Author |
Topic: What "America" means (Read 706 times) |
|
Donna
New Board Newbie
Gender: 
Posts: 2
|
 |
What "America" means
« on: Oct 28th, 2002, 11:58am » |
 Quote  Modify
|
I think everyone on this planet needs to read this. This was sent by a 78 year old. The thoughts are pure and we all understand the point...
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
There are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some native Americans, need to understand. First of all, it is not our responsibility to continually try not to offend you in any way. This idea of America being a multi cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language, and our own lifestyle. This culture, called the "American Way" has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. Our forefathers fought, bled, and died at places such as Bunker Hill, Antietam, San Juan, Iwo Jima, Normandy, Korea, Vietnam...
We speak English, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society - learn our language!"
In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan - it is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the House of Representatives, in our Capitol and it is printed on our currency. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation and this is clearly documented throughout our history. If it is appropriate for our motto to be inscribed in the halls of our highest level of Government, then it is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.
God is in our pledge, our National Anthem, nearly every patriotic song, and in our founding documents. We honor His birth, death, and resurrection as holidays, and we turn to Him in prayer in times of crisis. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture and we are proud to have Him.
We are proud of our heritage and those who have so honorably defended our freedoms. We celebrate Independence Day, Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and Flag Day. We have parades, picnics, and barbecues where we proudly wave our flag.
As an American, I have the right to wave my flag, sing my national anthem, quote my national motto, and cite my pledge whenever and wherever I choose. If the Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.
The American culture is our way of life, our heritage, and we are proud of it. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. Like it or not, this is our country, our land, and our lifestyle.
Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion about our government, culture, or society, and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom: THE RIGHT TO LEAVE!
Another thing: To those who do complain about the usage of words like 'God' and 'American' and speaking the language of our great nation, TRY GOING TO ANOTHER COUNTRY AND SPEAK AGAINST WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE. YOU WILL MORE THAN LIKELY END UP JAILED OR EVEN KILLED.
In America, you take your right to complain for granted. The more patriotism that is removed from where our children are taught, the less our children will learn about what it is to be an American and our nation's spirit will slowly be taken away.
|
|
 IP Logged |
|
|
|
marty
New Board Old Timer
 
Gender: 
Posts: 322
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #1 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 12:09pm » |
Quote Modify
|
That post made me feel really good, as a matter of fact - it made my day
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Marty
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
captdshea
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Junior
Gender:
Posts: 79
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #2 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 12:17pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Amen, justice for all..
David
|
|
IP Logged |
"Seek knowledge and truth"
"Respect divergent points of view"
|
|
|
Ted
New Board Newbie
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Gender:
Posts: 1
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #3 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 1:17pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 28th, 2002, 11:58am, Donna wrote:... In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan - it is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the House of Representatives, in our Capitol and it is printed on our currency. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation and this is clearly documented throughout our history. If it is appropriate for our motto to be inscribed in the halls of our highest level of Government, then it is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.
God is in our pledge, our National Anthem, nearly every patriotic song, and in our founding documents. We honor His birth, death, and resurrection as holidays, and we turn to Him in prayer in times of crisis. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture and we are proud to have Him.... |
|
Much of this was xenophobic claptrap (I especially liked the way it addresses American Indians and later says if you don't like it go back to where you came from.) but I'll just get into the part quoted above. Then, not believing Jesus had any divinity to him, I guess I'll move to another country since this is the God alluded to most here. Should I unbury the people quoted below, you know... our founding fathers, and take them with me?
ARTICLE 11
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, -- as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-- and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religous opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. "[John Adams, 1797-05-27, Article 11, Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the US and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary. Treaties and Other International Acts of America, ed. Hunter Miller]
The government of the United States is in not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion -- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."[Benjamin Franklin, in 'Toward The Mystery']
I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."[Thomas Jefferson]
The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the sun -- Thomas Paine
I disbelieve in all holy men and holy books -- Thomas Paine
9) The Christian god is cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust -- Thomas Jefferson
13) All national institutions of churches-whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish-appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit -- Thomas Paine
The Christian theory is little less than the idolatry of the ancient mythologies, accommodated to the purposes of power and revenue; and it yet remains to reason and philosophy to abolish the amphibious fraud -- Thomas Paine
The "divinity" of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity -- John Adams
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstitions of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded in fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites, to support roguery and error all over the earth -- Thomas Jefferson
Democracy does not need the church, or the clergy -- James Madison
Religion is a matter which belongs to the church, and not to the state -- George Washington
And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classified with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter -- Thomas Jefferson
It does me no injlury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg -- Thomas Jefferson
Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish witht eh same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects? -- James Madison
History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes -- Thomas Jefferson
The question is whether the God of nature will govern the world by his own laws or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles -- John Adams
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Donna
New Board Newbie
Gender:
Posts: 2
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #4 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 1:28pm » |
Quote Modify
|
You know, I express my beliefs freely and do not mean to offend anyone.
