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Topic: Magnesium? (Read 682 times) |
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12gagueblast
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Anyone ever try Magnesium tablets??????? 
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12gagueblast
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #1 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 2:53am » |
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Not new to the site just new to post. I'm 34 have had clusters since early 20's. had a few as early as 15 or so but not in a cluster patern and didnt know what they were. married 2 little boys 1.8 and 3.5 years old. i have one of the stupidist diseases in the world or so i think. i have enjoyed reading the posts here and it has made me feel so not alone. i have met 2 other people that have CH face to face. helps knowing your not a big baby. im about 4 weeks into my usual 8 week cycle now. but i think i may have aborted it. AMERGE worked ok for me with O2 but insurance will only pay for 18 a month and i need 60 a month when i am having a cycle. did some research and looked like some of our treatments are the same as a fix for a magnesium defficency. anyone try this before?????? i found this worked for me and had to share it with you. it would be wrong of me if i didn't. since im one of you. 
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ClusterChuck
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #2 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 2:56am » |
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Sorry you have to be here, but glad you found us!
Welcome aboard!
I have never tried that, but I am sure you will get an answer from someone here who has tried it.
Welcome
Chuck
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12gagueblast
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #3 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 3:34am » |
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thanks chuck. this has worked for me better than any thing else. this may sound dumb but i think there is a good chance we are Mg deficient, or at least i was. 4 weeks into an 8 week cycle, started taking Mg, no more pain, no more meds or o2 either. I took the amerge as a preventitive and felt good enouth after 2 days of the Mg that i quit taking that and have been good for the other two days. WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO!!! in the words of james brown " i feel good!!!!"
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HannahFroukje
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #4 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 5:07am » |
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Hi
About magnesium.
For some clusterheads, maybe for all, magnesium could play an important role. My husband has CH and I´ve been thinking about magnesium too, but didn´t dare to give him magnesium tablets, because there´s a fair chance you disturb the delicate balance FURTHER instead of making it better. Why? because the same complaints CAN be produced by a magnesium surplus instead of a shortage, in that case you would make it worse.
Since you tried it and it worked for you, I would sa: YES, there is a strong possibility that your complaints are caused by a Mg shortage.
For all of those who are going to try it, watch out with it! Don´t think about this too lightly , don´t take high doses if you can live on low dosages, the mineral balance in your body can be disturbed easily. There is also a fair chance the problem is not a mg shortage but a phosphor surplus, because these minerals work in a balance. It can also be a Calcium surplus, or a vitamine E deficiency.
PLEASE, PLEASE, I beg all of you CH-heads, to let me know if this has worked for you!!! It would help me a LOT in my studies about what natural remedies can help for CH and it can lead me to homeopathic remedies that might work. So please let me know! I can help other people with it, I´ve come quite far to sort out which minerals can play a role.
You can email me on knowitnotall@hotmail.com
Also if you want to know more about this, you can email me too (or put it down here ofcourse).
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brain_cramps
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #5 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 5:57am » |
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Hey Blast... Welcome aboard!
About 15 yrs ago, I went to see a Chinese herbalist/homeopathic specialist. (At the time, I was at wits end, trying this route, acupuncturist, etc...) I was given tiny magnesium and potassium tablets and told to take ONLY x per day. The interpreter told me that this meant that no matter how small they are, never take more than the amount "prescribed".
I didn't find any relief at all, but never wrote the idea off completely.
One thing that was very interesting was that even though this specialist had never met me or given me any type of examination he told me through an interpreter 2 things that rang a bell:
1) "Its not the period of stress, but the 'let-down' period afterwards that triggers these headaches." --- This is something that I've heard from a number of sources since that time. (I'm not sure if it holds true for me. The stress-period seems to have a substantial-enough effect on me that I don't usually notice the 'let-down' period.)
2) Along the same lines, he asked if I had quit drinking lately since "Its not the period of drinking, but the period when you aren't drinking afterwards." I found this interesting because in our brief chat no questions or mention was made of drinking so I'm not even sure how he knew that I drank. He said that drinkers typically drink in cycles, slowing down for a while because of responsiblilities, guilt, etc... only to start up again at a later date. While I couldn't answer his question about quitting drinking with a definite "yes", I could definitely see in my own consumption habits that it did go in cycles (mainly due to added responsibilites for short periods at work).
