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Topic: Non CH poll.... (Read 1724 times) |
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jonny
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This is just for those that have seen the video (which is probably 95% of you) of the Cincy police taking down the 350-400 pound druggie (if you havent seen the video then I dont know how you could have an opinion on this)
From what you have seen, heard and read on this so far do you think the police were justified taking this dude down the way they did?
Ill hold my opinion till later...yes, I have a strong one.
What say you?
.................................jonny
(Would like to hear from you Jimi)
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| « Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2003, 4:56pm by jonny » |
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thomas
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Do you have a link to it?
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JDH
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Re: Non CH poll....
« Reply #2 on: Dec 4th, 2003, 5:17pm » |
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Sad story but the dude should've been cooperating with the officers in the first place and it probably never would've gone that far.
If he was high on pcp, crack, coke or whatever then those cops had every right to use whatever force was neccessary to subdue him.
A stoned 350/400 pound man who doesn't want to be arrested has got to be a cops worst nightmare.
just my 
Jim
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JDH
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Re: Non CH poll....
« Reply #3 on: Dec 4th, 2003, 5:19pm » |
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on Dec 4th, 2003, 5:05pm, thomas wrote:| Do you have a link to it? |
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just turn on the news
Jim
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9-11-01, to remember is to honor.
It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.
ECH established 1985
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thomas
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I'm at work all day and unpacking at night no time for news right now. I'm such a degenerate. I did have time for bowling and cards last night though.
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don
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I dont believe a police authority have the right to brutalize an African American who is obviously suffering from the disease of addiction. He is probably unemployed with a family of 15 and is only selling crack because of our government's oppressive economic policies.
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jonny
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http://www.wcpo.com/
Third video down (in blue) "in cruser altercation"
..........................jonny
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Virginia
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Re: Non CH poll....
« Reply #7 on: Dec 4th, 2003, 5:42pm » |
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Don- you crack me up!
From the looks of the video, they were justified. The guy was out of control. But that's what PCP will do to you I guess.
The guy had TOO many strikes against him...his weight, the drugs, his enlarged heart, and then the beating...there's no way he was going to make it.
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The Clusterhead formerly known as 9erfan.
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fubar
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Re: Non CH poll....
« Reply #8 on: Dec 4th, 2003, 5:56pm » |
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People looking at videos like these have no idea what really happened. All they see is cops wildly beating some poor victim.
Innocent or guilty, a person who doesn't want to be forced to comply should just comply with the demands of law enforcement. When they don't comply, the officers are compelled to use force until the person does comply.
Any reasonable person knows that if a cop says "Freeze!", you better freeze or you might get shot. Being innocent or guilty has nothing at all to do with the intelligent decision to freeze when commanded to do so.
This guy was obviously oblivious to the commands being shouted at him, and the cops had no option but to force him to comply, and they had to use overwhelming force in order to control the situation. It is the right and proper thing to do.
This guy is dead because he was overweight, drugged out, and in no condition to wage war with a whole group of officers (his choice).
The coroner says the struggle with the cops ultimately caused the death, but this guy is the one who created the situation in the first place.
It's kind of like blaming the concrete for killing you when you jump out of a building. The concrete is there doing it's job, and unfortunately you chose a path that forced the concrete to be your instrument of death.
-fubar
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echo
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Re: Non CH poll....
« Reply #9 on: Dec 4th, 2003, 6:01pm » |
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Those criminals in blue were waaaayyyyyy out of line. There come a time when, regardless of other circumstances, the brain will activate the flight or flight mode to try and survive. He, at the end, was fighting to stay alive.
1st off. A 400 lb person usually cannot get their hands behind their back to get hand cuffs applied. Two or three sets would have been needed to get his hands behind his back. Done correctly this would not have gotten out of hand. These officers made a managable situation much worse. They lost control of themselves and should never be allowed the honor and priviledge of wearing another badge.
my .02 and then some.
Ex-Officer Echo.
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pubgirl
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How can we have a valid opinion when we don't know the facts.
e.g I would want to know what they already knew about the guy before this incident as when I was a cop sometimes we went in mob handed to a simple situation because a bloke had previous for trying to kill police officers.
Videos don't tell the whole story
W
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thomas
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on Dec 4th, 2003, 5:56pm, fubar wrote:It's kind of like blaming the concrete for killing you when you jump out of a building. The concrete is there doing it's job, and unfortunately you chose a path that forced the concrete to be your instrument of death.
-fubar |
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Wow. You nailed it. I did notice a couple of Black police officers there also. So I don't think people can try to play the race card with this. Hrrrmmph...don. I am sorry the guy had to die. It was his own doing, however I wish that I could see what the perp/victim was doing when they finally stopped flogging him.
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brain_cramps
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Re: Non CH poll....
« Reply #12 on: Dec 4th, 2003, 6:06pm » |
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Don - waaaaaaaaay too funny!
Fu - once again, the voice of reason.
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BlueMeanie
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If you watch the beginning of the video, I think the cops where right for what they started by trying to subdue that huge wacko guy.
The problem I saw was after the first few beatings, the guy was on the ground, it didn't look like the cops needed to continue their efforts in stopping him.
Looked like a bunch more beatings that where not necessary at the end.
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pubgirl
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Mr Cramping of the Brain
When is your week up? Have £20 burning a hole in my pocket!
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jonny
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on Dec 4th, 2003, 6:14pm, pubgirl wrote:Mr Cramping of the Brain
When is your week up? Have £20 burning a hole in my pocket! |
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I got 40 in mine 
................................jonny
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Donna_D.
