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michaelc
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Views from a Protestor
« on: Mar 30th, 2003, 6:39am » |
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Im a peace protestor, and NO supporter of Saddam Huessein. I attend the protests because this IS STILL AMERICA, and i feel my voice is under-represented and SEVERELY distorted by the media.
I have no probs with the soldiers, or them doing their job. I pray for their success and safety.
My gripes are this .... the buildup to this war has been Totally Mismanaged from day one! Nobody is arguing that Hussein should stay in power ... he is a dicator and should be ousted.
Our Great Country (no matter how important we feel we are) is STILL ONLY 7% of the world's Population
and
So if we are a democratic country in a democratic world - we will have 7% say in what happens.
IF we REALLY believe in Democracy (in the USA and globally) then we should adhere to that process and not go if we don't have the votes.
Just as in the situation in Turkey 90% of the population was against us basing operations there ..... so that's life, that's democracy in action. Love it or leave it & become an imperialist, lol.
im not against military action to remove Hussein either ... but geez, why not just keep doubling the inspectors each month for 6 months, send in multinational UN peacekeeping troops to keep em safe and THEN knock off Hussein with a Drone?
The UN/US would already be all over the place to keep the peace and then you don't have to waste troops lives, and destroy the friggin infrastructure with a full scale Invasion.
not to mention we are SCARRING MILLIONS of CIVILLIANS FOR LIFE WITH PTSD from BEING BOMBED for freedom. (sure their lives already suck ... but now it sucks more)
If we ARE so bad ass .... why be so heavy handed,
why not be creative and careful in this internationally delicate situation?
ALSO - how much of the iraqui military is VOLUNTARY? I would imagine quite a few of those "targets" we are killing would RATHER be home with their families, but have been forced to be out there getting blown up. So it sucks for them too ... they are not just Faceless haters of Freedom, they are people too ..... uneducated people living under propoganda for a long time. They have SOULS just like WE do, OK?
If you are a Christian and you believe that humans have souls and are valuable to God, then EVERY CASUALTY, IRAQI or USA should counted as a vote against the success of this war. The more lives lost - the more pointless the war is.
If the true Goal is disarmament and regime change (and not piles of dead iraqis) ..... then total death cont is a side effect by which to measure how efficiently/sloppily we were able to make that happen.
For HALF the cost of the Payoffs to "allies" and the cost of this military campaign ....... we could have given every iraqi citizen 100,000 US$, a water purifier, 10 bags of grain, a microwave and a color sattelite TV that only carries USA propoganda.
Then would they still "hate" us? These trade embargos have simply made the people of iraq more dependent on goverment services for their basic needs and unable to revolt. They are like the hostage victim that starts to be attached to their abductor .... shall we punish them further for this sad fact?
part 2 next .... lol
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| « Last Edit: Mar 30th, 2003, 7:05am by michaelc » |
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michaelc
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #1 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 6:42am » |
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Another post mentioned a story wherein a russian woman asks whats so great about America? and a young woman answers "I can come visit you in your country, can you come visit me in mine?'
Well that's part of how our poorly thought-out reaction to 9-11 has gotten us going entirely backards.
NOW *** NOW *** I can't just go visit that Russian woman and Gloat about my freedom,
UNLESS I subject myself to microscopic inspection, racial profiling, a new Passenger "threat rating" that let's you fly or not depending on "factors not disclosed to the public" lol.
So you cant fly but you dont get to know why ...... just like uh ..... Russia? lol. Maybe even based on the new legal warrantless snooping on what WEBSITES you visit.
Sounds like were not as free as we think? What are we defending again? FREEDOM?
What if just maybe .... just maybe "THEY" already WON? We have lost our guaranteed liberties, our privacy, become isolationalist, pissed off our allies, lost ALL world the sympathy that poured out after 9-11, pissed of the Arab league .... and now were over there freaking out the entire region against the advice of most other developed nations. Maybe this is the kind of Insane, Reckless, Self-destructive reaction that Osama Bin Laden was hoping for ......
check this for some IRONY
"We should not march into Baghdad," George Bush Sr. wrote in his 1998 book, A World Transformed.