I'm not sure if any of this is relevant to this discussion or th CH in general. I'm hoping the 'drinking cycles' have no relationship to the 'CH cycles' since I quit drinking 100 days ago. (that's right folks --- 100 days)
for what its worth,
grant 
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| « Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2003, 5:58am by brain_cramps » |
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Opus
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #6 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 7:44am » |
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I have tried it with no success. Melatonin is looking promising though. See meds page.
Opus/Paul
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Bob_Johnson
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 8:19am » |
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WWW.HEADACHEPAINFREE.COM The content of this site has been expanded since I first posted it. It now covers several types of headache and a more general coverage of medications. It remains, to my knowledge, the best single source of information on the use of magnesium for headache--both for prevention and as a treatment during an active cycle.
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Bob Johnson
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floridian
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Magnesium deficiency is probably a contributing factor in some people with cluster headaches. The first article below shows a possible improvement in 40% of clusterheads taking Mg. The mineral is important for circadian biorythms, and it supports melatonin production. It is a cofactor for hundreds of enzymes in tissues across the body, and the typical western diet is deficient in magnesium. It's not a universal magic bullet, but many people believe it helps them.
Magnesium is innexpensive and safe at moderate doses (major side effect is laxative at too high a dose. The chelated forms (Mg-citrate, Mg-orotate, Mg-aspartate, etc) have less of a laxative effect than the oxide. People with certain kidney diseases might need to limit their magnesium intake).
Quote:Headache. 1995 Nov-Dec;35(10):597-600.
Intravenous magnesium sulfate relieves cluster headaches in patients with low serum ionized magnesium levels.
Mauskop A, Altura BT, Cracco RQ, Altura BM. Department of Neurology, State University of New York, Health Science Center at Brooklyn, USA.
Patients with cluster headaches have been reported to have low serum ionized magnesium levels. We examined the possibility that patients with cluster headaches and low ionized magnesium levels may respond to an intravenous infusion of magnesium sulfate. Thirty-eight infusions of magnesium sulfate were given to 22 patients with cluster headaches. The mean ionized magnesium level prior to 23 infusions which provided relief for at least 2 days and enabled the patient to skip two or more attacks, was 0.521 +/- 0.016 mmol/L; this value was 0.561 +/- 0.016 prior to 15 infusions which were ineffective. These latter 15 infusions were preceded by higher total magnesium levels. The ionized magnesium level prior to the 23 effective infusions was below 0.54 mmol/L in 19 patients. Five of the 15 ineffective infusions were accompanied by basal ionized magnesium levels below 0.54 mmol/L. In 76% of the infusions, there was a correlation between a response and an ionized magnesium level below 0.54 mmol/L. Nine patients (41%) obtained clinically meaningful improvement. Spontaneous remissions and a placebo effect might have accounted for some of the improvement. However, this should have applied equally to all patients, regardless of the ionized magnesium level. Measurements of ionized magnesium may prove useful in elucidating the pathogenesis of cluster headache and in identifying patients who may benefit from treatment with magnesium. |
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Quote: Magnes Res. 2002 Mar;15(1-2):49-66. Biorhythms and possible central regulation of magnesium status, phototherapy, darkness therapy and chronopathological forms of magnesium depletion.
Durlach J, Pages N, Bac P, Bara M, Guiet-Bara A. SDRM, Univ P et M Curie, Paris VI, France. Jean.Durlach@wanadoo.fr
Biological clock and magnesium status are linked. Central magnesium regulation may be hypothetized. Balanced magnesium status is requested to obtain efficiency of suprachiasmatic nuclei and of pineal gland.
...
Although the increased production of melatonin constitutes the best marker of darkness, it is only an accessory mechanism of its action. The psycholeptic sedative effects of darkness, like those of magnesium, rely on direct membraneous and oxidant actions, neural mediated effects (i.e. stimulation of inhibitory neuromodulators such as GABA and taurine), and on antagonism of neuroactive gases (CO and NO). Darkness therapy per se, partial substitutive therapy with melatonin and with their mimicking agents (Mg, L-Tryptophan,Taurine) apply to all the chronopathological forms of magnesium depletion with decreased production of melatonin: sleep disorders, migraine, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, some forms of asthma and of sudden infant death syndrome. Further research should assess the importance of the chronopathological forms of magnesium depletion in the physiopathology of these disorders.
