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Topic: surfin' the web and found this (Read 509 times) |
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kamccran
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surfin' the web and found this
« on: Apr 9th, 2004, 11:35pm » |
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http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/ucdhs/health/a-z/99HEADACHESCLUSTER/doc99se verity.html (hopefully that link will work).
You may have seen this site before, but I just found it, it was pretty interesting even though most of the info onit I had seen at plenty of other sites before, however, I did find it interesting where it said:
People with episodic cluster headaches tend to have low sexual appetites, impaired verbal memory, and a higher than average association between anxiety disorders and episodic cluster headaches. According to one 1999 study, for example, nearly a quarter of the patients met the criteria for having anxiety disorders. Furthermore the anxiety disorders occurred more frequently within the year before the onset of the cluster headaches.
Mind you, 'a quarter of the patients'.. not necessarily many.. but still. I got put on anti - anxiety pills last year (Propranolol) which may just be a complete coincidence, but oh well.
Didn't know if anyone would find the site umm.. interesting or not?
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Lizzie2
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Re: surfin' the web and found this
« Reply #1 on: Apr 9th, 2004, 11:41pm » |
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Hiya Kam,
You probably already know this, but propanolol is the generic name for Inderal LA, and it is actually a beta-blocker medication to treat hypertension. However, it does help anxiety because it slows down the heart rate, which is helpful for people who's hearts go fast when they are anxious. My primary care doctor told me that a lot of musicians used to take it before performances!!
Lizzie
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kamccran
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Re: surfin' the web and found this
« Reply #2 on: Apr 9th, 2004, 11:46pm » |
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Huh, I did not know about the musicians taking it before performances!
I take it whenever I get anxious, and it seems to help, so it's all good. (touch wood.)
Kirsty
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Lizzie2
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Re: surfin' the web and found this
« Reply #3 on: Apr 9th, 2004, 11:48pm » |
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Hi Kirsty,
Just a question or warning...you don't take it on top of verapamil do you? They are contraindicated...
Lizzie
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FZfan
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Re: surfin' the web and found this
« Reply #4 on: Apr 10th, 2004, 12:05am » |
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No way! Musicians taking drugs? 
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There is no such thing as a dirty word. Nor is there a word so powerful, that it's going to send the listener to the lake of fire upon hearing it. - FZ
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floridian
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Re: surfin' the web and found this
« Reply #5 on: Apr 10th, 2004, 12:26am » |
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Depression started in my teen years, anxiety in 20s, clusters started in my 30s. Verbal memory is still excellent, Maleopause in 40s??  Hope not.
25% sounds about right for anxiety disorder - there are lots of people here who just don't get it and assume that the anxiety is from the fear of getting hit by the beast ... panic disorder is not 'all in your head" any more than clusters. Anxiety and panic disorders are from messed up body chemistry - the worry and fear circuits of the brain get stuck in the on position, just like a pain circuit gets switched on in clusters. The advice that someone should "just relax" or "not worry about getting a cluster" is on par with the compassionate (but utterly clueless) people who ask us if we've tried Excedrin-Migraine or Extra-strength-Tylenol for a cluster headache. God bless em, and God keep us from biting their head off.
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Lizzie2
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Re: surfin' the web and found this
« Reply #6 on: Apr 10th, 2004, 12:32am » |
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on Apr 10th, 2004, 12:05am, FZfan wrote:| No way! Musicians taking drugs? |
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LOL FZ!! I'm talking about classical musicians!! I am one...piano performance major...but I don't take drugs for performance!! On enough crap as it is! hehe
Lizzie
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Kevin_M
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Re: surfin' the web and found this
« Reply #7 on: Apr 10th, 2004, 12:56am » |
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on Apr 9th, 2004, 11:35pm, kamccran wrote:http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/ucdhs/health/a-z/99HEADACHESCLUSTER/doc99se verity.html (hopefully that link will work).