"To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us and make a broken tyrant into a latter-day Arab hero...assigning young soldiers to a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war.
"It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability." - President George Bush Senior, 1998.
It's not that simple as "freedom hating terrorists" friggin read some of the reports on Terrorism put out by the Dept of Defense, OK? The motivations are COMPLEX and POLITICAL and mostly have to do with US being over there messing around with their governments for the last 30 years! That's a Fact jack, they don't just blindly hate americans and freedom ..... any more that we sit around Eating apple pie and singing the national anthem all day. If we left them alone and phased out GASOLINE so they werent so rich ... things would change.
the only "freedom" Bush is concerned with is the "freedom" to send Haliburton over there to put out the fires/rebuild and make his pals a big chunk of change ..... Anyone reading this notice ONLY USA companies were considered for the contracts? lol. heh.
So ..... long post. Final Words.
I support the Troops, I support All human Life, but There is more than one way to skin a cat - we can do better than this and should always strive to find NEW WAYS OF SOLVING CONFLICTS ....... I know youre gonna say weve tried everything on Saddam, BUT NO, you have NOT - There are 1billion ways to remove that regime other than haphazzard Invasion.
And remember as this gets worse ..... we attacked first in this one (No - don't say 9-11, that was Osama, not Hussein) , against the advice of others who are normally WITH us! it's the first "pre-emptive" war in modern American history. So 'we' CHOSE to be there, nobody forced us .... the grim results are ENTIRELY our Responsibility.
ok ... flame away, im ready. Beat me to death with american flags if that's what you want. I have reasons for my beliefs just as you do, and my hedaches hurt JUST as bad as YOURS!
~michael c
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| « Last Edit: Mar 30th, 2003, 6:44am by michaelc » |
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thsa/simon
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #2 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 8:43am » |
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Once upon a time it was thought that the world was flat. If left to a vote, it might still be. Don't be fooled into thinking that the majority is right, just as the most powerful isn't always right.
The problem is that we have a global problem at the present time called terrorism. Its just not in the Middle East, it's everywhere. We (the US) have ignored it for the most part and someone finally brought it to OUR shores. Now for the most part, we were content to let others bomb us in foriegn locations (African embassies, USS Cole, etc.) because some silly Americans always say 'well, we shouldn't have been there'. Now that might be true that we shouldn't have been there, but that doesn't justify MURDER. Seems to me, that they didn't want to negotiate resolutions to have us removed. They already feel that death and destruction is the way to play the game, so we have entered the fray. Sorry you don't like it, neither do I, BUT IT IS HOW THE GAME IS BEING PLAYED.
Terrorists cannot make missles; they can't make C4; they can't make biologics and nerve agents (remember the attack in Japan?); they have to have government ties with facilities to make these items or they must BUY them from others. This is a FACT. So now that we have identified a government that is suppling, training, and catering to terrorists we are trying to remove him. We know he has used biologics and chemicals on his own people from the many substanciated reports. Why would you want to leave this guy to the UN?
Let me remind you that the UN has yet TO STOP ANY WAR in its long glorious (insert sarcasm here) history. They are like the parent that thinks you can reason with a two year old. YOU CAN"T. It's like the threat of a spanking that you are never going to go through with. As soon as the child figures that you will NEVER hit them no matter what they do, they do what ever it is they wish.
Now as soon as someone who is against all this can come up with a plan that the other side will agree to we are stuck in this battle to remove a guy that has:
1) shown a desire to invade and occupy other countries,
2) murder his own population with chemicals and biologic agents,
3) condone rape and terror within his own borders by his own personal militia,
4) trained and financed terrorist to operate outside his borders,
5) AND SOME THINGS THAT I STILL CAN'T TELL YOU ABOUT. YOU ALL DON"T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION WITH WHICH TO MAKE A RATIONAL CHOICE.