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thomas
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I have been using 250mg of magnesium with 5mg of melatonin and 20 mg of prosac - this combo has been a godsend to me. I have been pf for over a month now, don't think I can quit the meds just yet, but wow!!!!!!!! Welcome aboard.
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12gagueblast
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #10 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 9:39am » |
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congrats on the 100 days drink free!!! the nuro told me that the toxcisity level of Mg was very high and i have read that on of the first signs of too much Mg is "the trotts" if that happens i'll need to back off a bit i suppose. Another night no meds, O2 or pain. yippie ya hoo!
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Giovanni
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #11 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 10:48am » |
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During my last cycle which lasted 4 1/2 months I had taken magnesium one day (during mid cycle). Within 30 minutes had a CH (not during my "regular" time). Next day I did it again and the same results--had a CH within 30 minutes of taking it. The only thing that I can conclude is that magnesium triggered the headaches.
I've had really good luck with Melatonin @9mg time released and increased verapamil @360.
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HannahFroukje
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #12 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 11:18am » |
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This is what I meant! Mg shortage CAN be related to CH, but also the opposite !!!! And in that case it could probably trigger attacks!
I checked out this website about magnesium (thanks!), lots of info on that. The only thing that is puzzling me, is that these tablets that are mentioned have phosphorus in 'em too. I think phosphorus is not something you should ADD, because usually you have a surplus of that in your "modern" body anyway, caused by drinking bear or soda, or other habits related to the modern world. So I would not take that if I had CH. But perhaps there's a reason for it? The surplus of phosphorus could cause a calcium (and magnesium ) shortage as far as I know, so be aware all you soda-poppers ... you might be the ones that actually have the magnesium shortage!
Anyway, I'm gonna give it a try myself, since hubby is a bear-drinker in normal day life, it could be so he's one with a shortage. He is back on his old schedual again, 1 attack each 3 hours, remember I told I am trying homeopathics and temporarily they help magnificently, but only SHORT, after a few days of NO attacks, he gets them back on his old schedual. So there's where we stand now, and I did not find a new remedy yet, that could help him.
So I just went to the store and bought Magnesium citrate and magnesium chelate, and vitamine B, I'll give it a try. See if that helps for him.
Hope this info helps some of you too .... keep your fingers crossed for us. I hope I'm not triggering any of his attacks by giving him magnesium. I hope and pray ... 
Please let us know if this is working for you or not, I will do the same.
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Ree
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #13 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 11:32am » |
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Ree... (I mean Me the Migrainer) I take Calcium with magnesium also cromium and a few other supplements. I have only had 3 or 4 real bad migraines in a month and a half... remember I dont have CH... ONLY~~~ migraine but those of you that know me, know that, at one time I was having 3 weeks of Migraines to 1 week PF so this is definately an improvement for me... don't know the effect it has on Chers, though Dave does take the same supplement but has only been on it since the end of his Ch cycle this time~~ sorry.......... we will see next cycle though... ree
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Giovanni
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #14 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 12:22pm » |
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Drink probably less than 10 soda pops per year. Not that much beer. Love absolut 2 olives, shaken not stirred.
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eyes_afire
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #15 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 7:40pm » |
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Yup, tried magnesium. No help for CH. Although it may be useful to counteract the well known 'Verapamil Brick-Up'. If ya eat enuff, it can sent you to the hopper faster than eating a jar of hot salsa. Right up there with prune juice for efficiency.
--- Steve
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HannahFroukje
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Re: Magnesium? REPORTING BACK!
« Reply #16 on: Nov 18th, 2003, 2:10am » |
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Hi ya' all,
I'm beginning to like this place, it feels so good to have a place where you can turn to (even Jos - "my" CH-head  )started reading the pages himself, but it's a bit difficult for him, because his English is slow).
OK, here's the report back on the magnesium.