Ted is a friend of mine and if he wants to make a post contrary to mine, that's ok with me.
Just as you may. We don't need to argue about this. We don't need to take offense. We are entitled to our own opinions.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Ted
New Board Newbie
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Gender:
Posts: 1
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #5 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 1:41pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Stomping out the sparks before they get blown into the forests fallen, dried leaves Donna? 
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Donna
New Board Newbie
Gender:
Posts: 2
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #6 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 1:50pm » |
Quote Modify
|
You got it sweetie. Always did believe in prophylactics.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Charlie
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Happy to be here
    
Gender:
Posts: 14968
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #7 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 7:24pm » |
Quote Modify
|
This is a great place because we were founded by people who were products of The Age of Reason. They also did not seek to blame others for things that made them uncomfortable. Most of those who write these tirades do. Although Jefferson, in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity. Contrary to TV preachers, our founding fathers were not at all bible thumpers.
Ted beat me to it but here are a few more quotes:
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do---Ben Franklin
This one is appropriate for today's current events:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."--Ben Franklin
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law---Jefferson
The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion--As Ted said: The Treaty of Tripoli. Also by George Washington
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear--Jefferson
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty--Jefferson
Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law--Thomas Paine
In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people--James Madison
"There is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution. It is a lie of the Left and we are not going to take it anymore." --Pat Robertson
The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries--James Madison
One of these last two men is essentially responsible for the Bill Of Rights, which guarantees freedom of religion
Charlie
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 28th, 2002, 7:26pm by Charlie » |
IP Logged |
There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
|
|
|
Charlie
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Happy to be here
Gender:
Posts: 14968
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #8 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 7:39pm » |
Quote Modify
|
"In God We Trust" is a recent invention and did not appear on our coinage until the Civil War. It disappeared after a time and didn't reappear until the 1909 Lincoln penny--and then wasn't used on all coins until much later.
You didn't expect me to let that one go, did you?
Charlie
|
|
IP Logged |
There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
|
|
|
Not4Hire
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
...WAS PF since Oct.'02, but ...oh my...(CBusters)
Gender:
Posts: 1190
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #9 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 7:58pm » |
Quote Modify
|
"TANSTAAFL"........ Robert Heinlein --July 7th, 1907--May 8th, 1988 R.I.P.
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 28th, 2002, 7:59pm by Not4Hire » |
IP Logged |
Mantra: This will NOT kill me...This will not KILL me... This will not kill ME...
|
|
|
BobG
New Board Hall of Famer
Gender:
Posts: 5747
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #10 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 8:04pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Me thinks there are certain things that should not be discussed in polite company.
1. binder, aka cheese
2. Monica Lewinsky
3. religion
Paine, Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Washington, Franklin....... I'm not going to doubt their place in history but, the quotes above are only their personal opinions. Not facts.
|
|
IP Logged |
Stay stressed. Never relax. Never sleep. Ever.
|
|
|
catlind
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Taz taught me the cluster dance
Gender:
Posts: 3433
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #11 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 8:20pm » |
Quote Modify
|
As I am a Canadian Citizen awaiting my US citizenship, I can only say this (and I can't even quote it exactly....haven't been studying for my test hehe)
In the bill of rights citizens are granted freedom of religion. This also means freedom FROM religion if a person so chooses. It is that FREEDOM that America means to me. The right to choose and the rights granted me by the bill of rights, the constitution and declaration of independance. FREEDOM is what America is about to me, and it's that freedom that my husband, and many other CH'ers children, spouses, parents and CHers themselves have fought for.