Let me tell you something, this guys isn't Hitler....he's STALIN. Get out your history books. NOT the ones from 1980-present with the revisionist's politically correct versions; get the ones from 1950-1980. No one could really reason with Stalin either.
So when you all come up with a plan that Hussein will think is a good idea ( NOT JUST YOU THINK IS A GOOD IDEA ), feel free to enlighten all of us who have tried the negotiate peace though resolutions.
I don't mean to offend anyone, but I'm convinced that many just don't get it. This guy doesn't care what you think, he wants you dead. Reason with that!
simon
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BobG
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #3 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 8:44am » |
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michael............
I disagree with almost everything you said but I'm not going to pick it apart. You have the right to say what you did no matter how wrong you are.
But, I have to say this...........DUCK! There's going to be some IN-coming on your head 
Now go to the peace march and start a really big fire, beat the hell out of some pro-Americans and loot a few stores but do it in a peaceful manner.
Have a nice day 
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cbolony
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #4 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 9:03am » |
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michaelc you and all your protestors should go to Iraq
on the front lines and hold up your Stop This War signs.
I will bet you that saddams people will put a bullet in your head.When the first American got killed in action
all you left wingers should get behine the great USA
and stop all the bullshit
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sailpappy
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #5 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 9:36am » |
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;D ;D I enter this thread with a great deal of hesitation,but I must address your point about us only being %7 of the world population, This may be correct, maybe not, however this small percentage, manages to supply humanitarian aide to about %40 of the rest of the world. We are FREE, in the ironical sence that we have self imposed our own restrictions and safeguards on ourselves with Democratic Procedure in a system that is pleagued with coruption at every corner and level of Government.
It works to a %90 degree of effenciency. but as long as there is money involved there will be people that abuse their power.
Your comment about being a Christain should bring to bear the thoughts, born out in the Bible, that the "Yellow Race" will rule the earth. Gee! I wonder who that could refer to? Asia has %73 of the world population and up to now their voices have been muted by regiemes like Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Linen Chairman Mao Tse Sung and the like that Mute their citizens with tactics all similar in methodology, speak out and die! Act out and die! Rebel and Die! Have to many Children and Die!
Are you starting to get it? Did you also protest against Clean nuclear power or are you happy with polluting the world and being dependent on fossile fuels.
I have done the same thing as many ,many thousands, or hundreds of thousands have done in the past, Fought for your right to have an opinion, protesting isn't the problem its ignorance of the reality of the affect of the protest.
If we all had protested instead of defended your many might be a little asian sounding now! Like Asa Hole! JMHO! Pappy
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| « Last Edit: Mar 30th, 2003, 9:38am by sailpappy » |
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don
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #6 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 9:40am » |
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Quote:protesting isn't the problem its ignorance of the reality of the affect of the protest.
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BINGO !
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catlind
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #7 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 9:59am » |
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I must say michael, you have alot of guts to post that. I respect your courage to speak and act on your constitutional rights. I think you are dead wrong, but I respect your right to do so.
Simon, you are so very right about all the things that the general population simply doesn't know. It's a shame we can't know it, but it's for the safety of lives that we can't.
You cannot reason with a man that has to squat and lean on his left foot to shit.
Cat
addendum:
How much do you know about persia and messapotamia (never could spell that right)? How far back does your history go? Iraqis are a highly educated and cultured people.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 30th, 2003, 10:01am by catlind » |
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tanner
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #8 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 11:13am » |
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micheal, you seem like a bright enough guy but what part of Don't divide our public assets like police just to get your 15 minutes of fame don't you get.
this should be a no brainer even for someone so obvoiusly lacking in the REAL LIFE understaning of how the world operates. I would wager that you and your kind would be the first to scream and cry foul if you get sniped by a dc sniper type or blown up by a suicide bomber while innocently sitting around with your martin sheen type lefty friends deciding where next to disrupt our lives!