People with episodic cluster headaches tend to have low sexual appetites, impaired verbal memory, and a higher than average association between anxiety disorders and episodic cluster headaches. According to one 1999 study, for example, nearly a quarter of the patients met the criteria for having anxiety disorders. Furthermore the anxiety disorders occurred more frequently within the year before the onset of the cluster headaches. |
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Being episodic I find it hard to relate to low sexual appetites, except when one neuro thought anti-depressants were good prevents years ago. Impaired verbal memory isn't apparent and I don't recognize that in many other posters on the board. The association between axiety disorder and episodic is not apparent. Anxiety and depression may come from genetic reasons, while others are ill because of perhaps something in their lives their constitution cannot deal with. Clusters can maybe bring that out, but one doesn't predict the other. I'm 0 for 3 in agreeing.
IMHO.
Kevin M
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floridian
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Re: surfin' the web and found this
« Reply #8 on: Apr 10th, 2004, 1:28am » |
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The link is not universal, but its documented in the medical literature. It hits a minority of clusterheads, but that number is much higher than the general population. Anxiety/panic disorder in the previous year is a predictor of the beast in episodics. Disturbed serotonin is involved in both clusters and anxiety - not 100% overlap, but having messed up serotonin is like getting a pile of a raffle ticket for a lot of conditions.
That claim that episodics have selectively impaired verbal memory?? I think it just means we don't listen. And the anxiety angle isn't talked about much here as many of us with anxiety are hiding in the basement. When we do get the composure to log on to clusterheadaches.com, we don't want to jinx things by bringing up something that is seen as a non-cluster problem.
Quote: Headache. 1992 Mar;32(3):119-25.
Episodic cluster headache. I: Personality and some neuropsychological characteristics in male patients.
Levi R, Edman GV, Ekbom K, Waldenlind E.
Department of Neurology, Soder Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden.
The etiology and pathogenesis of cluster headache remain largely unknown. Some previous studies have focused on personality characteristics in cluster headache. However, no consistent personality profile has been found. The present study applied two personality inventories, the Karolinska Scales of Personality (KSP) and the Heart and Lifestyle Type A Measure (HALTAM), that have not previously been used in the context of cluster headache. A correlation has been suggested between left-handedness and early learning difficulties, and cluster headache. Thus, these variables were included and measured by inventory techniques. Forty-nine out of 51 consecutive male patients with episodic cluster headache participated in the present study. As compared to controls, the cluster headache patients were significantly more anxiety-prone (higher scores in the KSP Somatic anxiety and Muscular tension subscales), less successfully socialized (low scores in the KSP Socialization scale), and had a more hostile attitude towards others (higher scores in the HALTAM Hostility scale). No relationships between left-handedness or early learning difficulties, and cluster headache disease were found. The implications of the personality differences for the etiology of cluster headache disease are discussed. |
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Quote:Neurology. 1999 Aug 11;53(3):543-7.
Cluster headaches: association with anxiety disorders and memory deficits.
Jorge RE, Leston JE, Arndt S, Robinson RG. Department of Psychiatry, University of Iowa Hospitals & Clinics, Iowa City 52242-1057, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To estimate the frequency of mood and anxiety disorders and to assess memory and executive functions among a representative group of patients with episodic cluster headache (ECH) during the course of an acute episode. METHODS: We compared 21 patients with ECH with 21 patients with tension headache (TH) matched for age, sex, and educational level. Psychiatric diagnosis was made by a semi-structured interview and Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th ed. (DSM-IV) criteria. Quantitative measures of depression and anxiety were obtained using the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale and the Hamilton Anxiety Rating Scale (HARS). In addition, all patients received a neuropsychological evaluation to assess basic memory and executive functions. RESULTS: Of the 21 patients with ECH, 5 (24%) met DSM-IV criteria for an anxiety disorder during the year before the episode. Panic disorder was diagnosed in two patients (10%). The remaining three patients (14%) met criteria for generalized anxiety disorder. Of the 21 patients with TH, 2 (10%) met diagnostic criteria for an adjustment disorder with depressed mood, and 1 (5%) met criteria for an adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood. HARS scores were higher among patients with ECH (Kruskal-Wallis, chi2 = 4.3, df = 1, p = 0.03). ECH patients also showed significantly lower Auditory Verbal Learning Test scores (Kruskal-Wallis, chi2 = 6.5, df = 1, p = 0.01). CONCLUSIONS: When compared with a group of patients with TH, ECH patients showed a higher frequency of anxiety disorders during the year before the onset of headaches and significantly greater HARS scores during the episode. In addition, patients with ECH were selectively impaired in verbal memory. |
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Dover
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Re: surfin' the web and found this
« Reply #9 on: Apr 10th, 2004, 11:33am » |
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Since March, I have noticed a significant decrease in my verbal memory. I struggle to find the right words. And in the middle of conversations, sometimes my memory of what came early just falls away. That aspect has me pretty scared. I depend on my verbal skills for a living.