Cat
|
|
IP Logged |
A true friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart
If yer gonna be stupid, ya gotta be tough
|
|
|
Opus
New Board Hall of Famer
(Insert witty comment here)
Gender:
Posts: 2509
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #12 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 8:30pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Isn't it a great country where Donna, Ted, Charlie, and Catlind (I'm not sure what Notforhire ment) All are correct becouse that is their point of view and no one can legally take it from them. If all the non christians were to leave this country it would be pretty empty. Thats why other countries are sending missionaries here. PJB
|
|
IP Logged |
Zed-Zed-nine plural-Zed alpha,
There is no place like home.
|
|
|
Charlie
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Happy to be here
Gender:
Posts: 14968
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #13 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 8:33pm » |
Quote Modify
|
You may be right Bob. It's just that I'm weary of the Pat Robertsons of the avaricious TV preacher community, and other self-righteous folk, using our founders as exemplars of single-minded intolerance. They were anything but. What Ted and I have quoted is important stuff, and in my mind a way to defend what they created for us.
By the way, I agree that one should learn English as well. I also don't mind religious displays in the town square. Suing people at Christmas is stupid. You want that commandment thing on the walls? That's not something that overly upsets me either. I'm not crazy about it, but they've made it moot because of the very lunatics who use it for political reasons.
Don't get me started!  Oh, too late...... 
Charlie
|
|
IP Logged |
There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
|
|
|
BobG
New Board Hall of Famer
Gender:
Posts: 5747
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #14 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 9:37pm » |
Quote Modify
|
When Donna started this string I said to myself "Heeree's Charlie and Ted! It's show time!" ;D
You both put up a good argument for the atheists and agnostics viewpoint. And your research to find what some dead guys said is admirable. Good show.
I also have a big problem with the Pat Robertsons of the avaricious TV preacher community. They do not represent Christians. They support the church of "Show me the Money".
Catlind.......welcome to America and hope you soon get your citizenship completed. I find it amazing that the people that want to come here study and learn our history and those that hate this country the most are the ones that know very little history but will not leave.
|
|
IP Logged |
Stay stressed. Never relax. Never sleep. Ever.
|
|
|
Charlie
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Happy to be here
Gender:
Posts: 14968
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #15 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 10:23pm » |
Quote Modify
|
You see Bob, it’s our job to keep this fascist bunch on their toes. I figger you can watch just so much Oliver North on the Faux Network
Be glad Ted is here. I’d be even worse and he writes better.
Back to my Saddam Hussein fund raiser.
Charlie 
|
|
IP Logged |
There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
|
|
|
Ted
New Board Newbie
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Gender:
Posts: 1
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #16 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 10:48pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I certainly hope I didn't offend anybody by showing that this country is NOT based upon a bunch of Christian founding fathers, but critical thinkers. But I know I did and keep going back to "so what"? I'm afraid our forefathers were not a bunch of Christian folk who based this country upon it. I am sick, to death, of every Jesus-freak comment being said here and it being accepted. On the old board I was called a devil who is going to be sent to hell for not believing in Christianity. I let that go then. As for now? No. I am tired of this Jesus shit and am tired of all the believers either justifying why I won't get sent to hell because I'm a nice guy or for what ever reason. This Jesus shit is crap. You all want to sit there and praise it online all the time? That's cool. But Jesus was just another human being. Nothing more and nothing less. He was born of a woman who didn't want to get stoned to death for being adultrous. Not a virgin.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
BobG
New Board Hall of Famer
Gender:
Posts: 5747
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #17 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 10:48pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Charlie, there is one preacher that I can put up with. Can't remember his first name but the last is Copeland. He preaches and says send money but he does have a sense of humor about God and the Good Book.
Screw Ollie.
Ted, you certainly didn't offend me. I'm a Christain and you're not. That's ok with me. You fight the good fight for your side, that's cool. It's better than feeling offended and saying nothing.
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 28th, 2002, 10:55pm by BobG » |
IP Logged |
Stay stressed. Never relax. Never sleep. Ever.
|
|
|
Ted
New Board Newbie
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Gender:
Posts: 1
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #18 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 11:00pm » |
Quote Modify
|
That's the thing Bob. there is no side. There's just belief.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Jarvis
New Board Old Timer
Gender:
Posts: 251
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #19 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 11:32pm » |
Quote Modify
|
If my memory serves me right folks a good number of the peoples that were on the founding side of this country were here to escape religion and religous persecutions. Our country was founded so that all could be free and say, believe and feel as we wish. And to all of you I say, you and your opinions are who we are. CAN I GET AN AMEN!