QUIT USING UP OUR POLICE AND HOME DEFENSE ASSETS WHEN WE NEED THEM MOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and when the current crisis is over i for one will be happy to debate your views on Freedom and Democracy and what they mean globally.
in the meantime be careful what streets you lie down in with your peace signs, cuz i'm a real shitty driver........
tim
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| « Last Edit: Mar 30th, 2003, 11:15am by tanner » |
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Ted
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #9 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 11:31am » |
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I don't know if anyone knows this but I too am against this war. However, like Bob I too disagree with most of your post, Michael. And I agree with quite a bit of what Simon said here. One thing I disagree with Simon about is the assertion he made about Iraq training and supplying terrorists. Bush was asked quite often to supply information on this by the UN (and Americans) and he, via Powell, had nothing to supply. Don't you think if there was some proof of that and it wasn't just an unbacked accusation repeated daily until people started believing it because it WAS repeated everyday, that, if not the world, most of us against this war, would be completely for the war?
Another thing that gets repeated over and over again is we don't remember or care about 9-11. That's so lame I'll let the ridiculousness of the statement fall on its own lack of legs.
And a question for you, Michael. As far as only acting when the UN sanctions it, well, the UN (including the US) officially condemned Israel years ago for destroying an Iraqi nuclear plant that was making atomic bombs. SInce then the world has thanked Israel for what it did. Countries do have to do what they need to do to protect their safety, even if it flies in the face of the world. The problem is there's no evidence to show that's what we're doing here. If there was most of us would be for this war.
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nancyc
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #10 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 1:23pm » |
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This is a personal post from a military son's mom....STFU...at this point, i am against anyone protesting this war...NO, I hate war and so does everyone else here...but we are at war...every word you say, everything you do affects our sons and daughter's moral over there in Iraq....my son just called ..he is in the national guard..he shipped out to train in kentucky...he will be going to Kuwait around april 17th...he has a few short weeks to train to kill...they are failing all of their battle tests ...but they are still being shipped out...they are sending untrained men and women into war...but when I ask my son did he believe in what he is doing...HE said...YES...I am going to fight for my COUNTRY...so STFU .....if you care about the lives of our soldiers , then give them some postive strokes instead of negative ones..Do I want my son to go over there...Hell, NO...but I respect my son and I believe in my Country...as politically ignorant as I am, I do have enough sense to know that all the protests are effecting our soldiers....nancyc
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| « Last Edit: Mar 30th, 2003, 1:27pm by nancyc » |
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Ree
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #11 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 2:51pm » |
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Michael.......ditto i disagree with you... another mom here and part of a HUGE military ancestry... can I ask you a question... Would you defend yourself if someone was trying to take your life, or the life of any member of your family, or would you idly sit by and let it happen? We know of the atrosities as well as those that happened in Germany long ago... this time we are reacting. Protest away Im glad your not my kid... and would proudly go to Iraq myself if it meant my kid could come home...
Nancy you are in a panic!!! Of course they are not going to let him fight untrained hon... please dont panic. Your son is in great hands here. If not here he will be with seasoned people once he deploys... It will take him another month to get there by ship he is leaving on 4/17 you said... so that takes us to the midst of May... by then, hopefully he will be assisting in rebuilding whatever government is left and cooking for a bunch of happy to be alive men... My son was deployed a month ago and is just arriving this week... One Day AT A TIME Nancy.... like Sean said breathe and think of those there now and pray for them... love ya girly girl... but dont let this michael c guy think that we dont have things under control... be proud you did good kid! Your son is a hero... love ya me
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catlind
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #12 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 3:25pm » |
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Nancy, Ree,
Fear not. We've got your backs. There is no one here that would DARE intentionally, or directly stand in your face. They would have nothing left to protest with if they did.
Stand proud, you are wondeful mothers.
Cat
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thsa/simon
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #13 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 3:33pm » |
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Ted,
Unfortunately, to divulge what info we have linking saddam to terrorists would make evident how we got it and then that door of information would close. I know this sounds like a rather lame excuse, but it is true nonetheless.