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Re: Non CH poll....
« Reply #16 on: Dec 4th, 2003, 6:56pm » |
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Had I based my opinion solely on watching the video my opinion would be similar to those already posted. Up until today I had only seen snippets of this on the evening news. After reading the accompanying articles I am rather inclined to believe that the real issue is what happened AFTER the struggle.
The coroner's report lists cause of death as homicide. But, to paraphrase, states as a fact that had the man not already had an enlarged heart and have xxx quantities of drugs (cocaine, pcp) in his system, he probably would have survived the struggle.
This man probably has had his own "death wish" much longer than he knew those officers. You have to live in a hole to not know that someone that large is going to have serious cardiac problems. Add drugs to that and it is slow suicide. He was obviously resisting arrest. I cannot help but keep hearing the single officer who throughout and toward the end of the struggle sounded as if he were pleading, almost begging, the man with "Put your hands behind your back". Listen close to that one.
Where I see the real problem is the negligence of the police officers and medics who failed to revive this man after he stopped breathing. Someone else thinks this as well, because the Fire Chief (accused of ordering the medics away from the scene) is currently on administrative leave. I don't think enough effort was made initially to save this man's life.
Just one opinion.
Donna D
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jonny
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on Dec 4th, 2003, 6:56pm, Donna_D. wrote:
Thats all im asking for Donna.
............................................jonny
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stevegeebe
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Re: Non CH poll....
« Reply #18 on: Dec 4th, 2003, 7:10pm » |
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Don't know where I side on this one Jonny. Points on both sides well stated.
I think they "took him down" okay but I think one of the officers jabbed the poor slob too many times (17 or more) to state that he was in control.
But I'm not out on the front line everyday. I don't know.
The last time I "misunderstood" the directions of a cop, he simply grabbed my balls and brought clarity to my confusion.
Steve G
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kim
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Re: Non CH poll....
« Reply #19 on: Dec 4th, 2003, 7:58pm » |
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My initial thoughts about this story were that the man caused his own death - NOT the police. It was his choice. When you break the law YOU are responsible for your own actions.
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Prense
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Re: Non CH poll....
« Reply #20 on: Dec 4th, 2003, 8:08pm » |
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There are many ways to take a big guy like that down. From putting a bullet through his head to taking his legs out from under him. Personally, I do not see a baton to the head, or across the back (over and over again) as an effective way to bring the dude down. These guys are trained to handle situations exactly like this. I saw no life threatening gestures towards the cops in the video(s)...assault, yes...life threatening, no. To me, a baton repeatedly delivered to the head is life threatening. It appeared to me that when Jones resisted and then didn't go down very easily, the cops paniced. The way they were swinging...looked more like flailing wildly to me. Of course, when they all ducked under the view of the dash cam, who knows what happened.
Based on what I saw, the cops were wrong...even before CPR became an issue.
Chris
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forgetfulnot
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High, drunk or 400 lbs doesn't make a difference, if a cop tells you to do somthing you better do it. You might end up dead if you don't. 
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
Lee
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| « Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2003, 8:39pm by forgetful » |
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jonny
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on Dec 4th, 2003, 8:08pm, Prense wrote:| To me, a baton repeatedly delivered to the head is life threatening. It appeared to me that when Jones resisted and then didn't go down very easily, the cops paniced. The way they were swinging...looked more like flailing wildly to me. Of course, when they all ducked under the view of the dash cam, who knows what happened. |
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The reports say there were no head blows....even I didnt even see that and I watched the video hundreds of times.
They were swinging cause this punk was trying to get up....you dont see that?
"When they all ducked down"?.....since when do you get to decide to duck down when you are in battle with a drugged out 400 pound rhino thats trying to kill you??
me?.....I would have put a bullet in his fucking forhead after the third time I told him to step back.....but hey, thats just my wanting to live rather than letting some scumbag drug addict rob my family of the years I have left.
Incase anyone missed this fact.......HE WAS A DRUG ADDICT OUT OF CONTROL......those cops have families, mothers, children.......Fat dude gets the gun its all gone.....duh!!
..................................jonny
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CathiP
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This will only be understood by West Coasters, I'm certain....but, here goes, anyway:
DOES ANYONE REMEMBER RODNEY KING, formerly of Sylmar, CA....a few moments of fame after he coined a popular phrase..."can't we ALL jes get alawwwnng?".....oh, well, that was after he evaded arrest, then caused a riot...oh, oh....and, let us not forget, he has been "in the news" 3-4, maybe more times since for various and sundry items, as well as resorting to petty theft, after going through the very handsome settlement he received.....actually had his home in Valencia, CA reposessed.
It's not racial, it's not even size, it is attitude..or drugs, or, or......well, would YOU evade police or resist arrest?
Just my opinion...
Cathi
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5-string
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Re: Non CH poll....
« Reply #24 on: Dec 4th, 2003, 9:12pm » |
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He came at them without a gun, they took him down without a gun. I agree with Jonny,if a 400lb crazy dude was coming at me like that and I had a loaded gun at my side, he'd be dead from bullet wounds. I think judging by the size of the officers and the size and state of mind of the "bad guy" my hat goes of to the cops.
My only question is : Where the fuck were the medics?
Once a person is taken down with billy clubs and surounded by cops, and NOT MOVING ANYMORE!! it's a pretty good fucking time to see how he's doing. Does anyone disagree with that?
...Mark
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