Sorry, it's quite a story
I got it in yesterday and gave him a regular dose of it, together with the vitamine B. Attack followed an hour later, around 18.00, and it was bad, really bad, we're really back on schedual after our short "homeopathic break", ... "under attack", we are trying to figure out what to do, because it's so bad, and he takes two more magnesium-citrate tablets (mine are not so high dosed). He uses imitrex, but it takes too long, it looks like it doesn't work  . THIS IS HORROR. I try to figure out what to do, while Jos jumps from the couch and starts pacing up and down the room, bumps into doors and freaks out, this is even worse then before , he's screaming from the top of his lungs, starts pulling at his hair. I wonder if it coud have anything to do with the Magnesium, that it's blocked or something. So it looks like a good idea to me, to try and give him a "magnesium regulator", could not make things worse, only better, so I run upstairs to get my books on it to sort out which ONE, and here I am, while Jos is almost wrecking the room, reading my book ... ohmygod.
I get the stuff from my room and give it to him, by then he has been busy for more then twenty, or twentyfive minutes ... give it to him, just then I don't know because of the imitrex or the mg-regulator, he starts calming down. I wish I knew by WHICH ONE, DARN!
He's really shaken this time (and that doesn't happen soon ...). I am scared to give the Mg, again, but on the other hand, I wonder if I would give the Mg together with the regulator it might work well. So I give him only the regulator a few times the same evening, to prepare him better for the Mg itsself to follow. Four hours later next attack (one hour late on schedual so that's a promising start).
This one is only scale 7-8, which is exeptionally mild for him. He takes two Mg. Citrate (and I am crossing my fingers and hoping it will work together with the regulator). He is doing good, tries to breath and concentrate on relaxing. I get his imitrex out but he puts it on the table shaking his head (I know he's afraid of overdosing it). He indicates he wants me to rub his back (he can't speak during attack), so that's what I do. It takes 45 minutes, but he's pulling it off, I give him the regulator every 10 minutes or so. Finally it subsides, my arm is hurting because of the rubbing, I have to rub really HARD otherwise it doesn't help him. He's not very happy, because when he doesn't use imitrex on an attack, his head will hurt all through the next day with a pounding headache  . I WONDER I WONDER I WONDER what will happen now, when the Mg + regulator work, something positive should happen now. He falls asleep sitting up, I try to settle him down on the couch with pillows, and make up a floor bed for myself in the living room. During the night I give him one more magnesium tablet and the regulator with it.
IT'S 08.02 NOW AND HE'S STILL SOUND ASLEEP, SO IT'S MORE THEN 9 HOURS LATER AND HE MISSED ABOUT THREE ATTACKS !!!
Now I'm not putting out the flag yet, because I've seen this many times before, that something helped but not for long. But at least it's a break again and a night of sleep and I'm very positive about the magnesium!!! BUT !!! At first it seemed to worsen everything. I think we needed the regulator, but perhaps somebody else wouldn't?
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| « Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2003, 2:15am by HannahFroukje » |
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12gagueblast
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #17 on: Nov 18th, 2003, 11:01am » |
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i took about 6 tabs a day that contained 47mg calcium 133 mg magnesium and 5 mg zinc. i took it right after i had a K6.5 and then took 2 before bed two upon waking and 2 about mid day. this has helped me more than anything i have taken in the past. Still feeling good almost one week later not even having shadows. i know this probably wont work for everyone but if it helps one person i think it is worth my time to post this.
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HannahFroukje
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #18 on: Nov 18th, 2003, 3:18pm » |
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Yeah! Be glad, I'm VERY glad with you!
Here's all going reasonably well. Hubby stayed free of attacks for over 19 hours, then had one attack, then nothing untill now, so that's one "8" in 24 hours, not bad at all (7 less than normal).
Mg or Mg-regulators seem to be working I wonder what will happen with other people who try it?
I only worry how it will be after a longer period of time ...
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floridian
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What's a magnesium regulator? Is it homeopathic?? I am not a fan of homeopathic theory, but I think by trial and error they may have come up with some things that work. In the same vein, I am not a fan of Mayan or Traditional Chinese medical theory, but again, they have come up with things that work.
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HannahFroukje
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #20 on: Nov 18th, 2003, 4:53pm » |
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Yes, it's a homeopathic thing.
NB you don't have to be a fan to make it work. I'm a simple soul ... when it works beyond doubt, okay it works. I'm no fan of chemical medicines ... BUT hey, they work (in that case, also when you're lucky, just the same as with homeopathics)
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ClusterChuck
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #21 on: Nov 18th, 2003, 5:39pm » |
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on Nov 18th, 2003, 3:18pm, HannahFroukje wrote:
Here's all going reasonably well. Hubby stayed free of attacks for over 19 hours, then had one attack, then nothing untill now, so that's one "8" in 24 hours, not bad at all (7 less than normal).