During WWII, we had broken the axis code but had to pretend we didn't know of plans to keep that a secret. Many people died because we didn't act on information we had. Its not a thing that anyone can be proud of, but keeping the fact that we had broken the code a secret did save lives in the long run.
I sometimes wish I could yell out all the stuff that I know to convince some people that what we are doing is right IN THE LONG RUN, but I can't even tell my wife.
Just know, that I sleep well at night (when Im not having clusters.....and THAT we all know about =P)
simon
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fubar
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #14 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 3:46pm » |
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Ted,
On the subject of disclosing intelligence (evidence)...
Quote:| Don't you think if there was some proof of that and it wasn't just an unbacked accusation repeated daily until people started believing it because it WAS repeated everyday, that, if not the world, most of us against this war, would be completely for the war? |
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[snip] In one breath, Americans complain that we don't have enough 'intelligence' to stop terrorist attacks. In the next breath, they complain that the intelligence machine refuses to disclose sources of information. Maybe the American public is just a little too thick to understand that you can't have it both ways. Sure, you can have great intelligence machines that could possibly be misused (the great fear) or you could have no intelligence and be 100% reactionary to threats (after the fact).
Part of me thinks the French were so forthright demanding the hard evidence from the intelligence community because *they* want to know our capabilitites and level of penetration in certain places. Even disclosing images is a tricky business. You really don't want the world to know exactly how capable our satellites are, do you?
Maybe you have no clue what it takes to develop HUMINT in countries like Iraq. Imagery and communications intelligence can only give you so much, and even then, when it becomes obvious that those have been compromised, the enemy shifts tactics. Letting the world know what we know lets the enemy know how and who is leaking it, thereby compromising your own assets. We know plenty, and some of what we know would be hard to explain to the public, I'm sure. Doing so would also compromise the assets in place, leaving us even more vulnerable than we are now.
Michael... although I consider you to be misguided, I'm sure your heart is in the right place. And, just because I consider you to be misguided, it's not necessarily so. It is still a free country, thank God.
[snip]
-Fu
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| « Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2003, 11:15pm by fubar » |
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jonny
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #15 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 3:57pm » |
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on Mar 30th, 2003, 3:46pm, fubar wrote:
And Ted, I don't mean to imply that you are an idiot just because I pick on one idiotic statement (from such a wide selection )-Fu |
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LMMFYBO!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
................................jonny
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kissmyglass
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #16 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 4:04pm » |
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I'm ROTFLMAO Fubar.... ;D
Kev C
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michaelc
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #17 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 4:20pm » |
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Well, I can't believe NOBODY even commented on the George Bush Sr. Quote ...... I thought it was very Interesting.
Question: would I defend myself If attacked? Yes - of course, but would I also ...... go over onto their private property and beat them up, kill them, burn down their house, and then rebuild the house?
Anyway my response to all the flame is simply what I ended that post with ---
Quote:| I support the Troops, I support All human Life, but There is more than one way to skin a cat - we can do better than this and should always strive to find NEW WAYS OF SOLVING CONFLICTS ....... I know youre gonna say weve tried everything on Saddam, BUT NO, you have NOT - There are 1 billion ways to remove that regime other than haphazzard Invasion. |
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Threaten me all you want (might makes right huh?).... keep on flaming ...... you guys probably think that FOX news is fair and unbiased, lol. But I wish you all the BEST luck in winning your personal WAR (against the BEAST) ~michael
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jonny
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #18 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 4:29pm » |
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on Mar 30th, 2003, 4:20pm, michaelc wrote:
Threaten me all you want (might makes right huh?).... keep on flaming ...... you guys probably think that FOX news is fair and unbiased, lol. But I wish you all the BEST luck in winning your personal WAR (against the BEAST) ~michael |
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from what I read nobody threatened you.
What you are seeing is people speaking their mind just like you did.......got a prob with that?
Me?....I say kill everyone with a towel on thier head.
........................................jonny
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WendyHowe
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #19 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 4:36pm » |
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Michael
I think you make some fair points but are terribly naive. You suggest that we should not have gone to war, rather that we should have put a lid on things and assassinated Saddam. Do you really think you are the first person to think this. Also, do you really think that it has been thought of but decided against. Do you really think Bush and Blair are so insane that they prefer to go to war and kill thousands.