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 28th, 2002, 11:45pm by Jarvis » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
forgetfulnot
Guest
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #20 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 11:37pm » |
Quote Modify
 Remove
|
You folk's are very knowlegable about this subject, but WTF has any of this got to do with?
Running for the shower,
Lee
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
BobG
New Board Hall of Famer
Gender:
Posts: 5747
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #21 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 11:48pm » |
Quote Modify
|
It has to do with What "America" means
as in the heading at the top of the string.
|
|
IP Logged |
Stay stressed. Never relax. Never sleep. Ever.
|
|
|
norma
Guest
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #22 on: Oct 29th, 2002, 12:05am » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
ok guys i guess i will be among the bad ones too! I was raised a Lutheran went to church every sunday with the folks, hubby baptist did the same thing has family members that are preachers and etc,
however i am a firm believer that life is what you make it, and there a many contradictions in the bible, and were any of you around when all the world was created?NO, so each and every one of us has the right to either believe or no believe and to have opinions, yea i wonder what happens after you die, but who the hell says there is a heaven or hell can anyone show prove that is living now?
we are all either sufferers or supporters of these damn these damn clusters and in my opinion whether you believe or not, then maybe if you do believe you wouldnt suffer from them, hell i dont know, i was under the impression this board is for all people to express opinions, not be catrasized sorry i know i spelt that wrong, and to help each other.
i personally happen to be grateful to ted, and all of you, but let each of us have opinions and not be so damn mean or holier than thou!!
after all life is what you make of it and whether you believe or disbelieve i dont think it makes you a better person, a richer person or a person with better luck, we are all the same, so have a happy week no matter what you believe in and just take each day as it comes, i have had more than my fair share of shit in my life, but i dont think it has to do with any of the god stuff
people will be people from now until we are all long gone, and my kids have the right to their opinions as well i dont hold that against anyone, but dont chastise anyone either
i am thankful i am in america, and thankful for our freedom and rights, but i talk to foreigner all day, and unfortunaly they think they are god, so let them, unless they decide to do great damager like 9/11
get over it everyone has the beliefs and opinions and that is what makes the world go round and round,
love to all
believer and nonbelievers
norma
p.s, ted and charlie have my kudos
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Charlie
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Happy to be here
Gender:
Posts: 14968
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #23 on: Oct 29th, 2002, 12:17am » |
Quote Modify
|
I've seen Copeland. None of them are my cup of mead. Give me a black Baptist any day. They know WTF they're doing.
From the Vulgate to the King James, the “good book” has been reworked over centuries to please politicians who like to keep the peasants out of their hair and been used to justify the deaths of millions.
Being a Christian is fine. The thing is, I don’t insist on your joining the fold. Somewhere along the line, someone inserted this cool idea that has resulted in a 2,000 year bloodbath.
As was once said: I desire to go to Hell, not to Heaven. In Hell I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings and princes, but in Heaven are only beggars, monks, hermits and apostles.
Free Inquiring Old Charlie
|
|
IP Logged |
There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
|
|
|
BobG
New Board Hall of Famer
Gender:
Posts: 5747
|
|
Re: What "America" means
« Reply #24 on: Oct 29th, 2002, 12:33am » |
Quote Modify
|
Hey norma..........
I see you're a new kid on the block. Welcome. Glad you jumped right in a had your say. We need people like you that will speak up.
Being a non-believer doesn't make you one of the bad ones. Ted and Charlie aren't the bad ones either. They speak up and tell it like they see it.
Hey Charlie........
I agree with the black Baptist thing. The music in the church I attend is so boring that I fall asleep. I suggested they get some tambourines and throw out a Hallelujah now and then. They said I was a heathen.
And you're right, more people have died in the name of God than any other reason in the history of the world.
About going to Hell.......there will also be politicians, lawyers and Pat Robertson. No thanks.
|
|
IP Logged |
Stay stressed. Never relax. Never sleep. Ever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Home
Help
Search
Members
Member Map
Login
Register
Reply
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print
test rss