, fake pain symptoms & forge prescriptions, and generally cheat & steal for their drug of choice.
Narcotics are usually a last resort med for Clusters & other treatments must & should be used 1st. O2 & triptans, along with a good preventative should be tried.
Good luck
Jimmy
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thomas
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #14 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 9:06am » |
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on Apr 13th, 2004, 6:30pm, markiemark wrote:| ! If y'all go through an attack without ever needing to utilize these items maybe u should change you username to the "terminators" I. |
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Just like I tell the my girlfriends kids, "I'm the toughest thing that walks on two legs, so don't try me."
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Bob P
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #15 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 9:43am » |
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A quote from Dr.s Goadsby and Matharu:
"Analgesics
Opiates, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs and combination analgesics have no role in the acute management of CH."
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Pegase
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #16 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 10:00am » |
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on Apr 14th, 2004, 9:06am, thomas wrote:
Just like I tell the my girlfriends kids, "I'm the toughest thing that walks on two legs, so don't try me." |
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lol n1 Thomas
I take nothing too... Only Verap...water...kleenex and time
Pegase
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Samantha_Smith
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #17 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 11:03am » |
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Wow! I guess I'm in that 1%. For medication I take a 100mcg Fentanyl Patch and change it every 48 hours. When I'm in the middle of a cycle I take MSIR (Morphine Sulfate Instant Relief) 15 mg about every 6 hours, prednisone, and Frova. As a "preventative" I get Botox injections every 4 months.
I think that it is dangerous, unethical, and untrue for people to say that narcotics NEVER work for CH. I tried O2 and it didn't work. I tried Imitrex and it didn't work. I also tried Topamax, lithium, verap, Migranal, Lidocaine Nose Drops,etc and none of them worked. OxyContin did not work and Stadol did not work either, but Fentanyl has. Not all narcotics are made equal.
I'm tired of the way people demonize narcotics on this message board. It makes me feel like I have failed....like I haven't subjected myself to enough crappy uneffective medication. It makes me feel like I just don't try hard enough. It makes me feel marginalized and demeaned. I'm tired of it.
Narcotics DO work for SOME people SOME of the time. I believe that narcotics should be used as a last resort. I feel like I am at my last stop.
If you are at your last stop also and your doctor has offered you narcotics to control your pain then BE INFORMED. Ask your doc about tolerance, physical dependence, possible side effects, interaction with other meds, are there other meds out there that you haven't tried, what happens when you withdraw,etc.
There is a difference between addiction and physical dependence. Addiction is needing more and more, lying to get more, thinking about getting more, spending all of your time getting more, spending all of your money to get more, etc.
Anyone on narcotics for any length of time (either legally or illegally) will develep a physical dependence--its a fact of life when you take narcotics. Its a possible side effect. When you develop a physical dependence you will have withdrawal symptoms when you stop the narcotic or try to lower the dose. If you are a chronic pain patient who's developed a physical dependence on prescribed narcotics does NOT necessarily mean you are a junkie who's going to rob the local 7-11 to get that next patch of Fentanyl.
If you are at risk for drug addiction then discuss that with your doc and have a "contract" in place (for example-you'll only get 30 days of meds at a time, no refills, you check in once per month, etc.)
Please.....be informed. Have mercy on those who are at their last resort. Have mercy on those who've tried all of the conventional treatments for CH and have had no success. Not all cluster heads are the same. Everyone has to fight their own battles and win their own wars. I don't diss people who try shrooms---I don't know what they have to live thru, I don't know how bad their pain is.
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thomas
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #18 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 11:05am » |
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on Apr 13th, 2004, 5:52pm, thomas wrote:| I have never taken any pain medication for my ch, so I can't say whether they would work for me or not |
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I hope that doesn't sound demonizing to you, Samantha.
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Linda_Howell
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #19 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 11:59am » |
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Quote:| I'm tired of the way people demonize narcotics on this message board. |
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Samantha,
Warning people of the terrible rebounds that narcotics can and do cause, and saying that, taken in the quantity that we would have to take them IF they worked would and could cause addiction....is not demonizing at all. It's a fact, and sharing information here is what we do to help one another.
Narcotics have their place. After surgery like Charlie said. Acute, not chronic back pain...etc. I myself have taken Demerol and Codiene for pain. Pain that was of a few days duration, and I was grateful as hell for them.
LindaH
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Karla
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #20 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 1:21pm » |
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I will second Samantha's post. I to have found narcotics to be helpfull. I have taken my share of them. I am also a recovering drug addict and know the difference between addiction and medical use. Never once have I ever considered abusing my pain meds. They are to precious to me to risk jeaperdising getting kicked off the program by my dr. See I have a contract I signed with my dr that says I will only get one months med at a time. If I loose my medication or it gets stolen whatever I will get no replacements for any reason. I am out of luck that month. If you are looking at taking it every day till hell freezes over( because I am chronic) who cares if you build up a tollerance to it or have physical withdrawals. I have found that demerol and morphine will not touch my ch pain. However, I have found that dilaudid works miricles and will abort the ha and give me a couple of days pain free after that. I do not get high from it or even knocked out but it does the trick. I have taken methadone for a year which kept me pain free and then I went on the 50mcg duragesic patch. Which kept me pain free another year. I have tried all the medicines for ch on the market and nothing works. Narcotics have been my answer. They are not a high. They do not put me in a place like lala land. And as far as quitting. I quit taking the patch cold turkey 4 weeks ago today and only suffered flue like symptoms for 1/2 a day and that was it. I had no problems quitting taking the medicine. And I have been on opiates for 5 years. If and when my ch returns I will go back on the patch. It has definetly had it place in treating this chronic clusterhead.
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Karla
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Jimmy_B
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Re: old school pain medication
« Reply #21 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 1:37pm » |
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Samantha,
You should never feel "put upon" for taking something that helps you & your pain. Just because one person does not get help and/or want to try narcotics for clusters or another moderate to severe pain (chronic and/or acute)...should not be any issue in your medications. A lot of people are wary of narcotics for a lot of different reasons. Only you feel your pain & only you & your Doctor know what will help and work.
Health Professionals now have a better understanding of dependence vs. addiction and opioid therapy is now being used with less reluctance for chronic pain. Most of the old theories have been disproven and it's only getting better for the person in chronic intractable pain.
Good luck & continue to use what helps...
Jimmy
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markiemark
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dear sam,
i hope i can call u sam?
thank u so much for your response to my post. i got a lot of flack from some folks. but i knew in my heart that there were others that suffer as u and i do! i wonder if these other people (the ones that dont take any form of pain relief )really have ch's. maybe they have like a tension h.ache, because if your like me and have this Illness...i do anything to stop the pain! thanks again sam, i hope it was ok to write u a few lines.
your in my prayers!when your over with your "battle" have a cold one on me ok (pepsi!!)
bye 4 now!
-markus-
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thomas
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Re: hello from california
« Reply #24 on: Apr 14th, 2004, 2:35pm » |
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on Apr 14th, 2004, 2:17pm, markiemark wrote:| ! i wonder if these other people (the ones that dont take any form of pain relief )really have ch's. maybe they have like a tension h.ache, because if your like me and have this Illness... |
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Dude, you must be stoned on something to make a remark like that. Tension headache indeed, well thanks for diagnosing me, I will herebye leave and begin taking tylenol and stop wasting my money on zomig.
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