Wake up.......
There have been consistent efforts to 'do away' with Saddam for years, efforts made by his own people and special forces from 'other countries'. One of the main reasons why we are now at war is because all attempts failed. Whilst this has been going on he has been growing in strength and gaining more support, allies and resources. He became too dangerous to leave alone, and seemingly too teflon-clad to be killed.
I personally don't believe GB and TB are insane, nor power crazed. They are not wasting lives needlessly, they saw no other realistic option.
I send my best wishes to our own board Mum's of service people, and all other Mum's out there on Mother's Day.
Wendy
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cathy
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #20 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 4:46pm » |
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on Mar 30th, 2003, 4:36pm, WendyHowe wrote:
I send my best wishes to our own board Mum's of service people, and all other Mum's out there on Mother's Day.
Wendy |
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Ditto....
Cathy 
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Mark C
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #21 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 4:49pm » |
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fubar
CH.com Alumnus
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #22 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 4:50pm » |
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Michael wants a comment on the Bush Sr. quote...
Before I get to that, what makes you think people are threatening you? This is a discussion, and you have a right to your opinion. I thought it was extremely brave of yourself to post your views, knowing it would result in posts to the contrary, and possibly personal attacks. But I did not see anybody threaten you. Get over yourself.
Secondly, George Bush (the father) is not the President now, nor was he President in 1998. He does not get briefs from the NSA, FBI, CIA or other agencies. He does not have access to intelligence that might sway him one way or the other. Before you assume that George W. is briefing his dad, you need to remember that would be an enormous security breach. Some information is for the President only, regardless.
So, my comment is this. Bush needs and wants to explain why he did not finish Saddam off 12 years ago. He does not make or affect US policy with his current views. Regardless, I could find hundreds of quotes that seem contradictory if taken out of context. That comment was specifically in the context of justifying his previous actions, in my opinion.
Most of your statements weren't worth debating. I don't care if the Iraqi soldiors are voluntary or not. They need to surrender or be killed. Pretty damn simple. They are the ones in control of their life. They can avoid all of this by standing up and helping take out the Ba'ath regime. If they do not, they will suffer. It seems to me they have a choice. We have done everyting possible to minimize civilian casualties.
As for who gets contracts to rebuild... [snip]. Who is paying for the USA to rid the world of this evil dictator? I suppose we should let the French have all the rebuilding contracts, right? Or, are you assuming Iraq has that capability and we are 'forcing' them to allow American compainies to rebuild for them. Ugh.
[snip]
-Fu
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| « Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2003, 11:17pm by fubar » |
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"He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Lori
New Board Hall of Famer
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #23 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 5:27pm » |
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I LOVE Fox News!! It's so nice to have a news outlet I can trust!
on Mar 30th, 2003, 4:20pm, michaelc wrote:Well, I can't believe NOBODY even commented on the George Bush Sr. Quote ...... I thought it was very Interesting.
Question: would I defend myself If attacked? Yes - of course, but would I also ...... go over onto their private property and beat them up, kill them, burn down their house, and then rebuild the house?
Anyway my response to all the flame is simply what I ended that post with ---
Threaten me all you want (might makes right huh?).... keep on flaming ...... you guys probably think that FOX news is fair and unbiased, lol. But I wish you all the BEST luck in winning your personal WAR (against the BEAST) ~michael |
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Blessings and PFDAN,
Lori
Psalm 23:4 ~ Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
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jimmers
CH.com Alumnus
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Hello GOD! The gene pool needs some chlorine!
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Re: Views from a Protestor
« Reply #24 on: Mar 30th, 2003, 6:13pm » |
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Simon/Fubar
Great retorts,  but lets remember: It is not fair to battle wits with unarmed people. ;D
Seeya,
Jimbo
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I don't suffer from INSANITY; I'm enjoying every minute of it!
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