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I am not convinced that you have hit on anything that is really doing anything with cluster headaches. To me, in my experience, having a few hours PF, or even a few days, does not tell me anything. I have had these for about 25 years, and I know during a cycle, I can have one or more "light" or "no" days, without anything that can be picked out as the reason for the change.
I bet most of the people here have had that experience. We have found one "cast in stone" fact about this afliction: It is unpredictable. Some go for years with the exact same hits, or time of year, and then for no reason, it changes. So far, no one has been able to tell the reason for it. We all have our suspicions, but nothing has been proven.
I applaud your attempts to find something that works, but nothing you have told us so far, has me convinced that your efforts have caused it. The results are too short termed to convince me.
I am also concerned that you refuse to devulge any specifics of what you have tried. This puts a question in my mind as to how valid what you are doing is. We are not dummies on this site, and we need to know facts, yet you refuse to give them. You excuses for not giving them seem flimsy, in my mind. Convince me that you are doing valid research.
I am very open and interested in the homeopathic treatments for this horror, but so far, you have failed to give me any hope.
Chuck
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Tiannia
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #22 on: Nov 18th, 2003, 10:29pm » |
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The only time that I wason magnesium was when I was in labor with my son. I ended up with PIHT (Pregnancy Indused Hyper Tension) and they were trying to keep my bp down while they were inducing me. The highest it hit was 198/162. My kindeys had shut down and they were afraid that I would go into a coma. After I had him, I was on mag for another 24 hours and then they put me on the tabs for 3 weeks until I saw the doc and he felt htat my bp was back to normal.
Sorry not much help in CLusters.
But for me the mag tabs gave me headaches while I was on them. Also, I got really bad cotton/metallic mouth all of the time.
Tia
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violet
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #23 on: Nov 18th, 2003, 10:47pm » |
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Dig Mag!!!! Take it in a bicarbinate powder which has Mag, Calcium and Potassium from a company called Ecological Formulas. I drink it in water at night, puts me to sleep like a baby.
Vi
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12gagueblast
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Re: Magnesium?
« Reply #24 on: Nov 19th, 2003, 2:06am » |
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Chuck I am assuming that you are speaking to me about the research I am refusing to divulge. How can I refuse when nobody has really asked? Didn’t know anyone wanted to know specifics. Here they are. Read cluster sufferers often had low Mg levels. Read that they tried intravenous Mg infusions with some success. Thought this hurts like a bitch. Thought what the heck I’ll try Mg. Tried Mg (see above post). Seemed to help (a lot). Did more research. Typed in “Magnesium Deficiency” at yahoo (try this yourself). Found that the nervous system becomes hyper sensitive to sodium when there is a Mg deficiency. Sodium is what our nerves use to communicate since it is negatively charged. What are they starting to treat us with now anti-convulsants (topomax….). Thought H2O 3x. I have never tried this but some people say it works for them. H2O 3x would flush sodium out of you system (you can die from drinking too much H2O). Another cluster treatment others have used (not myself) is melitonin supplements. When you are Mg deficient you have lower levels of melitonin. Thought could be a connection. Ethanol (drinking alcohol) also reduces Mg levels. When I’m in a cycle if I drink ½ of a beer, it’s instant headache.
I was in the middle of what has over the last 10 years or so always been about an 8 week cycle. The pattern was the same with this one it was going from sucking to being terrible at about 4 weeks the tapers off to me being normal again after about 4 more weeks. I can’t prove that the Mg helped. Spoke with my neurologist and he said if it was psychosomatic or a placebo effect it would wear off in a couple of days. It has been a week now. We can argue the fact that we can not know anything for sure, it is called Nihilism. I am kind of a Nihilist myself, but I don’t think that will help anyone.
I am sorry if I wasn’t forthcoming enough with this information. There are other reason that I think that there may be some kind of link to Mg, but I need to go to bed now if you have any specific questions let me know.
I am also sorry if I came here new and seemed to have a “know it all” attitude. I am very forward and it comes across wrong sometimes. I have suffered for quite some time with CH and was very excited that this seems to be working for me. I thought if it would help someone else I had an obligation to spend time at the keyboard letting others know because as we know this CH thing sucks.
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