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Kevin_M
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Re: surfin' the web and found this
« Reply #10 on: Apr 10th, 2004, 11:59am » |
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on Apr 10th, 2004, 1:28am, floridian wrote:| The link is not universal, but its documented in the medical literature. It hits a minority of clusterheads. |
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I can understand what you are saying Floridian. Comparing the onset of clusters to the onset of a tension headache would leave no doubt in my mind that more anxiety is involved. That comparison would indeed hold water, the question is was it a fair comparison considering the difference of impending pain.
I simply have noticed that in any support group (ie. AA, NA, anorexic, etc.)there is quite the same or just as much anxiety related problem there too, which would not make clusters stick out by any stretch of the imagination as having moreso than any other support
group.
The relationship of having axiety related disorder prior to having clusters is no more a telltale sign that clusters will develop than any other affliction that might also.
The fact that it may develop after clusters are confirmed, well of course the right switches may get turned on for it to happen when something happens to them that their constitution may not have been ready to deal with. That can happen in many other afflictions also, as those mentioned above.
The fact that we may have impaired verbal memory? Try teaching any mid or high school class and you would think it is highly related to going to school too. Much higher than those with clusters.
If those studies had been done with any other affliction, as mentioned above, the results would have been similar.
*edit* All books written in the last two years, except for Rollo May's books. The sources and notes at the end of some books can be up to 40 pages long, drawing conclusions from hundreds of cross referenced studies and research results.
Recent books which put it into a wider perspective.
Nature via Nurture, genes, experience and what makes us human. Matt Ridley. 155.7 R
The Essential Difference. The truth about the male and female brain. Simon Baron-Cohen. 612.82 B
Y, The Descent of Man. Revealing the mysteries of maleness. Steve Jones. 599.938 J
The Heart of Addiction. Lance Dodes, MD. 616.806 D
The Dependent Gene. David S. Moore. 576.53 M
The Tending Instinct. Shelley E Taylor. 304.5 T
Love at Goon Park. Harry Harlow and the Science of Affection. Deborah Blum. 150.724 B
These books deal with many aspects of axiety and genes and environment. I have more which also deal with very far reaching research, samples of which are taken and applied on a much larger scale.
There is no doubt that low sex, impaired verbal memory and anxiety can exist with clusters, but how does that differ much from a small sample of people with other afflictions.
Read long ago, and still a favorite, which should be anyone's starter book, "The Meaning of Anxiety", Rollo May. Also his book, "The Courage to Create" has much relation to the subject as it relates to creativity. Artists also have the all these things that have here been mentioned associated with clusters too. These "conditions" which perhaps predate the onset of clusters and may appear as clusters develop are not only distinct with clusters, and are found commonly in many other afflictions too.
Kevin M
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| « Last Edit: Apr 10th, 2004, 5:00pm by Kevin_M » |
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Hai
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Re: surfin' the web and found this
« Reply #11 on: Apr 13th, 2004, 7:05pm » |
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Very good post!
I suffer from Anxiety disorder (Panic Attacks), and was always curious if they tied in with Cluster Headaches since both are related to Seretonin levels in the brain. Hmm I wonder if I should go back on that Paxil .....
Hai
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